I recently attended a workshop about child safety on the internet. Some of the best tips:

- Computer should never be in their bedroom or any other private room. It should be in the kitchen, living room, office or other high-traffic area. Parents should also check in on them often. (No wireless laptops for tweens/teens.) No internet connections in bedrooms.

- Never let your child give our personal or family information

- Discourage practice of entering contests or otherwise providing your email address to entities that will provide this information to other parties. They could be bombarded with inappropriate junk mail. Instruct them to NEVER respond to junk mail. Once they respond, the junk mailers know they have a "live" email address.

- Create an Internet Usage Contract with your child, setting expectations and limits clearly ahead of time along with consequences for breaking the contract. (Samples are provided in some of the links below.)

- If your child is allowed to IM, require them to "Okay" any new chat buddies with you before they are added to the list. Limit the number of buddies.

- Turn on junk mail features provided by your email providers that cut of junk mail from your main incoming mail.

- Discourage use of myspace.com. Even if your child doesn't provide any personal information, their buddies often provide information about their friends. Any determined pervert could easily track down almost anyone based on the information they do have on their page and their friend's pages. Never have them use their neighborhood name, place of employment, or school. Also, no one under the age of 18 is supposed to have a myspace.com account. The site itself really can't do anything to verify the person is 18, but you should ensure your child knows it is illegal and against the site policies for anyone under the age of 18 to have a myspace page.

- If you would like to use spyware to be able to know every single keystroke made on your child's computer, you can download/purchase many different ones. This guy recommended spectorsoft.com. He said you could instruct the program to send you an email every time certain key words are typed. There are others out there as well.

- Some websites that may be helpful for more information are:
www.msnbc.ms.com/id/10912603 (this is their catch-a-predator series)
www.parentsinternetguide.com
www.fbi.gov/publications/pguide/pguidee.htm
www.kidshield.com
www.missingkids.com
www.getnetwise.org

- Stay involved. Ask questions! Let them know you're there!

I don't know your personal situation with work and responsibilities and what not, but I'll compare this to our situation. We have an 11 year old daughter who is forever wanting to stay "home alone" while we run errands and such. She hates trips to the grocery store, but we will not allow her to be home without supervision until she "proves" that she is responsible enough to handle any situation that could arise (someone at the door, a bagel injury, the bag of popcorn bursting into flames in the microwave ...) and so far, it's a no go. If it's a possibility for you, perhaps not allowing him the freedom to be without adult supervision until he can follow your house rules would flip a switch for him. A few trips to the store when he'd rather be home might lead him to an ah-ha moment. Like being grounded in reverse. Of course, hiding the power cord is a fantastic idea ... but he sounds quite clever ... has he ever found that hiding place you use for birthday/holiday gifts? Maybe you could take the power cord with you when you leave.

Padfoot Treehuggers (Angela) :)

The power cord idea is one I've heard a lot, but they are too easy for the children to find a replacement and hide from parents. Key loggers are just a way to spy on behavior, not prevent it.

Consider a removable hard drive bay, take the drive with you... the machine won't boot without it = no Internet.

If it's a laptop, simply take it with you.

Remove the home phone (many don't use it anyway and stick with cell phones) and switch to Clear Wire which doesn't require a phone line. Take the modem with you to work.

Offer to assist neighbors in securing their networks and that would keep kids from connecting a laptop to open Internet access points.

I'm sure you know about software and hardware firewalls. These offer timed access to the Internet, but are not as secure as the above methods.

If he is sneaking behind your back to extent of setting up a dial up account, he will use the Internet at his friends houses. Not all parents restrict children, especially when they have friends over. One Mother told me that she didn't want to embarrass her daughter in front of her friends.... so the child was free to do what she wished with friends there... her friends were as well. My step-son was no longer allowed to visit. Get to know the parents of his friends and let them know your concerns about unmonitored Internet access. Usually they are looking for solutions themselves. You can offer to help each other.

If he has money of his own, and is allowed to go out of the house, he only has to buy a soda to use the Internet at many Internet Cafes. Virtually free access with no limits at all.

If he goes to the library, they allow restricted access. However, many chat apps are server side now and don't require installation. Forums are often accessible at many Libraries.

There is no easy answer and one solution will not work for everyone, probably one solution isn't even going to work for one family.

I wish you luck~
Tee

I'm reading all these ideas to thwart your kids from using the internet while parents are not around.

Now by measure of explanation, I am older, but the threat of being caught by me prevented my kids from doing lots they shouldn't have. I always told them I would find "out" and a couple of lucky circumstances for me presented themselves to prove my point to my kids. They were believers. And by the way, I never believed in sparing the rod......properly applied a few times, and the recipient becomes a believer. Oh, and I would never say my kids were angels and never did anything....I'm not naive.

We also box as a family for the most part, but my daughter has a separate account (and as of yesterday, we are both premium members). Granted she is 14, and is very responsible with her interactions on Atlasquest (and the internet in general), but she also does some hunting when I am not with her. Her Girl Scout troop has discovered the joys of letterboxing, and she has been with them at least once. Also, she enjoys being able to log her own plants. Truth be known, she has made quite a name for herself on here (all positive) and I have become known as the CDQ taxi service. However, that does not mean that I do not have access to her account at all times and that I don't check it regularly.

Hope

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Has anyone any suggestions other than putting a physical lock on the room with the PC in it?

I have a friend who did just that, and the kid figured out how to pick the lock. *shaking head* He was only caught because he forgot to lock up after finishing on the computer!

-- Ryan

I've been watching this thread with concerned interest, although my kids are no where near ready to be unsupervised on the computer. Probably never sounds good!

But what I've got to say is if you have to devise schemes to keep your kids off your computer ...hiding power cords, locking up the PC, etc... AND they manage to still figure out a way around your safeguards, I think you've probaly got bigger things to worry about than unsuperivsed PC access!! (just horrified what else a lock-picking kid would do outside the house!!)

MM/123F.

I just finished watching The Squid and the Whale which has some unsettling things that the kids get up to while the parents are away. Other "horror films for parents" are Thirteen and Men Don't Leave.

-Amanda from Seattle

I unhooked the keyboard when I didn't want my son to use the computer.

LW PhD
"Nice Counts"

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I unhooked the keyboard when I didn't want my son to use the computer.

LW PhD

I think there's still a way to use the computer without a keyboard. I could be wrong, but I think there's a sort of 'on-screen' keyboard that one can use the mouse to click the keys you want to hit.

*shrugs*
Personally, I don't think kids should be blocked from accessing the same things that everyone else accesses. I grew up with no restrictions of any kind. I watched the movies I wanted to watch, I read books I wanted to read, and I browsed the areas of the internet I wanted to browse.
I've used websites such as MySpace. Sure, trouble can be had there, but I was never involved in it. My parents taught me not to talk to strangers, and especially not to give out personal information in such a way. I'm still a bit worrisome when I put personal information into websites when I'm making an online order.
But my point is that eventually, kids will access the things your'e trying to block them from seeing. And by blocking those areas, you're just making them more interesting.
Sure, there's porn and racism and god knows what else out there, but if your children are brought up properly, then they won't be browsing those areas of the internet anyway.

Of course, to each his own- they're your kids, you bring them up however you wish. I would never try to tell anyone otherwise.
But I always found that when I was a kid, blocking me from something was unnecessary and stupid- I was swift enough to figure out what was good for me and what was bad. What I should see and what I shouldn't. Not to mention, blocking something from many kids is just making them more interesting, as I said before- the kids might not actually WANT to see or do whatever it is you're blocking them from, but the fact that it's off-limits makes it appealing.

Anyway, I'll stop rambling and go back to listening to my professor :D
Just kidding, I'm not in class at the moment! :P

CQ

I think that there should be limits, but it's the DOING THINGS BEHIND MY BACK that really gets me. If I said No then respect that. I KNOW that my 14 year old son is on the computer even if his electronics time is all used up, when I am not here. At least I know he is home. He has ADD and reading a book etc. really isn't an answer for him. He knows about preditors and no personal stuff. I guess I just hope he uses his brain and a light goes on that he was taught what was right and wrong. My tracking of his actions show that he is only "talking" with friends (at this point). He knows I look too.

Teens seem to find away around most adult restrictions if they really want to. I remember being sneaky and being caught. Not always pleasant. Respect goes both ways. They respond better to that I think.

LL/ZZ

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Teens seem to find away around most adult restrictions if they really want to.

I don't mind this thread, but for those who are tuning in late, AQ does allow teens onto this site. It's the pre-teens I'm more concerned about. There really shouldn't be anything on this site that might scar a teen for life.

Teens can certainly get themselves into plenty of trouble, but they're smarter and larger than pre-teens and obviously need to be handled differently. ;o)

-- Ryan

Sure, there's porn and racism and god knows what else out there, but if your children are brought up properly, then they won't be browsing those areas of the internet anyway.


If only it were that easy. :-)

I actually didn't take away the keyboard to censor him. I took it away when he didn't do his chores. And yes, you CAN use the computer without the keyboard/mouse, but for his uses it was a pain in the ass and not worth the trouble.

After being on myspace and seeing the crotchshots of girls in high school and college..posing in their underwear...I wish someone would shield ME from seeing such trash. And I guarantee their parents don't have a clue.

LW PhD
"Nice Counts"

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If you are under 13 you should be a part of a letterboxing team with an older person like mom or dad or an older brother or sister.

That's great, but there is no way to make a team account on AQ. That is why I made separate logins for each member of our team, some of whom are kids. And why can't DK have his cootie listed under his own name? He had the idea, he carved it and he planted it. If one of my kids wants to do a postal or plant of their own, I will supervise and assist if needed, but they are just as legitimate letterboxers as anyone else (and since they've been doing this for four years, I think even my youngest has a pretty good grasp of how to plant, clue and find.) I always put me as owner so I can keep track of their boxes, but they get a kick out of getting the find reports on their own email too.

And how would you know whose personal traveller was whose if they were all on my account? How would you log that that one kid and I did one event/box/whatever, and Dad and another kid did something else?

They have no interest in chatting, posting or email, and I cannot imagine anything on AQ that I would object to them seeing. If for some reason one of them started being a problem on the site, Ryan just has to let me know and I'll cut their access off. (Actually, in our case, Ryan is close enough that he could just come over and administer the beatdown himself, if needed.)

Mariette
(dbltall of Team Garlic)

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If you are under 13 you should be a part of a letterboxing team with an older person like mom or dad or an older brother or sister.

That's great, but there is no way to make a team account on AQ.

I may be speaking out of turn, but I don't think that's the context of the quote. I think he meant that anyone under 13 shouldn't be out and about, on their own, in potential wilderness or urban areas searching for boxes without some semblance of adult supervision.

And, going with that theory, if you're not out on your own, you have no reason to need an account on your own.

Just my take on it...

JPMcD

First of all, you're yelling. Did you know that? :)

Next, laws regarding the Internet get weird under age 13, but in Illinois, a child is legally old enough to supervise themselves offline for up to 23 hours. At age 13, they're old enough to supervise another child for the same period. As a parent, I disagree with the guidelines, but we had to learn the law for our Child Care badges.

Finally, if you keep up with the brain research gurus, you might have paid attention to a study released..um..I want to say three years ago. It stated the finding that the average brain doesn't reach maturity until age 30. Females, on average, with all other factors being similar, achieve brain maturity 2-3 years earlier. No, I don't remember the name of the study but my professor at Chicago State University passed out copies and I'm sure I kept it...um..in that pile..maybe...

Soapbox, anyone?

dbltall,

I just read your profile, and I just have to say that I love your answer to the question about the 522,386.3 different ways to die.

Hee!

Singing Wolf
(randomly wandering through people's profiles to avoid shampooing the carpets)

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Sure, there's porn and racism and god knows what else out there, but if your children are brought up properly, then they won't be browsing those areas of the internet anyway.

Sorry CQ, but that is the most naive statement I have ever read. I agree with Jenni P McD - if only it were that easy.

TG

"call me what ever you think I am (outdated, old fashioned, you know words like that) BUT Why would a child under 13 be on ANY computer site without an adult in the near vincinity??????"

BECAUSE...

My 9-year old has been typing before she could talk. Her first toys included a broken keyboard.

My boys all received laptops for graduation presents from 8th grade. Two of them were 13, but the youngest of the group was 12 for another 3 months.

I expect my children to learn what's acceptable, and what's not. Just like they learned farting in church was something to be avoided if possible. Will they accidentally be exposed to porn? Sure. Just like they were when the neighbor left her cable on and the blinds open. We learn to turn away.

When I taught them to roller skate, we learned about helmets and knee pads. When we learned to fry eggs, we explored hot pads and what to do when you forgot the hot pad and had to treat the burn.

Yes, I check their caches regularly. Yes, I have their passwords and review e-mail on a surprise basis. Yes, they're expected to tell me about new sites they intend to visit beyond the research paper fly-by. No, I don't watch over their shoulders the entire time they're online.

They're going to meet bizarre folk online and have to learn to deal with them safely. I would do my children no favors hiding them behind the curtain. They all picked out 'safe names' when they were still in Kindergarten. It's no different than learning how to cross the street alone or Stranger Danger lessons. They won't learn any younger!

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I would do my children no favors hiding them behind the curtain. They all picked out 'safe names' when they were still in Kindergarten. It's no different than learning how to cross the street alone or Stranger Danger lessons. They won't learn any younger!

I've got to agree with Ish here. I consider online safety to be an addition to the current responsibility of teaching our children about Stranger Danger. Computers are ubiquitous in our society and they're not going away.

One of the first things my kids learned is to ask me before clicking on ads on sites they visit. I periodically check through their favorites list and online history to see where they've been.

One advantage I have though is that we have one computer for the family in the main living area. They can't surf without me knowing what they're seeing and they know I walk like a cat and have eyes in the back of my head. They are also still in an obedient stage so that they ask permission before going to a new site, etc.

I'm glad the rules are there to protect kids but the bottom line is, if the kid is going to circumvent the rules, there's really no way to stop them. Though to disable the computer is a good idea. Maybe by removing the monitor cable. Not so easy to find a spare one of those in the house...

Knit Wit

I've been keeping silent on this thread since I thought it had run its course......

3CATFAM is a TEAM. There are four of us, two parental units and our kids (ages 12 and 14). Does my 12 year-old sometimes hop onto AQ to look up clues? YEP. Do I permit her on the message boards? NOPE.

Should a responsible 12 year-old (e.g. Sleepy Cat) be banned simply because of her youth? No. My kids haven't asked for their own ids or their own accounts. If they were to do so, and I believed them sufficiently responsible, I wouldn't object. Remember, this website is freely accessed by anyone without logging in.

Of course we're not sending our teens out on their own, but we are affording them some autonomy. As websites go, although AQ is not designed specifically to be kid-friendly, this is pretty family friendly. It's not exactly buttspank.com (and now all you perves are going to see if that's a real link--I don't know, I just made it up in an attempt to inject levity).

To refocus the discussion: what is the impetus for restricting membership? Have there been nefarious acts by our younger members?

In many ways, I thought AQ was a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of website. And hey, if my kid does something that jeopardizes the AQ community, then freeze the 3CATFAM account.

One of the much much earlier comments in this thread was something to the effect that while we protect our children, we need to give them some freedom. Now, it's not AQs job to fill that role, nor am I suggesting it to be. I'm saying that each parent will raise their kid as they see fit. And if I give my kid permission to search clues or record finds on AQ, that's my decision. Ultimately, the adult (me) is responsible for anything done on my account.

A final note: I am not suggesting, nor do I think anyone thus far has suggested, that our fellow members are "mean" in this line of questioning. I think it's a legitimate dialog. As a parent, I am often annoyed by other parents who let their kids into settings that I don't think are kid appropriate ("I left my kids at home, you should have done the same"). I think AQ has a right to set guidelines as necessary to protect AQ and our online community. I think beyond that, each member will apply those guidelines as appropriate to their individual circumstances. And if a younger member proves a poor member of our community, there are means to control the damage.

Renee
3CATFAM

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what is the impetus for restricting membership? Have there been nefarious acts by our younger members?

I don't think that is the case at all.
I think this thread initially began because someone was upset with Ryan because a person under the age of 13 couldn't have their own account.
It's not Ryan's fault. That is the law, he's just upholding it.
If he didn't, he could be is serious legal trouble.

AHA! I see.

Fair enough. If that's the law, then an adult needs to be responsible for the account. If they choose to permit their child the use of that account, that's their choice, but the adult is ultimately responsible.

I fully agree, Ryan can't be put in a position of legal peril, nor would I ever suggest that.

Thanks for clarifying.

Renee

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A final note: I am not suggesting, nor do I think anyone thus far has suggested, that our fellow members are "mean" in this line of questioning.

Just adding a note to clarify where the word "mean" came from in this thread originally.

The original post in this thread was simply entitled "mean" and it contained a message by a person whose profile stated he or she was only 10 years old.

The 10 year old in question asked for everyone who agreed it was "mean" for AQ to disallow accounts for those under age 13 to join in the protest and make complaints.

That post was deleted, but the responses and further discussions regarding kids' participation in letterboxing and use of computers, etc. have been ongoing.

Cheers.

MisterSnarky

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It's not exactly buttspank.com (and now all you perves are going to see if that's a real link--I don't know, I just made it up in an attempt to inject levity).

*laughing* I'm not going to check if that's a real site or not, but I once made up a url to inject levity into a Great Adventure of mine, but when people received it as e-mail, it automatically turned it into a clickable link which, as it turned out, did go to a very real website. I didn't find out until later when someone replied that they followed the link and was HORRIFIED by the stuff they found. (You have to realize how conservative this guy is to really appreciate the humor in the situation.)

I don't make up URLs anymore, even for attempting to inject levity, unless I check it first. =)

-- Ryan

Ha! Ok, this is not for the timid or easily insulted, however, it IS pretty darn funny...

The Top 10 Unintentionally Worst Company URLs
http://independentsources.com/2006/07/12/worst-company-urls/

-wassamatta_u

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It's not exactly buttspank.com

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*laughing* I'm not going to check if that's a real site or not, but I once made up a url to inject levity into a Great Adventure of mine, but when people received it as e-mail, it automatically turned it into a clickable link which, as it turned out, did go to a very real website. I didn't find out until later when someone replied that they followed the link and was HORRIFIED by the stuff they found.

ROFL!

Okay, I give in. I'm checking, because that's the kind of sick, twisted person I am.

...

It's real. Just a page full of links, but.... Disturbing looking links.

Yikes.

Seriously... Yikes.

Singing Wolf
*still blushing*

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Okay, I give in. I'm checking, because that's the kind of sick, twisted person I am.

...

It's real. Just a page full of links, but.... Disturbing looking links.

Yikes.

Seriously... Yikes.

I knew some one would go look. I was afraid of my computer being attacked by viruses or porn or something so thanks for taking on the risk for us all!
chadams

Thank you, wassamatta_u, for posting that link. Way too funny!

TG