I'm new to letterboxing and am wanting some suggestions on how to be descreet when finding a letterbox on a very busy trail in the summer when we start stamping in? My next one is when clues say look for a "V" tree, does that mean 2 tree trunks growing out of the ground together or 1 trunk growing out of the ground then forming 2 trunks?

Okay, I'll start.

One way to be discreet is to wait until there are no other people around, grab the box, and then move to a somewhat different location to actually stamp in. A bench or picnic table, perhaps, a little ways down the trail. Or if those aren't handy, just move to some other location on the trail so that if you do attract the attention of muggles at least they won't know where the box is hidden. Be ready with an answer if somebody asks you what you're doing. Do you have kids? If so, it's easy to say you're working on a craft project. Have your phone or a camera out and say you're taking pictures. Or journaling. Whatever, just have something you can say.

As for the V tree, it could be either. Or it could be a tree with a V carved in it. Letterboxing clues can be creative. There are no hard and fast rules. That's the fun and the charm and one reason so many of us are addicted.

Welcome to letterboxing!

I'm new to letterboxing and am wanting some suggestions on how to be descreet when finding a letterbox on a very busy trail in the summer when we start stamping in?

Always try to grab the box when no one is around. Sometimes other members of the group can provide a distraction, or a sort of "screen" to keep someone passing by from seeing what you're doing. If you don't think it can be done without being seen, it might be good to wait until a less busy day/time. I was startled unexpectedly by someone I didn't see coming one day, who asked loudly "What are you doing???" I replied that I was looking for mushrooms, but having no luck. I might add, it's always good to take the box a little ways up or down the trail to stamp in, so that if you are seen by curious eyes, and they go back to see what you were doing, they are not in the right location, and less likely to stumble across the box. If you are asked what you are doing in the process of stamping in, a good answer in this case is "Working on an art project".

My next one is when clues say look for a "V" tree, does that mean 2 tree trunks growing out of the ground together or 1 trunk growing out of the ground then forming 2 trunks?

It could mean either, but I would interpret it as two trunks appearing to be attached at the ground. I would refer to the other one as a ""Y" tree . . . . but different folks see things differently.

If it's a generally busy area and you need to pull a box without them noticing you (and it won't help to wait), it's good to have a plan. One easy way is to have a camera or cell phone for taking photos and pretend you're taking pictures of mossy rocks or lichens or whatever. If someone asks, you can always make something up, like it's for a photography class. The problem is that some people like to stand there and chat, and never leave (especially when you box by yourself, it's like an invitation to chat), and sometimes you don't find the box right away and need to poke around, so that's when I say I'm looking for snakes.

Here are some things we have done to be discreet (some work better with trail buddies):
- taking photos
- looking at or discussing trail map until people pass
- stop to eat snacks
- play Frisbee and "accidentally" send Frisbee into letterbox area (when we needed to go behind bushes in a park)
- picking up trash (I usually keep a plastic grocery bag in my pack)

Most of the time you just have to wait for people to leave or in one case, wait until they were too busy kissing.

-dogs provide great cover.

-dogs provide great cover.

Mine do for finding, but not at ALL for stamping in. Though lately not even so much for the finding as I am trying to drag them in the woods with me to seek and they want to stay on the path and are trying to drag me back out. That being said, the dogs don't really box with me anymore!!

I have stopped and just stared up into the treetops before. Then people just think I'm bird watching. Or crazy... maybe that. I've also claimed to have seen a lizard run behind a tree, and I've taken a lot of pictures I later deleted.

If the box is far enough in the woods I'll plop right there and stamp in. Quite often I can stay quiet enough that people walk by and never know I am there.

And for the V tree- look around. You'll know it when you see it. :) once I had to look for something like a snake tree. Had NO idea until I knew I should have been close and when I saw it, I knew right away I was in the right spot. :) Sometimes there might be more than one V tree of course, but hopefully the clues lead you to the exact one, or close enough to it :)

I second the other suggestions about how to be discreet when there are people around. One other thing I have to add is that discretion is important even when there's no one else there--hide your traces! If you have to go off-trail for a letterbox, try not to trample foliage, and hide your footprints if they are visible. Don't leave any signs that there might be something interesting behind that tree.

Just last week I had an interesting test of my track-hiding abilities when a friend wanted to go letterboxing in about six inches of fresh snow. There were quite a few of us in the group, so it was particularly difficult to brush off our footprints. (My friend suggested that next time, we should bring a bottle of water with yellow food coloring to sprinkle near the site, so that anyone in the future who saw the footprints leading off trail would draw a different conclusion about what we had been doing.) Fortunately, we just got a storm that dumped several more inches of snow over everything and hid any footprints we didn't manage to cover up.

looking for snakes

That's awesome!

All of the above are excellent answers. But we have found that when people happen along as we are in the middle of either looking or stamping and ask us directly,"What are you doing?", the best answer that seems to satisfy them and gets them to go on their way is,"We are on a scavenger hunt".

But sometimes no matter how discrete one is, the box still goes missing. That is why the best policy is not planting on a busy trail in the first place. A well chosen hiding place is essential.

My friend uses the, we are on a scavenger hunt, a lot and it seems to always work. We got caught once box in hand by this woman who came out of nowhere. She thought we were doing drugs, so it seemed best to break the silence and show her the contents of the box. I dont think we converted her to letterboxing, but she was satisfied and left us alone. The box is still there. There are no hard and fast rules, but just use good judgement.

re: stealth
Someone on the boards once said something that stuck with me for awhile, but I don't remember who. They basically intimated that if they were hunting for a box that was poorly hidden, they were under no obligation to keep it secret and if someone asked about it, they'd 'fess up and had no obligation to protect a crappy hide. Bothered me and stuck with me all this time. I believe the circumstances were an urban hide. It seems the better part is not seeking it in the first place and that by going for it, you've sort of signed off on the idea that you can retrieve it covertly. Poorly thought-out hides should be rewarded with an absence of visitors.

Once we told someone who inquired that we were doing a scavenger hunt. Turns out she was a docent of the park and we then engaged in a 30-minute conversation about the flora, fauna and features of the park, all while she stood 2 feet from the box!!

Pretend you need to tee-tee.

As a reminder: You need to be discreet when finding or rehiding a box, but not when stamping in. As long as you're far enough from the hiding spot (which you should always be, you never know when a noxer will come along) you can tell anyone who asks exactly what you're doing. The hiding place is classified info, the hobby of letterboxing is not.

When we've looked for a "V" tree on several different clues thats what threw us off was what their idea of a "V" tree exactly was plus there were several in that area. Needless to say us being amatures we never found the boxes :( And this one trail has alot of letterboxes on it plus its very busy in the spring and summer. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice from everyone!!

You can always ask the planters for help or guidance with their clues. I generally respond with whatever assistance I can give, especially for new boxers. As long as you're polite, you won't offend anyone in your area & most (if not all--I can't think right off hand of anyone who wouldn't) of us will gladly help you. We're always glad to have new boxers in north Georgia!

It's when people are rude that help is not offered (and yes, some people do get very, very ugly!)

Welcome to the hobby!

...plus there were several in that area.

Obviously, you're supposed to check all of them!

To me, a "V" tree splits into two trunks right at ground level. If it splits farther up, it's a "Y" tree.

It's when people are rude that help is not offered (and yes, some people do get very, very ugly!)

I've had people, on the trail, whip out their cell phones and call me up at my house to ask for help finding a box.

How much help they're gonna get depends. Fact is, if they figure it out on their own they're going to enjoy the box a lot more than if I just give it away. If the clues are supposed to be challenging I normally won't offer any help. I actually had one boxer thank me profusely for not helping him when he asked; when he finally figured it out he understood why I didn't offer help and why it was so much better that he figure it out for himself. OTOH, if the clues are not supposed to be challenging, he's just gotten hung up on some simple misunderstanding, I'll try to put him straight.

Then there was the infamous "Turn right at sign" being misinterpreted as "Go right on past the sign" debacle. There was nothing I could do about that.

Just recently I had a guy submit a rather confusing find report. After some back-and-forth discussion, come to find out that he didn't understand one of the clues -- in fact, he still wanted to know what it meant. It was difficult to explain, since it was so plainly obvious that you wonder what the confusion was. But he had found the box, which turned out to be a matter of brute force, basically checking everything in the vicinity. He apparently got lucky in finding the trail at all, although he started at the wrong end. His find log was expressing some displeasure at the imprecision of my clues!

We have had to use that brute force technique when the starting point of a clue had contradictions, was too vague, or made no sense. It wasn't particularly fun.

Also when a clue said to look for a group of 4 trees, and there were only groups of 3 trees or 6 trees! [Or something like that.] I admit to leaving a comment of frustration in the log, but if it happens again, I will refrain.

Does your dog ever actually sniff out a box? I wondered if this is trainable.

Does your dog ever actually sniff out a box? I wondered if this is trainable.

I don't know about dogs, but I've heard of a chicken on Dartmoor that was trained to sniff out boxes. I hadn't actually seen it myself so I can't vouch for the authenticity of the story, but it's still a story I like to share. =)

-- Ryan

There once lived a geocacher in my area that was unbeatable at being FTF on new geocaches. Turns out he has this dog that he takes with him, and as soon as he nears the GZ the dog would scamper around and sniff out the freshly-planted geocache. Sniffing wouldn't work as well if the geocache had been there a while!

I used the art project story once and the person asked if they could see it! ugh

I used the art project story once and the person asked if they could see it!

That's why "my dog doing his business" is better... they almost NEVER ask to see it!

All of these are great strategies: dogs, kids, frisbees, cameras. My daughter once took it upon herself to create a diversion while I re-hid a box... pretty devious for a kid who was maybe around 6 at the time. I figure that my backpack, walking stick, etc., make it so that I look like I belong in the woods. And I generally make no attempt to hide maps, clues, or any other papers I've got in hand... I'd rather have people think that I'm out on some vague "project" than that I'm lurking or skulking. And I spent enough time as an arts major that I don't worry about folks seeing me sitting somewhere with a lap full of art supplies. Just remember that some folks are just plain paranoid. When I was planting my Mason-Dixon boxes we had the whole shebang: backpacks, camera, my nephew, not to mention the fact that we were at a minor historical site, but the neighbors didn't take their eyes off us for ages. I think we ended up driving away and coming back from the other direction.

And remember all of these things when you start planting your own boxes (which I hope you'll do). Sure, that small, neighborhood community park might seem like a convenient place to hide some boxes... but not if the hiding place is gonna be 20 feet from somebody's kitchen window when the leaves fall....

Being discreet: I always have my camera with me and once I have the box I move off a little and open my camera bag and play with the lens if someone approaches. Most people just glance at the camera and camera bag and go on. I've only had two people ask what I was doing and both of them saw me with ink pad and open journal. Both times I explained what the hobby was and handed them a small piece of paper (about business card sized) that explained the hobby with Atlasquest's web address on it. One seemed interested in checking out the website and the other asked for an imprint from the stamp on a notebook they had and asked more questions on how to get started. I always wait till no one is around to replace the box, if at all possible. A couple of times there were some people that sort of showed up and just wouldn't leave. So I went to several places and took several pictures of plants and such, putting my camera bag down each time. And somewhere in the middle of these places my camera bag was slightly lighter than before.