So far this year, there have been 2 virtuals listed, and a grand total of less than 1,000 finds on all virtuals. (Over half of which were by just one person.)

And I'm starting to think I should just nix them completely. AQ is such a large, sprawling website right now, I'm looking for ways to "cut the fat," and it seems to me like virtuals are biggie. The database tables for them are huge, the images AQ stores for them is still one of the largest disk hogs on the server, and I could cut out thousands of lines of code that would no longer need maintaining or fixing.

It just seems like a pretty big hunk of fat at this point.

I don't think I'm ready to completely deep-six the feature, but I'm inclined to "deprecate" it. Scrub the public links to virtuals, for instance, so they aren't as readily available to find. Turn off the ability to add new boxes. Then turn off the ability to record finds and just leave them as logbook pages. And eventually remove even those.

Thoughts? Is there anyone even left who cares about them anymore?

-- Ryan

Virtual letterboxing was a wonderful season of my life. I think now it would be a good time to "let it go." It has essentially gone by the wayside quite some time ago. Thanks for the times when it was a fun part of AQ.

Scrub the public links to virtuals, for instance, so they aren't as readily available to find. Turn off the ability to add new boxes. Then turn off the ability to record finds and just leave them as logbook pages. And eventually remove even those.

This sounds good to me. I do find them fun to check out from time to time as they often have creative puzzles and encoding ideas.

Is there a widget for virtuals? Would that be one way to access them without having them so readily available?

Peace
CTEE

Definition of "deprecating":
1. to express earnest disapproval of.
2. to urge reasons against; protest against (a scheme, purpose, etc.).
3. to depreciate; belittle.
4. Archaic. to pray for deliverance from.

All of the above has already been done to virtual letterboxes long ago. Well not sure if there was any praying but the rest applys. Don't wait or make it a slow process. Just pull the life support all at once and be done with it.

Definition of "deprecating":

It's also a computer science term meaning an attribute applied to a computer software feature, characteristic, or practice to indicate that it should be avoided (often because it is being superseded).

There's even a list of common reasons why features are deprecated, including "The feature is considered extraneous, and will be removed in the future in order to simplify the system as a whole" which is the reason in this case.

-- Ryan

I agree with IrishRef. If the decision has been made to eliminate virtuals, then set a date and pull the plug all at once. I would recommend January 1, 2015. That would give those of us who have dabbled in virtuals a last spasm of solving.

Long ago I discontinued using AQ visuals on my clues. Go ahead and trim the "excess."

I'd like to download mine and put them on my blog before you take them away. I haven't checked....are they already gone?

I haven't checked....are they already gone?

No, it's all still there. I don't really plan to do anything until the start of next year at the earliest.

-- Ryan

I would like to move mine, as well. I'm sure I could get to it by the end of the year.

Thanks, Ryan.

~MC

Our family used to enjoy doing them in the winter (maybe two years ago?) but then a lot of them became broken. I think many were missing images which made them impossible to solve. Sorry I don't remember the details right now.

Virtual letterboxing was a wonderful season of my life.

It was. I loved some of the puzzles that took me to new websites and taught me new things (like the strange Holiday ones).

I loved virtuals too. It was fun to create a few during the winter months. Most were fun to solve too.

It's so sad and frustrating that people abused them by posting so many poorly created virtuals with images they snagged from the web. And especially bothersome that some posted photos of handcarved images that turned out to be not their handcarved stamp but a handcarved stamp image they snagged from the web (often from the Etsy site).

I am resigned and understand the problem Ryan faces and he's given us years of warnings that Virtuals were on the way out. I've started posting mine on a blog (it's a work in progress so not much there right now): http://virtualletterboxes.wordpress.com/

http://virtualletterboxes.wordpress.com/

Bookmarked!

I always enjoy your virtuals.

~MC

http://virtualletterboxes.wordpress.com/

Bookmarked!

I always enjoy your virtuals.

~MC

Thank you Mama Cache. <blush> I plan on revitalizing my retired virtuals too. It's going to take awhile - I have 66 virtuals. But hopefully I'll get them all transferred before 2015.

ok, i went to look at my logbook to see all of my victuals and i don't see any listed but my own plants, not finds and i did tons of them the first winter i got into boxing ........living in a snow area without very many boxes. am i looking in the wrong area?

I've started posting mine on a blog (it's a work in progress so not much there right now): http://virtualletterboxes.wordpress.com/

Is part of the work in progress the links for the passkeys for
• Corresponding in Code
• Geocaching Hide n Go Seek

The passkey links don't seem to exist.

Enjoyed strolling through the site.
Peace
CTEE

I plan on revitalizing my retired virtuals too. It's going to take awhile - I have 66 virtuals.

I'm hoping that Ryan will keep this board even after AQ no longer hosts the virtuals, themselves. It would be a great spot for those who would like to post the existence/addition of their offsite creations.

And, one day, I want to learn how to make an image map virtual letterbox -- those are so very cool.

Thanks so much for preserving your work!

~MC

I'm hoping that Ryan will keep this board even after AQ no longer hosts the virtuals, themselves.

I can do that. Adding or removing a board doesn't really cause any code bloat since the code for message boards needs to work anyhow. It does take up a marginal amount of space in the database, I suppose, but that pretty much amounts to a rounding error. And anyhow, even if I deleted this board, there's no reason someone can't just create another virtuals board to discuss such matters since members here are allowed to create their own boards.

In any case, long story short, there's not really any compelling reason for me to get rid of the board. =)

-- Ryan

i went to look at my logbook to see all of my victuals and i don't see any listed but my own plants, not finds and i did tons of them the first winter i got into boxing ........living in a snow area without very many boxes. am i looking in the wrong area?

It looks like you found a bug in the code! Congrats! =) The drop-down list letting you choose between plants and finds doesn't seem to be showing in the logbook like it's supposed to. However, you can still access the correct links from the Virtuals home page by clicking on your plants, finds or finds on unlisted virtuals links.

Normally, I'd just fix bugs, but in this case, since I plan to get rid of virtuals, it seems like a waste of time to fix something that's going away soon anyhow. So just follow the link from the virtuals home page. It's a kludge, but it does work!

-- Ryan

I loved doing virtuals. I hate change (and the old way of doing virtuals has been gone a long time). But 'if not for change there wouldn't be butterflies'.

I've started posting mine on a blog (it's a work in progress so not much there right now): http://virtualletterboxes.wordpress.com/

---

Is part of the work in progress the links for the passkeys for
• Corresponding in Code
• Geocaching Hide n Go Seek

The passkey links don't seem to exist.

Enjoyed strolling through the site.
Peace
CTEE

Yes...a work in progress. Have a look now. The link should work.

I plan on revitalizing my retired virtuals too. It's going to take awhile - I have 66 virtuals.

---

I'm hoping that Ryan will keep this board even after AQ no longer hosts the virtuals, themselves. It would be a great spot for those who would like to post the existence/addition of their offsite creations.

And, one day, I want to learn how to make an image map virtual letterbox -- those are so very cool.

Thanks so much for preserving your work!

~MC

It would be fantastic if Ryan might consider something where we could list our off-site virtuals and perhaps record them here. A premium perk perhaps, similar to listing box finds that are not on AQ.

The image map virtuals will be sad to lose. I want to move my Gems over to my Virtuals blog but that site isn't suitable.

It would be fantastic if Ryan might consider something where we could list our off-site virtuals and perhaps record them here.

That's kind of what there is already--but nobody uses it anymore!

The image map virtuals will be sad to lose.

I'm a little sad about that too because I really liked the idea, but nobody has been doing them either. My idea to pull the plug on virtuals wasn't because there wasn't room for them here--it was just because nobody is doing them anymore. I was a little curious if I pulled the plug without saying anything how long it would take before anyone even noticed. (I knew that eventually someone would notice--but I suspect it might have been awhile!)

And even then, I kind of forgot about virtuals until I started changing some core code and realized that I had to update the code for virtuals so it wouldn't break and it left me wondering why I was updating code on stuff that almost nobody ever uses anymore. It was wasting time that could be better spent on features more people would use.

I wouldn't have felt like I was wasting my time updating the code if people were actually using it regularly....

-- Ryan

My idea to pull the plug on virtuals wasn't because there wasn't room for them here--it was just because nobody is doing them anymore.

I think the big reason so few people are doing them is because they are so hard to find.

I also think they could work with some hard rules. Especially with regards to the reward. Only hand-carved stamp reward allowed. We could include store ought stamps but then things get out of control again. Plus a check box, when submitting, that said "I certify that the hand carved stamp image was carved by me, the creator of this virtual letterbox". I think it would discourage people from posting images of handcarved stamps that they didn't carve but snagged from the web.

That would knock down the exponential growth of them and, the one question VLBs or give-away VLBs. I expect that people who invest time in carving a stamp image will more likely create a more robust VLB.

Only hand-carved stamp reward allowed.

That leaves a pretty big question mark--what about all of the virtuals that were already listed that didn't have hand-carved stamps? It doesn't really seem fair to have most virtuals that use images stolen off the web while at the same time prohibiting new people from doing the same.

More explicit rules earlier might have prevented virtuals from being moved into their own category, but that boat kind of already sailed. And when I suggested adding such rules and removing the multitudes of listings that weren't following them.... that didn't go over too well either.

Be that as it may, however, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to someday re-visting the virtuals concept. I added them to AQ because I thought it was an interesting idea that I genuinely liked. It's the mess that they turned into that didn't work out well. I still like the original concept for them, and washing it all away and starting with a clean slate isn't totally out of the question.

But I'm not seeing any advantage to keeping around what's already here, and based on how much use it gets, neither does anyone else.

-- Ryan

I'm totally cool with starting with a clean slate. I have no issues with moving them off-site then moving them back on site if you do decide to re-vamp them.

The VLBs have been so low-key for so long I bet that the dissent will be low-key as well. Wiping out the current database in early 2015 hasn't met with much angst.

Maybe a new and improved VLB database based on lessons learned from the old site, might work. You may need to keep the handful of reviewers to help make sure it doesn't go off track.

Anyway, glad to hear that you still like the original concept and starting over isn't totally out of the question. :)

Wiping out the current database in early 2015 hasn't met with much angst.

I have to admit, I'm a little surprised about that. I was a little nervous about suggesting the idea....

You may need to keep the handful of reviewers to help make sure it doesn't go off track.

Yes, I'd definitely need some sort of system to monitor things. But I'm not going to worry much about that until the day comes when I start seriously thinking about reintroducing virtuals.

-- Ryan

I have deleted all of my plants. Feel free to delete all of my finds. I don't have the time to delete these one at a time, so if you can mass wipe mine out feel free.

If you are going to start over with a "clean slate" and require hand carved images at least call it something different and have a strict rule to enforce. I guess that was the intent of the virtual monitors that were previously appointed.

If you are going to start over with a "clean slate" and require hand carved images at least call it something different

What would you suggest?

-- Ryan