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Read Thread: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....

Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 7:19pm
Thread (disabled) Board
That is sad. Especially when there are far far greater threats to society and the ecosystem than a few geocaches and letterboxes. Why doesn't this person take up the crusade to stop the oil polluting the ocean destroying probably 20 times more earth friendly things. While millions of people grow homeless and starving. Or the millions with diseases or disabilities and this person is going to hunt down a few small things hidden where there probably isn't a liability. Why doesn't he start cleaning up the beaches on the east and west coasts or cleaning the trash littering the streets and sidewalks. But i'm glad this moron put this out there and showed the evidence because there are ways to find this person. Very sad really.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 7:19pm
Thread (disabled) Board
How obnoxious.

Grr.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 8:58pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Thank you VERY VERY much, Lone R, for finding this!!!!

I want to point out that (as much as I hate to say it) there IS a way to put Plant/Find restrictions on all your plants with one fell swoop. http://www.atlasquest.com/mypage/prefs/boxlock.html
From the My Page menu, select Preferences, then Box-Lock. It might be prudent to do this, at least until this cretin realizes how foolish his endeavor is.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 9:19pm
Thread (disabled) Board
What an arse. Thanks Lone R for posting this.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510752 by wassamatta u
Apr 30, 2010 9:35pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I wonder if there's a way to get his blogger blog shut down- since he's doing his best to publicly identify people he has a beef with. This behavior seems a bit sociopathic to me.

What did the geocache community make of him? It would appear to be attention seeking behavior if he's making a noise about it on geocaching boards. I'm glad only one person has responded on his blog- if he's collectively ignored he won't get whatever cheap thrill he's seeking by ticking people off.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510752 by wassamatta u
Apr 30, 2010 9:44pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Since I have boxes in the area of the delusional Forest Defender, I'm interested in this tool. But what does it mean when it says, "Be careful since you will not be able to undo the changes." ?
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510763 by Gryffindors
Apr 30, 2010 9:53pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Oh, s/he is not even a blip on my radar....when a National Park ranger threatens to have you banned for life, anything else is small beans.
I will however, be taking the usual precautions.

And don't you worry, Deception Pass will be back in business within days! :-)

-Amanda from Seattle
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510763 by Gryffindors
Apr 30, 2010 9:57pm
Thread (disabled) Board
"Be careful since you will not be able to undo the changes." ?

If you want to un-restrict your boxes, you have to do it box by box....you won't be able to do it in one fell swoop. Like when you restricted them...
So it can be undone, but it just takes a bit of time.

-Amanda from Seattle
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 9:58pm
Thread (disabled) Board
At the risk of being stoned to death...I have to admit he kind of has a point. He's being an ass and going about things in a completely awful way but I get where he's coming from to a certain extent. We really can do a lot of damage to the eco-system in our national parks if we aren't being responsible boxers. I haven't really run into anything yet that I would consider truly dangerous, and based on the boxes he found, I don't think any of them were exactly awful either. I'm not saying he's right, I just think it's good to be reminded, every now and again, that we have to be careful when we're out in the wild and straying off the path might not be the best idea in all areas.

Did anyone else notice that he was posting the same pictures as "finds" for two different boxes? I think he's doing some creative editing on the actual area he's finding some of this stuff in.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 9:59pm
Thread (disabled) Board
What a moron. He needs to practice what he preaches. Seems he is trampling the vegatation to retrieve these letterboxes and geocaches, the main thing that he preaches about on his blog. tsk, tsk.

Camp Fire Lady
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510767 by Kizmet
Apr 30, 2010 10:27pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Totally agree. He acts like he's fixing a problem when really he's just a hypocrite.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510767 by Kizmet
Apr 30, 2010 11:19pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Not to mention that when a seeker can't find the box where it's supposed to be, they will like spend 15+min looking in every other conceivable interpretation of those clues, likely trampling more vegetation in the process. He'd be better of leaving a "calling card" indicating he garbaged it, but that would be... well... leaving "garbage" in an "eco-sensitive area."

Sitting ontop of a moss and fern covered stump.

Uh-oh; sounds like someone didn't re-hide very well. LOL.

The only other thing that I find disconcerting is how comfortable he is revealing identities tied to trail names, even citing cities and dates of residence in the area... especially since he's too chicken to reveal his own.

HPL
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
Apr 30, 2010 11:52pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Makes me wonder if someone got their feelings hurt and has an axe to grind. This sounds like someone out for revenge:

15. Bonus kill with Whistler Gondola letterbox was the Geocach travel bug left in this letterbox by accident by a clueless Geocacher who took it out of a Geocache in this same park and put it in a letterbox. It's 9000 mile journey is now over.

It's very hard to take this "eco-mission" seriously because it seems like a game to them -- making personal jabs at people in a public forum, writing over-dramatic descriptions, and counting the "kills"

He/she/they are trampling all over the precious environment they're trying to "save" in order to retrieve and destroy the boxes. And fussing about hiding a letterbox in a DEAD root stump... really? But he/she/they called it an "ancient" dead root stump, so it *must* be worthy of saving from evil letterboxers so that it can, you know, um... continue on it's job of rotting away unimpeded. (?!?)

~Ohana
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510734 by Spakinois
May 1, 2010 12:52am
Thread (disabled) Board
there are ways to find this person

How?
The kids on the school bus are driving me crazy lately and I need to release some anger. (ok, a lot of anger and frustration)
Where is she/he? Let me at them. :)
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
May 1, 2010 1:17am
Thread (disabled) Board
Yes, we should all hide and seek responsibly, but, since when is every patch of moss, every leaf, and every bit of funghi considered a "sensitive ecosystem"? I am also amazed by all of the lovely pictures of the fragile biological matter which has apparently managed to survive the carnage inflicted upon these sites by villainous geocachers and manaical letterboxers! Please!
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510779 by SpyCat
May 1, 2010 5:27am
Thread (disabled) Board
What about the animals out there? The deer, antelope, bear, etc. Don't they walk through the forests trampling twigs, brush, sitting on stumps and walking on logs? I hope this memo went out to them too.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510773 by OhanaTribe
May 1, 2010 6:00am
Thread (disabled) Board
He/she/they are trampling all over the precious environment they're trying to "save" in order to retrieve and destroy the boxes. And fussing about hiding a letterbox in a DEAD root stump... really? But he/she/they called it an "ancient" dead root stump, so it *must* be worthy of saving from evil letterboxers so that it can, you know, um... continue on it's job of rotting away unimpeded. (?!?)

I think his beef is that moss and mushrooms and fungus and things won't grow there because of the box and the people going to and from. But then he takes a picture of several different kinds on nearby plants and bushes and even labels them as growing "Close by" so I don't see what the huge issue is that ONE stump might not be home to the fungus. Particularly when anyone who passed high school biology knows that most moss and fungi grow like an underground carpet, skipping over areas it doesn't find suitable and continuing on unimpeded on the other side.

EDIT TO ADD: Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, not only does it grow in carpets, it will grow on ALMOST ANYTHING. Meaning if no boxers came by that particular stump for awhile, say...a month or two...a mushroom could very easily grown in the earth that collects on top of the box itself. I don't see this as a major ecological issue.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
May 1, 2010 6:49am
Thread (disabled) Board
Lone R

Thanks for sharing this. I'm on the opposite side of the country but I appreciate the message: We do need to be reminded every now and then. We do need to take care of the environment and encourage the same in our peers. That being said I would be furious if a vigilante removed one of my letterboxes... but I appreciate what they are saying: We need to tread lightly and not damage the environment. We all have see bad letterbox placement decisions.

Geocachers here in Virginia outnumber letterboxers 20 to 1. Caches are everywhere... and they usually have collateral wear and tear in a twenty foot radius. A few of my letterboxer pals geocache.... but I just dont get it. To me it's garbage in a box... just like the vigilante blogged.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510813 by Gallant Rogue
May 1, 2010 7:47am
Thread (disabled) Board
I live on Whidbey Island, and I could l go out and collect whatever boxes this person hasn't managed to find.

Many of the Whidbey boxes are planted by folks who are not from around here. I could assume that you guys would like your box with me rather than in the trash. But I could also see that some of you may want to just take your clues down for a while and leave the box where it is. I would welcome feedback from the community about how you feel I should proceed (just start pulling, or wait for folks to ask me to). If I collect one of your boxes, I will let you know, and we can arrange for its return to you.

I also can get to Anacortes and Mt. Vernon/Burlington. If you have any boxes out there you'd like pulled, let me know.

I have a couple of busy weeks coming up, but I could get out as I can and get to what I can before this person does.

Thunderbird
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510730 by Lone R
May 1, 2010 8:23am
Thread (disabled) Board
What is most frustrating to me about what this so-called "Forest Defender" is doing is that s/he claims to be "saving" the areas by removing letterboxes and/or geocaches, yet doesn't realize that the majority of us who participate in this activity do it because we appreciate what the great outdoors has to offer. I know that there have been times when our family has left a park location in better condition than it was in by picking up stray plastic bags or other garbage on our way to/from a box. It's unfortunate that this yahoo has decided to strike at a community who in all likelihood would be an ally in this quest to clean up. I don't know about GCers, but aren't we asked in the etiquette and "rules" section NOT to go into protected areas and NOT to disturb areas that are delicate?

My family began letterboxing last year, as a way to get out and discover the natural beauty of Washington State. It has helped us to see that there ARE a lot of careless and destructive people out there, and I'm willing to bet that the ACTUAL trash we have found on the trails were not left by letterboxers. By participating in letterboxing I have grown to care a lot MORE about the environment and the impact of humans on the natural habitats of the planet. By getting out there on the trails and seeing it all for myself I have gained a 1st person perspective that I would never have had if I hadn't started letterboxing.

And now for the angry side of me: Jeez, what d-bag...
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510762 by Poodle Circus
May 1, 2010 9:00am
Thread (disabled) Board
You can read the discussion about this blogger on the geocaching boards here:
http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=248332

The discussion is similar to what's being said here.

Love what said Bassonia said in response to another posters question:
"Why is walking up to the cache to take pictures (and remove it) any different that cachers on the hunt?"

Bassonia:
That was my first thought as well...but then I realized this guy is such an eco-angel, he just floats above the ground.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510813 by Gallant Rogue
May 1, 2010 9:19am
Thread (disabled) Board
I'm a geocacher too and haven't noticed, at least in the areas I've geocached in any serious destruction by geocachers - the worst I've seen that I could attribute to geocachers is bent grass and weeds, usually because the cache owner has provided poor coordinates and a non-hint. When I see this I note it in the log and add an additional waypoint in my online cache log in hopes of pinpointing the search for future finders. In my area at least, there are many cachers who also do the additional waypoint thing (groundspeak even made it an option when posting an online log).

The most destruction in the woods that I've seen I would attribute to homeless people, young boys, people who like to drink in the woods - broken beer and alcohol bottles, old clothes, old boards nailed to trees to make ladders and forts - lots of rusty nails sticking out old boards just scattered on the ground, mattresses, couches, campfires with cans and bottles left in the ashes, cigarette packs, water bottles, paper coffee cups, etc.

Anyway, I mostly wanted to put the call out to letterboxers in the area that some boxes may be gone and why they're not there anymore.

It's an unfortunate reminder that we sometimes have to deal with eco-vigilantly types and may have to move boxes and protect our clues. Thank gosh there aren't many of these types around and very often they get bored and move on. Hopefully the posts by some people letting him know he may have only made any damage worse by removing those boxes, will make him think carefully before taking another one.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510848 by Lone R
May 1, 2010 9:23am
Thread (disabled) Board
I would welcome feedback from the community about how you feel I should proceed (just start pulling, or wait for folks to ask me to). If I collect one of your boxes, I will let you know, and we can arrange for its return to you.

I am also on Whidbey Island, and I would NOT want my boxes removed. I think you should definitely NOT remove a box without the planter requesting it.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510856 by Wise Wanderer
May 1, 2010 9:40am
Thread (disabled) Board
More reason why to put F count and P counts on boxes. Sad, isn't it?
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510856 by Wise Wanderer
May 1, 2010 9:46am
Thread (disabled) Board
personally I'd want you to pick up my boxes... I'd much rather have them with you than being pulled and thrown away by this psycho chick.

Maiden
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510854 by Lone R
May 1, 2010 9:49am
Thread (disabled) Board
I just spent several hours cleaning up roadsides for my town's Earth Day cleanup. We picked up alcohol bottles, fast food containers, car parts, everything. This is the trash that is hurting our ecosystems, not carefully monitored letterboxes and geocaches. If this guy wants to help save our "fragile environments" he should start getting rid of the REAL trash.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510771 by Hufflepuff Lost
May 1, 2010 10:00am
Thread (disabled) Board
they will like spend 15+min looking in every other conceivable

EXACTLY!!!!! make that more like an hour if you're boxing with CloudWalker!
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510800 by Falling Rocks
May 1, 2010 10:04am
Thread (disabled) Board
Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, not only does it grow in carpets, it will grow on ALMOST ANYTHING.

That's for sure---even fences, rocks, sidewalks, pavement, and house siding.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510857 by Esmerelda
May 1, 2010 10:08am
Thread (disabled) Board
The hand in the picture removing the cache from a log is a woman's hand. Nice nails.

I was just about to make this same observation.
Re: If you're wondering what happened to your letterboxes....
Board: State: Washington
Reply to: #510878 by QueenMother'n'CloudWalker
May 1, 2010 10:36am
Thread (disabled) Board
There is one more point that I want to make about what this lunatic posted on their blog and then I am done with this dumbass:

They listed my trailname, first name, city and state on their blog and posted a picture of one of my boxes that they trashed. The blog post states that my box was planted on 'sacred Salish Indian grounds' giving me a 5 on their list of worst plants. That's funny, in the picture, there is a wooden railing that was put there by the city since where I planted my box was in a city park. Hmmm, maybe this blogger should contact the city and let them know that they put a city park on 'sacred Salish Indian grounds'.

Anyway, I looked to see if I could site this person for slander or defermation and found that there is nothing that I can do to get this person's blog removed. Since they only used my first name and not my full name, and did not include my social security number or information about bank institutions that I use, this does not constitute slander or any other form of invasion of privacy.

So, in the meantime, since this person has publicly stated that I have 'hundreds' of letterboxes planted all over the PNW and has included the links for Atlas Quest and letterboxing.org on his site, I have placed restrictions on all of my letterboxes on AQ in hopes that no more of my creations end up in the garbage.

My hope is that the dumbass will read the post that I left them on their blog and try to harrass me on AQ. That way I can get Wassa or GT to have them removed from AQ so they won't be able to access clues to everyone's boxes.

Camp Fire Lady