The very best work I have out there has been in a collaboration.

I agree--my best work was done in a recent collaborative postal ring. I can see how it would be even more so with traditional boxes--that Woodland Folk and Legends series looks absolutely amazing!

So, for all of you who collaborate to make these amazing boxes, how did you get started working with others? Was it random chance, did you set out to do so, or what? I'm curious--and I think it's something I would like to do eventually.

was completely blown away by one of Bluebirdlovers logbooks at a recent gathering. She is amazing.

I was, too--I wonder of we were at the same gathering? I have never seen anything like the one she did for Jingle Boxing this year! I don't think I'll ever reach that level of ability--that was a sculpture, not a logbook!

I think a lot of blue diamonds only get them for the carve.

I agree--though I must say, I have found very few truly amazing carves in crappy locations and/or with junk logbooks. (None, actually.) In the areas that I have boxed (and I haven't been around that long), it seems that people who take the time to create the beautiful stamps also take more time on the other aspects of making a memorable box. Is that typical for other areas of the country?

these are some favorites of mine:

I really like these--in particular, the way you've imbedded history into the clues. I am often hesitant to include too much "fluff" (as I've heard it described), but I personally like to find clues that tell me all about where I'm going and what is important at that place. So, how do you decide how much extra information is enough to keep people interested and not become a turn-off? Or is that not a problem most places?

I don't know how to put clues on the web like these and some others that are on this thread--is there an easy way to learn to do it?

I also like these interesting brain-teaser clues--though I don't know if I'm clever enough to do those! Wow!

Being that I am craft challenged just finding the box is important to me. It has nothing to do with what type of logbooks I stamp into. Unless I have won some spectacular book to put in a box then IT IS a spiral memo type.

When I came into this I neither expected to have a hand made log and actually prefer one with lines because I can write something in it if I choose. I started out with a store stamp and fully expected to have one all my boxing career..until a friend carved me one. Then hubby another.

I hope we don't get too 'exclusive' with things enough to scare folks away.

I admit I have scared up some spiders and some rolly pollys in my time. Part of the adventure and a good reason to carry a rag and hand sanitizer.

Nice artistic folk took pity on us after seeing or hearing about our hideous "stamps" and "logbooks"

Thank yous to the Wolf family( Mama Wolf is the Maestro of collaborations) Kirbert, Mim, Nosox and Rocklun! I am so impressed with your skills and kindness. I can't begin to thank you!

Nice artistic folk took pity on us after seeing or hearing about our hideous "stamps" and "logbooks"

I probably launched Dingus into some collaborations but I'll tell you how it really happened. I saw a link to his Peeps Mystery box on the GA board and I LOVED that clue!!! I thought -- now THAT is someone I really want to collaborate with some day!! Later, I saw him post on a board that he's not a good carver. BINGO!!! That was my opportunity IN!!! I STINK at mysteries so it was my chance to learn!! So I contacted him and asked if he would be interested in getting a stamp of mine in exchange for doing a clue on a box of mine. It worked out great!!! We have 3 BD's together as a result.

It just a matter of looking for opportunities and taking the initiative!

OK, so what we need to figure out is how to put together collaborations involving more than 2 individuals. For 2, it's easy: I just ship a stamp to someone who loves to plant. But what we need is to get someone who loves to create really unique log books to ship to the same guy, perhaps having been briefed on the theme of the box. Or perhaps I need to ship my stamps to someone who creates unique log books, they provide log books to match and then send the matched sets off to a planter.

OK, so what we need to figure out is how to put together collaborations involving more than 2 individuals.

It's really not any more difficult than it is with 2.

For this box, Aiphid asked me if I'd like to do the stamps for it. I said, "Sure!" BUT after reviewing the theme, we both decided that Foraych's metal etching skills were needed for the main logbook and we invited them. Then I asked Bluebirdlover if she would do the other logbook that goes with it. 4 people were involved doing different parts.

I've even shared stamp carving. I was asked to do a carving in one project. I agreed to it but the lettering was so small that I asked ElectricMedic to do the lettering part. I was better at the shading and he was better at the small clean letters. So 2 carvers did one stamp! I did the logbook and X created the box. 3 person project.

In this box, 1101010 contacted me to see if I'd do a box if he got the brick for the "permanent clue". I agreed and then I contacted X to see if that was something he was interested in since it was an urban hide. He ended up installing a box and I put the stamp and logbook in it. 3 person project.

So there are MANY variations and it's no different than doing it with 2 people.

I will definitely downgrade for a logbook. A blue diamond is supposed to be about the WHOLE package. Clue, Location, Carve, Box, Logbook, Those are 5 points and if you get them all then you get the 5 --anything missing, I take off points. :-) I am a harsh critic, but I think a lot of blue diamonds only get them for the carve.

If your box brings me to a hidden 100 foot waterfall that nobody knows about, I will have a hard time not giving it high marks because the logbook is spiral index cards. Or the clues were really just directions. Or the carve was average. Or the box was marginal.

Would I highly recommend that box for others to find? Absolutely! I think we need to allow for a box to overwhelm in one area or for the planter to compensate for deficiencies by knocking us out in another. Assigning rigid check mark criteria to boxes will undoubtably omit ones that should not be missed. The process needs to be malleable.

Sometimes I think we're all a little like the blind men and the elephant, including myself. The larger picture: do we have a highly recommendable box when the individual pieces are put together. (I realize this moral can be equally used as a counter argument.)

A hidden waterfall would be the total elephant for me!

(And when we talk about clues, we usually mean directions)

And occasionally, a truly incredible carve or an unbelievable logbook should merit must-see status by themselves. It is an amazing feeling to find a remarkable piece of art that should be hanging in a museum after shimmying along a stone wall straddled by swamp water.

Things you probably will never hear:

"I really loved the Mona Lisa but I can't recommend it, did you see that frame?"

"And the color of the wall it was hanging on, eewww!"

" I'm not partial to Paris anyway."

I will definitely downgrade for a logbook.

Your perogative. All of my log books are homemade, but not decorative; basically they're just assembled from card or cover stock with plastic covers and tied together with string. They're intended to be functional, not purty.

I can understand downgrading for a wirewound lined notepad, or for a memo pad with the pages falling out. And I can understand upgrading for a really elaborate log book that fits the theme of the letterbox.

Sometimes I think we're all a little like the blind men and the elephant, including myself. The larger picture: do we have a highly recommendable box when the individual pieces are put together.

So, if I want to get a good rating from Dingus Doofus... hide a letterbox in an elephant! Let's see, where's that hidey hole...

hide a letterbox in an elephant! Let's see, where's that hidey hole...

I'm not putting my hand in there!

A fantastic woodcarver and artist that I have been thinking about attempting a work of his in stamp form for a year or so. He is from the 15th/16th century.

Also, he reminds me of Tom.

But you took time to make them, Kirbert. They were thought about. A spiral bound, pulled off the shelf of Walmart book that has not been altered in any way says to me that the planter didn't think it through.

If you want a 5, you need to prove to me you put some thought into the whole package. Ok, you're not figureeight or bluebirdlover. You can take a spiral-bound book, cover the cover with a scrap paper related to the stamp or location (glue a postcard to it/construction paper in appropriate color/ related print somehow), decorate it with lil scrapbook ornaments from Michaels - Do SOMETHING. It doesn't need to be paper you made yourself, just some thought.

To me, a 5 is creme de la creme. I don't have many, because I don't put that kind of work into my own boxes. However, I still ALWAYS make my own logbook, hand carve and back the stamp, use a good container, pick a good spot and write a decent clue. That's a 3-4, not a 5. 5 is outstanding. I have 2, maybe 3 out of all the ones I've planted I think are that level.

~tigs(3's and 4's are still pretty fine)

You can take a spiral-bound book, cover the cover with a scrap paper related to the stamp or location

But sometimes an off-the shelf notepad is nice the way it is. I have created boxes where the stamp and location match the picture on the cover of a notepad that I found in a store. I also have a stationary store near me that sells notepads with a translucent cover - I use them, stamping the first page so that it shows through.

I think there are people making their own waterproof containers. Will this be the next standard? And I'm sure someone, somewhere is bleaching and pressing wood pulp in their basement as we speak.

Tulip Mania redux!

Hey, are you spying on us!?!?? ;)

Love your clues, BTW!

The Mona Lisa IS the whole box. He didn't just stop at painting HALF of it. You make it sound like there's just ONE thing and it's so good the rest doesn't matter.

It could be that you are so extraordinary in one area that it earns a 5.

But for the most part, it's unlikely that we are gonna carve the Mona Lisa or plant in the Garden of Eden. And the nice thing is that you don't have to be the best at any one thing or everything. Anyone can make a box great, by putting time into ALL of the parts of it. And if there is one part that you really don't do well at all, you still have an opportunity to make it great by finding someone else with that skill and sharing your skills.

And you don't have to make all boxes great. There are a lot of very good ones and I have enjoyed those too! MOST boxes are "3s". That's not a "down grade". It's simply more in the average category and that is perfectly fine. But extraordinary is for when someone takes the time to paint the WHOLE picture.-- that is what creates a Mona Lisa IMO.

You know that I do a lot of great stamps, BUT if I want an extraordinary box, I get you to do my clue writing! ;)

I think there are people making their own waterproof containers. Will this be the next standard?

Well, I think I'd rather have the trend going that way than this way, wouldn't you?? :)

Oh ya, I never got partial credit for that plant!

Bet you a set of clues you could carve the Mona Lisa!

(I know someone beat you to the Mickey flippin" the bird stamp!)

I mentioned that ElectricMedic could carve the Mona Lisa in miniature one year so he did! LOL!

Actually, you are the one that creates the hand carved CLUES of Mona Lisa level. The box I did with you outranks any of the boxes I did on my own!

And I like that. I like that we have a letterboxing community that can use each other as resources. I like that Wise Old Owl started this thread by using the boards as a resource to improving her clue writing.
And YOU are one of those resources for the original topic of this thread (even though you are getting off focus here, Dufus!).

And I'm sure someone, somewhere is bleaching and pressing wood pulp in their basement as we speak.

You don't use such harsh chemicals as bleach when we make the paper, we're using....wait....I've said too much.

...should merit must-see status by themselves.

To this point. I have seen logbooks, boxes, carves, clues, containers, creativity, and locations that merited the letterbox to be seen all for that one extraordinary thing. Some box about Hitler and peeps comes to mind, but I can not think of where I saw it. Hmmm. Anyway, when finding those boxes, it has caused me to go back and reevaluate my previous box ratings. A "5" is one where the majority, if not all, the elements individually rank 4 or better.

In essence, as my experience, finds, and range increases, the standard of what constitutes a "5" increases. What was a "5" four years ago, may barely be a "3" today. Sadly this also works in the inverse. What was a "1" four years ago, may be a "2" today. Its the law of averages at work.

Mama Wolf says we all CAN do it, but she also believes (as do I) that collaborations increase the box level AND our own skills and experience too.

I'm a carver. I create all my own images and therefore each is original. No internet for me....unless of course a collaborator wants it (I don't look down on the process). My strength lies in the fact that I can draw what I need and then carve it. However, logbooks, clues, and creative craftiness are not my forté. To do well in those categories I need collaborators. I often trade my skills for the skills of others. Its mutually beneficial.

3 Blind Mice

I have created boxes where the stamp and location match the picture on the cover of a notepad that I found in a store. I also have a stationary store near me that sells notepads with a translucent cover - I use them, stamping the first page so that it shows through.

And THAT shows ThOUGHT. i'm talking about someone scribbled the name of the box on the back of a 3 for$1 notebook or index card book (not even printed clearly), didn't stamp the stamp in it, and the price tag is still on the back cover (which is now the front cover because that was blank.

And no, i don't care HOW great the location is - the box has to have some redeeming features. If you plant a store-bought smiley stamp next to a great hidden waterfall, it's not getting a 5.

And frankly, dingus, i WAS disappointed by the Mona Lisa when i saw it. They have it so well preserved in it's teeny tiny little air-controlled box that you can't really see it (the painting itself is only about 8x10), it's always crowded in front of it, and it's not really all that well lit. i was much more impressed by the Renoirs around the corner in the next room.

~tigs (picky lil brat, aren't i?)

preserved in it's teeny tiny little air-controlled box that you can't really see it (the painting itself is only about 8x10), it's always crowded in front of it, and it's not really all that well lit.

But your focus was on the ancillary and extrinsic! By your definition of "5" worthy items, the lighting, size, crowd, etc would detract its rating so, that you could not recommend the Mona Lisa to folks visiting the area of the painting. I think if you didn't find the work itself exceptional then that would be a different palette entirely. Hey, different brush strokes for different folks!

Renoir? How can one not be impressed by impressionists!

(Though I always thought Renoir just needed a better pair of glasses)

Signed,

Stuck on clues in MA
(all offered in friendly tones)

I also like these interesting brain-teaser clues--though I don't know if I'm clever enough to do those! Wow!

I can make interesting clues, but I have some difficulty solving them. I get some and not others.

Unfortunately, many people are scared off by puzzles. More people need to try them. Puzzles are a pain while working on them, but they are so much fun once they are solved.

collaborations increase the box level AND our own skills and experience too.

In this case it is probably because you (anonymous 'you') don't want to be the weak link in the chain. That will make a box better by trying to live up to what you think of the others in the team.