Is it cheating if you find the "back door" to a letterbox instead of following the clues?
I.E. using aerial maps (mapquest) to follow a trail to see where it splits so you can take the shortest route from the parking lot.


Did that make any sense?

We do that all the time... especially when we have a whole bunch to find in one day.

It's probably cheating though.... usually placers want you to experience the area.. as well as the box.

I guess I cheat a lot. However, I usually cheat when I've been on that trail before and already "seen it" once. Sometimes a new box will come out on the same trail that another box is on, that I've already gotten.

Recently, I've been taking letterboxing friends through the "back door" in the Meshomasic State Forest to get Lady Tremaine, Town Line, etc. This "back door" goes through private property and can only be accessed if I'm there as well. It also cuts the hike from 5 miles to 3 miles.

Music Woman

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Is it cheating if you find the "back door" to a letterbox instead of following the clues?
I.E. using aerial maps (mapquest) to follow a trail to see where it splits so you can take the shortest route from the parking lot.

I'm not giving an opinion on whether it's cheating or not... everyone probably has different idea about this or maybe even different reasons why they may want to cut a trail short...my biggest suggestion...
make SURE there are not things in the clues that the author has led you past in the clues that will end up being part of the clue. a numbered post along the way may tell you how many steps to take once you are at the lastlandmark etc.

dixie

I'd think you're only cheating yourself. I guess it depends on if you're in it for the "hunt" or the "kill". But, like Music Woman said, if you've been on the trail before, there may not be as much thrill in the hunt. I'm sure there are lots of reasons to do it either way. Whatever you choose, make the best of it. To each his own.

FG

Like Dixie said, if there's no *need* to take the long way (i.e. to get a number you need later), I have been known to take the short way. Especially if I know a park/area well and recognize the box location from the written word.

Knit Wit

Resourceful!

Although you may give up the "full effect" intended by the placer.

CPAScott

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Although you may give up the "full effect" intended by the placer.

However if like me you are the planter, and go in by the back door, then there is no full effect to see :-). I've used paper maps for years, to find back doors to places that I want people to visit.

It is the place where I plant that I want people to visit and I don't mind if they go in by the back door, or take the long route round. The longest of mine is a 5 mile round trip which is about the maximum I can manage at the moment, but if others want a longer hike they can choose their own route :-)

YT

I found an indoor box by "cheating". I searched the website for the building that the box was in and managed to find out what floor the box was on without following the rather lengthy clues. I was glad that I had done that because when I actually went to the building, I couldn't figure out what the heck the clues were talking about. So I may have cheated, but I found the box. I had been in that building previously so I didn't feel I missed anything by not following the clues.

TG

It's an interesting question. Sometimes I can't figure out some of the clues but I can still find the box because I know a location that appears later in the clues -- cheating or "improvising"? Other times I can't find a landmark but have found the box because, well, it's just obvious to me where it is. I'm happy to find the stamp but somewhat disappointed because I want to solve all the clues as well.

One of our local boxers discouraged the "short cut" practice in one set of clues with the tag line "Do the hike - earn the stamp!" Having done the whole hike, I know that there are some beautiful minerals and other natural attractions that I would not have seen without doing the full hike. Another area box uses the stamp to mock those who have taken the obvious short cut (present company not included).

On the other hand, we had a recent event in which a few boxes were simply not accessible to some people by following the full clues because of massive flooding. In such a situation, I think it's completely reasonable to figure out another route.

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Is it cheating if you find the "back door" to a letterbox instead of following the clues?

Yes, it's cheating. And you'll be banned from the sport if caught.

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...my biggest suggestion...
make SURE there are not things in the clues that the author has led you past in the clues that will end up being part of the clue. a numbered post along the way may tell you how many steps to take once you are at the lastlandmark etc.

Let's turn that around. Placers, take note: Make sure there are clues that need to be noted along the way to find the final location so that letterboxers won't cheat!

Recently, a San Francisco letterboxer posted a new box and let us know that she had a short-hike version that Robb could use, since his walking range is still very limited. A short walk for Robb involves as much effort and determination as the long hikes that we used to take.

Would this be cheating? I don't think so.

What it comes down to is that you have to do what is right for your abilities, and respectful of the experience that the letterbox planter is kind enough to share with seekers.

Of course, this is just my opinion.
Lisa

Personally I think you should do it however you would like to. There's no reason the placer ever needs to know if you took a short cut. I wouldn't care if people took a shortcut as long as they found the box and were respectful in replacing and hiding it. In fact I'm sure people have taken short cuts to my boxes.

Yep-yep: I'm a cheater. But, honestly, I find it just as fun as the rest of the hunt. It's like an extra little thing for me to be able to find a stamp by using another route. I like to call it resourcefulness, but others just call it lazy....

-Infinity

I greatly enjoy the hike itself, so would rarely be tempted to cheat. That being said...Once the kittens and I had to invent a new way because the trail written in the clue was completely grown over. I didn't think bushwhacking was part of Leave No Trace.
AND...one of the things that I hate the most is to wander around for 45 minutes following a clue in a park that is not "all that" only to find the box within sight of my car!!! If that knowledge could have been had beforehand, you bet I would have cheated.
Stacy

Oh I cheat all the time when I am finding. Planting though, is an entirely different story. I hike it roundtrip once to check out good hiding places and jot down ideas for clues, another roundtrip time to plant the box I have carefully spent hours on, then I hike it again roundtrip to check the clues and make sure everything is great...then I hike it yet again once or twice a year to do maintenance on it! Now multiply that by 200 boxes.

You'll have to forgive me if I take a shortcut on a find....

LW PhD

PS

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I guess it depends on if you're in it for the "hunt" or the "kill. "

That is probably the best quote I have ever read describing the two main camps among letterboxers. Bravo.

Now, now, you SHOULD have wandered the full HWL instead of shortcutting.


Or maybe that should read YOU should have..

um..

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Is it cheating if you find the "back door" to a letterbox instead of following the clues?

How can you cheat if there aren't any rules? :o)

Janet, Blooming Flowers (ducking and swaying to avoid the rotten tomatos being thrown at her)

The only one beign *cheated* is the finder. By that I mean they are (maybe)missing something the planter wanted them to see. There was one box here where the clues led you on a hiking trail and once you got to the box you discovered you could have parked within 100 yards of it but you would have missed some great views of the valley.

Shiloh

Could I have made that sentence any longer?

Shiloh :)

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Could I have made that sentence any longer?

Worked for me!

Janet, Blooming Flowers

PS "'I guess it depends on if you're in it for the "hunt" or the "kill. ' That is probably the best quote I have ever read describing the two main camps among letterboxers. Bravo."

So does that mean that letterboxers with a lot of finds are in for the kill? Being that I'm the person on atlasquest with the most logged finds, I don't feel as though I'm in for the kill. Maybe that's how people see me, but I've been boxing for over four years. I'm single, have lots of letterboxing friends, and live in a target rich environment. Does that make me a "killer" letterboxer? However, I'm sure that everyone here could name the only letterboxer in for the kill......

Music Woman

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So does that mean that letterboxers with a lot of finds are in for the kill?

No no no.. You are reading too much into it. Or maybe you have a sensitive spot because someone has misunderstood your motivation in the past. Or maybe they're just jealous. *shrug*

Think about the boxers you have met. Can't you see some of them who are really competitive about it and in a rush rush rush to get as many as possible..and don't really care about the history or other research the planter did, or could care less about the view? Or do you know some boxers who are really about the whole experience and enjoy the hunt? Of course you do. And I suspect you are in the second camp, judging by your reaction, but I wouldn' t know for sure because I have never boxed with you.

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However, I'm sure that everyone here could name the only letterboxer in for the kill......

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and not suspect you were actually TRYING to make a snarky personal attack about someone here.

LW PhD

If you can look at the clues and determine a "short cut", I don't think it's cheating. It is resourceful to be able to do that. The only thing you might be cheating yourself of is a nice hike, but it's still a legitimate way to find the letterbox, IMHO

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The only thing you might be cheating yourself of is a nice hike, but it's still a legitimate way to find the letterbox, IMHO

I agree, but whilst I might use the backdoor to get to a letterbox I won't be missing out on a hike because I generally string several letterboxes together on one trip. The hike just might be from one backdoor to the next backdoor.

However our clues rarely give instructions for a full hike unless it is a series on a trail. Often we start by giving a landmark, name or grid reference which is close-ish to the box, and everyone is expected to get themselves to that spot. The details will then become explicit in order to find the box.

YT

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I agree, but whilst I might use the backdoor to get to a letterbox I won't be missing out on a hike because I generally string several letterboxes together on one trip. The hike just might be from one backdoor to the next backdoor.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant about my favorite cheating method. Thanks for clarifying for me, YT!

LW PhD

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Does that make me a "killer" letterboxer?

I think you are a killer letterboxer, only in the sense that you are so good at folloiwng the clues and tracking down the box and moving inf for the kill. Only someone who is in it for the hunt would climb "Mount Olympus" in the rain.

A.