Eh, one of the things that a lot of people have trouble at, especially at first, is looking through other boxer's eyes. I am a pretty analytical person, so for me clues like:

"Find the garden where memories are made, fortunes are told, and sweet nothings are said"

are hard for me, so I have to put my mindset slightly off from what it normally is. The thing to remember that this is not Rand McNally writing directions, and it should not be. One of the cool things about clues is that you have to adjust your worldview to fit the other person's.

That being said, I do think there are poorly written clues. But, that's the nature of the game, and you definitely get better at interpreting them as time goes by....

Mr. Yuk

I don't think there is any trick. You just have to remember the clues were written from another person's point of view.
I think it is part of the fun, too... trying to think like another letterboxer. And sometimes the clues list the wrong tree name or the wrong direction, but you either figure it out the first time or you don't. Today we found a box that said to look for a rock at the downhill. We had to use trial and error to find the box, but it was fun anyways. If we found the boxes immediately, every time, it wouldn't be as rewarding. And if I got frustrated every time the clues weren't 'spot on' I would not be able to enjoy this hobby the way I do.
But that's just my point of view.

't'
dtandfambly

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Eh, one of the things that a lot of people have trouble at, especially at first, is looking through other boxer's eyes. I am a pretty analytical person, so for me clues like:

"Find the garden where memories are made, fortunes are told, and sweet nothings are said"

are hard for me, so I have to put my mindset slightly off from what it normally is. The thing to remember that this is not Rand McNally writing directions, and it should not be. One of the cool things about clues is that you have to adjust your worldview to fit the other person's.

That being said, I do think there are poorly written clues. But, that's the nature of the game, and you definitely get better at interpreting them as time goes by....

Mr. Yuk

Thanks Yuk...I suspect alot of it is me...

I'm fairly analytical but I would probably lean towards your example of "find the garden..." type of clue. However, if I'm going to write specific directions, I'm going to make them as literal as possible. Heck, all these trees look alike to me!!!!!

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I don't think there is any trick. You just have to remember the clues were written from another person's point of view.
I think it is part of the fun, too... trying to think like another letterboxer. And sometimes the clues list the wrong tree name or the wrong direction, but you either figure it out the first time or you don't. Today we found a box that said to look for a rock at the downhill. We had to use trial and error to find the box, but it was fun anyways. If we found the boxes immediately, every time, it wouldn't be as rewarding. And if I got frustrated every time the clues weren't 'spot on' I would not be able to enjoy this hobby the way I do.
But that's just my point of view.

't'
dtandfambly

Great points...I think the thing that would frustrate me is that if someone put "turn left" when it should've been "turn right." I don't think that person has any business in writing clues if they can't figure out their right from their left. That's uneeded frustration and to me that's not fun.

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if someone put "turn left" when it should've been "turn right." I don't think that person has any business in writing clues if they can't figure out their right from their left.

And sometimes you may need to cut people a little slack. Doing something like that is usually an honest mistake. I've met many an otherwise educated adult that absolutely cannot tell right from left. Yeah, it's not fun but it happens. Also if they've put no other waymark in the clues to make sure you're on the right track, it can also keep you from finding the box.

However, I've gotten notes from finders who read my "turn left" and turned right instead. They didn't find the box and were angry that my clues were "unclear". Whose fault is that? :-)

Knit Wit

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Heck, all these trees look alike to me!!!!!

Precisely why I often put tree types in my clues. I've learned more about trees and how their appearances differ from letterboxing than at any other time of my life.

Knit Wit

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Great points...I think the thing that would frustrate me is that if someone put "turn left" when it should've been "turn right." I don't think that person has any business in writing clues if they can't figure out their right from their left. That's uneeded frustration and to me that's not fun.

In response to this and to continue what Knit Wit said, embarrisingly enough, I have a hard time with this. Yes, I know left from right. But sometimes, I will adamently tell you left when indeed it's right. I am picturing the right turn, pointing right, etc. and saying left. No idea why, I don't consider myself dumb by any means, it just happens. However, I do not beleive I have no business writing clues. A bit harsh, really.

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Yes, I know left from right. But sometimes, I will adamently tell you left when indeed it's right. I am picturing the right turn, pointing right, etc. and saying left. No idea why

... besides, it is actually fun trying to figure out when to use "Desi-Lefts" versus real ones *grin*

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In response to this and to continue what Knit Wit said, embarrisingly enough, I have a hard time with this. Yes, I know left from right. But sometimes, I will adamently tell you left when indeed it's right. I am picturing the right turn, pointing right, etc. and saying left. No idea why, I don't consider myself dumb by any means, it just happens. However, I do not beleive I have no business writing clues. A bit harsh, really.

I'm sorry but I don't think I'm being harsh at all. I understand if people have difficulty with this at times...we all have our little quirky things but if that's the case, then do something to remember which is your left from right. Wear mittens that are labled, write it on your hand, take a piece of paper and write it on the paper - anything! Seriously, if you cannot instruct people the correct direction to go (not talking about cryptic clues...I'm talking about which way to turn) then you DON'T have any business writing clues. At the very least, take someone along with you and ask them "is this left or right" or give the clue to a friend that is a letterboxer and have them try and find it to see if it's correct before posting it on the website.

I for one would feel horribly guilty (and rightfully so) if someone was wandering around aimlessly through the woods because they turned the wrong way according to my directions. Now if they turned the wrong way and it's THEIR fault (clue says turn right and they turn left and turning right IS the correct way to go) then THEY need help. They need to take a helper out with them or take some tools to help them remember which way is l and r.

I realize that this is a game and half the fun is the journey...I get that - really - but if it's a specific direction like "turn left at the gravel path" and they're actually supposed to turn right, there's just no excuse for that. I'm sure it happens often and I'm sure I'll end up doing it sometime or another but you know I'll correct it if it ever does happen. I will try and take every precaution to make sure it doesn't happen....

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At the very least, take someone along with you and ask them "is this left or right" or give the clue to a friend

Technically, you should do this anyway. I always write the clue out, then try to find the box using my clues as written, or I have my son find it using the clues.

Unfortunately this is also a point that is not stressed enough with newbies usually. Clue testing is as important as clue writing IMHO.

Knit Wit

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In response to this and to continue what Knit Wit said, embarrisingly enough, I have a hard time with this. Yes, I know left from right. But sometimes, I will adamently tell you left when indeed it's right. I am picturing the right turn, pointing right, etc. and saying left. No idea why, I don't consider myself dumb by any means, it just happens. However, I do not beleive I have no business writing clues. A bit harsh, really.

I'm the same way - left, right, east, west........ I have a hard time, and double check myself constantly. Even so - mistakes get made - and they are just that - honest mistakes, caused by a human being who is not perfect ;-)) But I enjoy letterboxing, enjoy planting, and if someone thinks I've written the wrong direction in my clues, please let me know - I'll send them a special letterboxing prize if I've messed up ;-)) (Just give me some time to figure out what the prize will be!)

Our fair city has an interstate "loop" - which actually goes through the city, while the real interstate travels south-ish. This loop is designated by East and West. I've lived here 15 years, and finally can get around - because I recognize the exits, and know that West is "toward home". To send me into a panic, put me in some place where I've got go East or West to get somewhere and I have to make a split decision regarding an off ramp or something - 99.9% of the time, I'll be wrong! Thank goodness, I can read a map and I rely on maps heavily. My dream gift would be an entire set of DeLorme maps for the whole US - or South East for starters ;-))

Mama Fox, GC (Geographically Challanged)

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one :) Really, it just kind of upset me how harsh the inital. Really, I'm sure that everyone has something they get wrong in clues at some point. I didn't say I didn't check my clues. I mean, that's what my husband does :) I've only published a few I can think of that were still mixed up- and since one way sent you into a lake, there wasn't tto much question :)

I'm sorry, really. I just think there are nice ways to say things and rude ways to say things. Think of how you're coming off. Being a jerk or being mean about it isn't the best way to come off. Khrama, stinks and it's always been my experience that when someone acts like this, when they wind up making a mistake, it will be worse.

Maybe I'm overreacting, but really, I just took offense to the official post. Sorry.

I wasn't going to get involved, but I, too, took offense to someone new to AQ coming in less than one week ago and criticizing the "way things are." People make mistakes, and I know for a fact that even a Purdue graduate can sometimes mistake a left hand from a right hand (I'm not a Boilermaker.) You don't need to apologize, Desi.

it is actually fun trying to figure out when to use "Desi-Lefts" versus real ones *grin*

That cracks me up! =) Desi-left! Can I use that in the glossary? =) I haven't had to deal with any Desi-lefts, but I have come across plenty of other Fill-in-the-blank-lefts.

Sometimes when Amanda is driving and I'm using the map for navigation, I'll have the map upside down just to keep track of where everything is. But sometimes I get lazy and don't, so if Amanda is driving south, I'll say turn left (which really should be right), so she'll move over in the left hand lane and I'll start shouting "Map left! Map left!"

Good times. =)

Sometimes when I just plain get the word wrong, even while driving north, I'll blame it on map left. *nodding*

I know my left from my right, and east from west, and port from starboard, but with all of them, I have to think very carefully before giving a direction, and even then I don't always get it right. =)

-- Ryan

Whether I've been around for less then a week or for years matters little. Common sense is common sense. Right is right and left is left and from what I understand, that will always be the case. So the "way things are" is to write incorrect directions? That's ludicrous.

I was ok with this until someone told me to cut people some slack. I don't buy that...what if there was an incorrect direction (left or right, etc) on one of these major hikes that some of these men that are in much better shape then myself go on? Can you imagine hiking freaking 5 or 6 miles because someone told you to go left and they really were meaning right?

All I'm saying is if you have trouble with l/r north/south, etc take some tools with you when you write the clues to MAKE SURE you get it right or take someone with you OR don't plant letterboxes at all and just find them.

I'm sorry that some of you took offense to what I said but you will learn quickly that I am probably the most honest person you will deal with and I do not censor my own speech just in case someone might be offended. Just because you were offended doesn't mean that I said or did something wrong. Please tell me this isn't a "good ol' boys club?" (or good ol' girls?)

I'm a newbie and I will just sit in the corner and not say anything.....

nwbulldog,

I don't think this is any sort of club at all, other than a collection of letterboxers.

I'm not known to hold my tongue at all, and I say some pretty off color things, but I am more than happy than to call them my "opinion," not the way things should or should not be.

I think that there are times for rancor and times for judgement. I did not back off the comments I made about Jerry Falwell (prior to you joining AQ) because I feel he deserved them all and more. I also made sure to note that my opinion was directed at Mr. Falwell, not Christians, churchgoers, or evangelists in general.

I think some of the backlash you are experiencing is do to the fact that in the short time you have been a member, multiple posts of yours have perhaps insulted long-standing members of this community. And this IS a community, of people who have a similar interest.

I agree with those who have said to "learn the group and the personalities in it." Even though I have said things that are much more controversial, I don't get nearly the reaction you get, as I think people understand where I am coming from and see my bent sense of humor.

Perhaps if you let people see the generous, accepting side of nwbulldog, you can then let your devil out a little.

Mr. Yuk

I am probably the most honest person you will deal with and I do not censor my own speech just in case someone might be offended.

You don't have to censor your own speech--just show a little courtesy. You're entitled to your opinions, but your tone of voice sounds harsh and angry, though, which is far more problematic from my point of view.

If you don't like someone's clues, stop looking for their boxes. There are other people who will enjoy looking for the box, despite incorrect directions. I'd hate to take boxes away from them just because you felt the person who planted them doesn't write directions to your satisfaction.

Just look for boxes that do have directions to your satisfaction. Every letterbox has an audience, a special group of people, who will find the box enjoyable. The solution is not to ban boxes that do not suit your preferences--if we did that for everyone, there wouldn't be any letterboxes left to find!--but rather just to find the boxes that most appeal to you.

I'd ban the drive-by boxes if I had my way. I don't really have much use for those. I'd rather hike five or six miles in the wrong direction on a beautiful trail than look for a drive-by box. =)

-- Ryan

You might think longevity in our group matters little, and that is where you are missing the point. It does matter; it matters to a number of US. It appears you are very rigid and you expect nothing less from the rest of us. You will be disappointed if you maintain that way of thinking.

I don't take offense to what you are saying, so much as the offense I take in the manner you are expressing it. Before you hit SEND, you might want to preview your entire post and look at it from a a stranger's perspective. Ask yourself, "how does this sound?" Proofreading does not equate to censorship.

Your "honesty" is transmitting as "obnoxious" on my screen. I, too, can be honest, but I try to get along well with others. Sometimes I succeed; sometimes I fail.

~speedsquare

Let's call this one a dead lemur and be done with it. Everybody has said their piece. I also think we're way off the orginal topic. Let's get back to discussing boxes and other stuff.

Mr. Yuk

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That cracks me up! =) Desi-left! Can I use that in the glossary? =) I haven't had to deal with any Desi-lefts, but I have come across plenty of other Fill-in-the-blank-lefts.

Technically you should ask her but since we use that phrase even when actually boxing with her, I figure she probably doesn't mind. I have to agree with the one she mentioned, the best ever Desi-Left was the one that said "take 11 steps to the left" and there was a lake at about 5 steps...

How interesting. I find that generally, people who say they are "just being honest" are really being rude, abrupt and abrasive. If this was not your intent, you may need to adjust how you write.

Get in a car with me and you WILL be saying "YOUR OTHER LEFT!" multiple times. I do check my directions, multiple times. But the only perfect person in this world was born over 2,000 years ago and it ain't me. And it ain't you.

I have 41 plants that have been found 100's of times. I have made mistakes, had them pointed out and have then changed the clue. That's the point to someone saying that you have "only" been here for a week or more. You haven't had enough experience with plants or finds to know what you are talking about.

I have now read several of your posts and you can keep your self-serving "honesty". I got better things to do.

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it is actually fun trying to figure out when to use "Desi-Lefts" versus real ones *grin*

Hey, around here we call that Mother of Five-itis! Picture, you're on the trail...you have five kids...you are trying to count steps while keeping the baby from falling in the bayou and the kindergartener from wandering into the snakey high grass. Your clues don't end up entirely accurate...but your finders after a while know this and figure that into their calculations.

And after a while, you get better at keeping the toddler from beating on her sister while counting steps and figuring out whether you mean left or right.

Me? I have the darnedest time with east and west. I never mix up north and south. I have an incredible sense of direction and always know which way I need to go, but sometimes, I mislabel east and west. I don't know why. Luckily, usually teamking figures it out first when I write clues (will miss that when she moves away)...and gently lets me know.

You'll quickly figure out which planters' clues you can follow and which ones aren't your speed. In the meantime, I might refrain from being so absolute in my judgments, at least until you've found some more and hidden some yourself (and realized that no, people don't understand which pine tree you mean, even though it was crystal clear to you).

dewberry

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Hey, around here we call that Mother of Five-itis! Picture, you're on the trail...you have five kids...you are trying to count steps while keeping the baby from falling in the bayou and the kindergartener from wandering into the snakey high grass. Your clues don't end up entirely accurate...

Oh, how well I know what you mean! :) I have three girls, but they are all so young that they have no idea, or interest, in knowing why I am walking through the woods looking for a place to plant a letterbox.

Ryan mentioned having no use for drive-by's. I have to laugh a little and think that if he was trying to letterbox with toddlers he would have a new found appreciation for them. Walk a fourth of a mile with a toddler and you hear, "I need go potty!". And then there's the "Carry me!" and when you have TWO that are toddlers, well you can't really carry two of them, so then they fight with each other.

So, yes, by default, my letterboxes are always short walks and SOMETIMES I get my directions confused, too. Just ask Mr. Sunshine Kitty who deciphered a cryptic clue that was very difficult only to find that I had switched the equations for the route they needed to take. Amazingly, they found it anyway and let me know so I could fix the problem.

Which brings me to the point that if a letterbox has already been found by a couple of people, that's a good sign that the clues are fine and you won't walk 5 miles for nothing. Another suggestion is to always carry a letterbox with you that you can plant if you find yourself 5 miles in the wrong direction. That way the day's not "wasted", though I would be in heaven if I could even GET 5 miles down ANY path for ANY reason, as I am perpetually mothering little ones and bound to the world of drive-by's and short, slow paced walks. :) I'll take what I can get, though, and make the most of it.

-Quiet Place

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I'd ban the drive-by boxes if I had my way. I don't really have much use for those. I'd rather hike five or six miles in the wrong direction on a beautiful trail than look for a drive-by box. =)

-- Ryan

Spoken like a man without short-legged children in tow! lol.

So, being also relatively new to letterboxing, I have some opinions... I find that some (tho really, very few) clues are poorly written and that usually when I'm having trouble finding a box it's due to insufficient imagination on my part. Or else, from scanning the clues at the outset, making an assumption about which way I'm supposed to go and not referring back to them at critical times. There is one letterboxer in my area whose boxes i LOVE but I have the darndest time deciphering her clues. It's just that other point of view that others discussed earlier. As I have found more of her boxes, I find I'm quicker at figuring out the clues; getting to "know" her style through repetition and to be able to notice things in the field as SHE does rather than how I do. Funnily enough, I recently planted my first box and SHE's having trouble finding it! I know the clues aren't totally off because others have found it. This is a skill you have to hone if you're going to letterbox and it DOES get easier, just as any other thing you practice does. Maybe you could try to hook up with a more experienced letterboxer in your area for an afternoon's jaunt and sort of pick their brains as to how they interpret things. I do think it's easier with another person to bounce ideas off of.

I would never say ban anyones letterbox no matter how poorly the clues are written. One thing that I haven't experienced is the fun of placing a letterbox and writing the clues! I would like to try it someday.

Really not much more to say about this other then I nearly disagree with anyone regarding the longevity of being part of a group and the connection to writing left in your clue when you mean left. And I REALLY don't see an absolute like that having ANYTHING to do with the Iraq war or furniture! LMAO!

How long should I wait to bring this up again? 3 months? 6 months? A year? I know there is probably a strong artsy fartsy crowd that is involved in this past time which would explain the fragile egos and supersensitive feelings. That's cool...I understand.

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I know there is probably a strong artsy fartsy crowd that is involved in this past time which would explain the fragile egos and supersensitive feelings. That's cool...I understand.

I will say that I have rarely seen anyone couch such a nasty insult in a phrase that is superficially meant to seem to calm the raging storm.

Bless your heart anyway...

Knit Wit

I think you made your attitude in these posts loud and clear with that last comment NWB. I believe that there is room here for everyone, but if that is going to happen then courtesy is a must. Maybe you are just one of those people who get a power trip from insulting people anonymously or perhaps you really have no idea how you are coming off in these posts. Its hard to believe that you have no idea because many people have tried to tell you. I've only been around for six months & I've never had a problem on these boards from day #1. You will be treated the way you treat others around here. If you want some respect, try showing some first.

Bubba

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How long should I wait to bring this up again? 3 months? 6 months? A year? I know there is probably a strong artsy fartsy crowd that is involved in this past time which would explain the fragile egos and supersensitive feelings. That's cool...I understand.

Dude, you better duck or put on your bulletproof tuxedo, 'cause there might be a whole lot of artsy-fartsy ammunition flying your way once everybody wakes up and logs onto AQ.

Just one more thing....

It is your misteps and your misadventures that will become your "war stories" to be told to laughing new friends over beers at future gatherings...and the memories of those which will keep you tolerant of newbie mistakes (because you know you made some whoppers of your own).

Believe me, even when it's an error in the clues that leads to the wild goose chase, it still can be humorous (occasionally even at the time, but usually later). We've all been there. We all understand. It's fun. Even when it's frustrating.

dewberry

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Technically you should ask her but since we use that phrase even when actually boxing with her, I figure she probably doesn't mind

No, I don't mind at all :) I believe Cory started saying this originally And now, it is said to me all the time, on any trail, no matter who I'm with if I am the one reading or giving directions. :)

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I have to agree with the one she mentioned, the best ever Desi-Left was the one that said "take 11 steps to the left" and there was a lake at about 5 steps...

And I must agree, Cory, this is my favorite ever mess-up... glad we can all laugh about it!