My niece (5 yrs old) came over for a sleepover last night, and I promised her I would take her out letterboxing this morning. So, bright and early this morning we got all bundled up, and away we went. She wanted to take my dog with us. I thought this might be a good idea, being that I was going to be in a wooded area with a small child...letterboxing alone. She really wanted to find Hales Angel's "Dog Wood", and it is right down the street from us. This was supposed to be her first find... When we went into the woods and were walking up the hill, I hear the sound of a dog panting, and his tags jingling. Then I hear the owner screaming for him to come back. All of the sudden I hear this other dog start growling and notice that he is showing his teeth. So, I scooped up my neice and yelled for the owner to come get his dog. At the same time I quickly grabbed my mace out of my dog's backpack. So here I stand in the woods with my dog's leash wound around my legs, my neice up near my head, this other dog lunging at my dog, and I am attempting to open my mace(I was going to use it on the other dog). The next thing I know the other dog's owner comes running towards me. I figured like any responsible dog owner he was trying to grab his dog. (Of course he has already deamed himself unresponsible....) What happens next still angers me beyond all reason! He grabs MY dog, and throws him on the ground into a submissive behavior. He has my Shepherd rolled over on his back and is straddling him! Thank God my dog is friendly otherwise this man wouldn't have had a face. He has his hands around my dog's muzzle and is yelling at him to stop being dominant. That is when I unleashed the entire can of mace on this man's face. He very quickly jumped off my dog and started crying while rolling around on the forest floor. I called 911 on my cell phone. The police came. (4 cars!) Evidenlty the mace that my uncle gave me for Christmas was mace that the police officers use, and it is extermely hard to wash/wipe off... OOPS! The man wanted me arrested for assult. I told the officer HE is the one that should be arrested for assult. My poor LEASHED dog, who couldn't get away from the crazy man. I explained to the officer what had started the entire scene. She asked me if I had any other weapons on me. I explained to her that I also have Tazer in the doggie backpack. They put me, my niece, and our dog in the back of the cruiser. I just knew I was going to jail. They talked to the owner of the other dog, and came back to the cruiser. When the officer came back she offered to drive us home, and then explained that she wasn't going to sight anyone today. She said that I acted in self defense, and explained to the other dog owner that he should be in trouble for having his dog off leash, and assulting my dog. She also told him he was darn lucky he didn't get tazed or that my dog didn't bite him! What a day! I think we will stay off of the trail for just a little while.....

heart still pounding,
Dog Lover

WOW what an adventure! OMG. Makes me think about what could happen out there. My mind has always been on a happy family adventure... somehow crazy men with wild beasts never occured to me. I know. Denial -I try not to watch the news. I'm glad you, your niece and your dog are ok!

~Queen Beeloved

I don't know why, but something tells me that the other dog was a pit bull...

Glad you escaped unharmed and unarrested!

Thank goodness you were prepared and had planned ahead. It's a good reminder for all of us!

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something tells me that the other dog was a pit bull...

Seems to me that the man was the pit bull!!

FG

OMG

1. I'm so glad your dog, not to mention you and your niece, were not injured.

I got some very good advice lately to bring a walking stick with us when we are letterboxing (thanks Pyratemates). I have several that my dear Bob made for me and I think I'll be bringing one along everywhere we go.

Holy crow...what an adventure!
Unbelievable.....wow
I'm so glad that you are all ok. I hope this didn't scare your niece away from letterboxing.

I understand that you were angry and upset, but was spraying mace in this man's face *really* self-defense? Was he harming *you* in any way?

Oh my Goodness!!!!!! I'm so sorry for you. I feel like a stupid person for carring all that I do....ie, mace, air horn, cell phone, maps, poncho, flash light, first aid kit, and the list goes on and on my husband makes fun of me like I'm going to war insted of going LBing. I even have some dehydrated food packs......lol. But now I feel better than I ever have knowing that all of this just might come in handy. Call me a worry wart but I would have maced him and blew his ears out with my air horn.....lol

Take care
Your friend,
Kim

I understand that you were angry and upset, but was spraying mace in this man's face *really* self-defense? Was he harming *you* in any way?

Better safe than sorry... better a preemptive strike than a desperate defense.

The jerk will recover in a couple of days... and his dog will still be off-leash.

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I understand that you were angry and upset, but was spraying mace in this man's face *really* self-defense? Was he harming *you* in any way?

Bob sees it this way: if the guy would attack a defenseless dog, there's no way to know if he will turn you you or your children next. Better to disable him and call in the authorities.

While this was traumatic for everyone involved, your poor niece!

Having this man run in her general direction, watching him attack a dog, watching you spray mace and him moaning and miserable, having the police come, getting in the cruiser, listening to the confused exchange....I can NOT imagine as a five year old my daughter would've come through totally unscathed....pretty traumatic indeed! Hope she is doing doing better as the days go by....tell her dewdrop kid thinks she had quite an adventure and was a very brave girl to have all that happen around her. Tell her letterboxing can only get better!

dewdrop mom

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turn you you or your

Doh... you all read typo? right? **sheepish grin**

OH my, I am glad that you and your niece are doing fine, as well as your dog. I think that man's behavior was definitely uncalled for, especially with your dog on a leash. I think I certainly would have done the same!

I guess I will be more cautious when I am out letterboxing too!!!!

LtW

wow, you really had an adventure. I carry pepper spray with me too. I hope to never have to use it but what a scary thing you went through. That man had no right to jump your dog like taht. His dog was the one taht was not on a leash and should have been. What was he thinking?? Wow, I too would be angry. Especially since you had a little girl with you. How is she doing? I hope she is not traumatized by this. I will pray for her and you today.
KBgirl

She maced a man who had released an uncontrolled animal capable of doing her serious damage, a man whose demeanor gave her reason to believe he was about to harm the child she was protecting, and a man who was actively attempting to damage her property (her dog).

Any one of those descriptions justifies self-defense.

Furthermore, she was most likely frantic with fear and not deliberately intending him harm. Once the spray is in your hand, it's a normal reaction to depress the plunger. Most folks clench their hands when stressed or fearful.

And I would like to add... the police who were called to the scene didn't find fault in her actions... So I've been wondering... why should we? It's so easy to look on from the outside and critique someones decisions... but I would advise caution in doing so. Until you find yourself in the same circumstance, how can you possibly say what you would, should, could do? Thank you, Ish for addressing what I've been wanting to say as well!

~Queen Beeloved

"Do I read this right? You maced a guy for yelling at your dog? If you'd had a pistol would you have shot him?"

-n


NO, I maced the guy for sitting ON my dog, who was crying and trying to get away from the man. All the while the man has got my poor dog upside down, straddling him, and screaming at him about being a dominant dog! I yelled at the man to get off of my dag and to let go of him. He was attempting to teach my LEASHED dog a lesson in dominance. (He saw something about dog training on animal planet!) I love that dog, and I would protect him anyway I had too.

Read your post and immediately switched over to a site a bought pepper spray for myself and others in my family. I walk alone EVERY day with my dog in wooded areas, and don't think about bad things too much. (I wouldn't walk if I did) My worst thought is about being shot by a hunter. Orange suits don't always help. Your story is scary. I think that guy was pretty stupid to do that to a dog like a shepard. Most people think twice about that breed. I am going to print out your story and give it with the pepper spray I you don't mind.

Larva Lady of the Zelie Zips

Thanks Ish!

Best, Dog Lover


PS: The dog is fine. We just got back from the veterinarian. He has 3 bruised ribs, a toe nail that was torn off. and is on some pain medicine. The little girl is fine as well. We hid some stamps around the house for her to find. She was most upset about the dog being hurt. i promised we would box again at a later date.

Print away Larva Lady.... My friend has an doggie orange hunting vest her dog wears in the woods because she is afraid someone would mistake him for a deer. He is a big fawn colored Great Dane. He recently stiched the word DOG across the sides of it. She had an Irish Wolfhound before, and he was shot during deer season right in front of her. Very sad.

Best, DL

I totally believe that you did the right thing. My husband, an ex-police officer would agree. Don't overthink your decision in what you did. Especially as a female, our desire to protect a child is first and foremost, at least in my mind.

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The dog is fine. We just got back from the veterinarian. He has 3 bruised ribs, a toe nail that was torn off. and is on some pain medicine.

I don't normally jump into these discussions, but read the the sentance above, only subsitute just a few words: "The little girl is fine. We just got back from the doctor. She has 3 bruised ribs, a toe nail that was torn off, and is on some pain medicine."

Makes you feel quite different, doesn't it?

You can argue that a dog is not the same as a person, but a living creature is a living creature and none of them should be subject to such treatment, especially unprovoked. The guy got what he deserved and I probably would have done the same thing.

-AG

"He has 3 bruised ribs, a toe nail that was torn off. and is on some pain medicine."

Okay, I hope that silences any more remarks about you using undue force. You have an incredibly patient dog there.

Mommo

I would send the vet bill to the guy!

That shows how well trained your shepard is, he could have torn his face off and then you would have been in big trouble.

Glad everything turned out ok and your niece isnt traumatized too bad.

ps...where can a gal get a can of that mace?? I like to walk alone too.

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I've ran into several 'men' lately hanging around the parking lots and trail heads at Hoover Dam

I'm glad you mentioned this! I still haven't been able to get the new box there, but was planning on trying soon; without my husband. But knowing this I think I will wait until he can go too.

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I don't think its the women they are waiting on...LOL...

OOOhhhhhhh......got it!

DogLover, If I'd been in your shoes, I'd have done the same thing. Some man screaming and attacking me, my family OR my pet would have gotten the mace too.

Just yelling at the dog would have been scarey enough, but the man had to take it further and put his hands on your dog and attack your dog!! You must have been scared to death--that he'd have gone after either one of you after he'd beaten the dog into submission.

When someone is attacked (or even comes clost to an attack like that) its so tramatic and un-nerving. I know that fear will stay around for a while.. it will be hard to go boxing again (with or without a dog or a child) but I hope it wont be long before youre back to boxing in peace again.

cam

After reading this thread, I am disheartened by fellow boxers who would question the need to mace a person who appeared to be out of control and who attacked a leashed dog. Another response asked if she would have been next. I say better safe than sorry.........he was wrong and he suffered the consequences.
Zoe

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Also, they have a nice brand of pepper spray with red or green dye inside too.

Keep in mind that laws regarding possession and use of mace/pepper spray vary widely from state to state. Here is one site I found that sells it, and gives a rundown on some states' laws (though I would definitely check actual state statutes to be sure):

http://www.eisencorp.com/PEPPERSPRAY.html

In MA you have to be licensed to posses or sell it. Here in MN it's an age requirement. And there is a difference between pepper spray and mace, and some states have separate laws for each.

HTH,
ArtGekko