I'm sure a few of you've noticed I've been tweaking stuff. So first, let me discuss these messages boards.

They're being loved to death! =) Some might consider this good, and might consider it not so good, but it's something I have to deal with as the number of posts continue to grow and the number of people reading them continues to grow. The message boards are viewed more often than clues are!

One thing to keep in mind--I did not like any of the free message boards whose code I could find and use from other online sources. Anyhow, I kind of liked the challenge of making up message boards from scratch--which is pretty much what I've done with every feature on Atlas Quest. Those off-the-shelf solutions are fast to implement, but often full of security holes and can't be customized as much as I'd like. Thus, I usually like to create my own solutions.

But--and this is the important part--I had absolutely NO experience designing and building message boards. I've made mistakes along the way. After the first 1000 or so posts were made, AQ started coming to a crawl due to poorly designed queries. I fixed those, and the message boards continued humming along fine until there were about 10,000 messages. Once again, AQ started suffering. I rewrote almost all of the code, tweaked stuff, and got it running fast once again. And if history is any indication, I can probably expect to rewrite much of the code every time the number of messages grows 10-fold. By the time it reaches 100,000 message, AQ is going to have some major problems. It's not there yet, but my goodness, you folks are prolific posters. =) Check out those stats: http://www.atlasquest.com/aboutus/stats/ -- over 45,000 posts were made to Atlas Quest last year! Most of which happened in the second half of the year.

At this rate, it's not going to take long before AQ has 100,000 posts. Rather than wait for AQ to slow to a crawl, I'm doing a major redesign of the message boards to keep it purring smoothly. At least until it grows another 10-fold and I find myself scratching my head about how to go about supporting 10,000,000 posts. Lord, I hope that doesn't happen for a long, long time. =)

It'll likely take a few weeks before I'm done tweaking and fixing the message boards, so please be patient. It's for the long-term health of Atlas Quest. A good cause, I like to think. =) The "read all" button is currently not available, but that's not to say something similar won't take it place at some point. I'm rather fond of it myself. I'm also checking out several different message boards on other sites to see what I like (or not) and get ideas about how to handle the growing number of posts. It'll likely require getting used to some changes, but I hope it's more that the change itself is the confusing part rather than the new design being inherently confusing. Old habits die hard, as they say, but new habits will take getting used to.

On a totally unrelated note, I spent most of this morning figuring out how to buy and install an honest-to-goodness SSL certificate for AQ. Not a self-create certificate (which causes browsers to display an error about not recognizing me as a "certificate authority" but is perfectly secure). Not a certificate attached to my hosting provider (which causes browsers to display a warning about the domain not matching the one on the certificate). But a real, honest-to-goodness Atlas Quest SSL certificate.

It's an ugly thing really, but I finally figured it out and installed the certificate. =) I've also changed the login screen so it now requires people to log in from a secure connection. I've wanted to do that ever since I put AQ up but didn't have the money to pay for a genuine SSL certificate.

I'm not entirely sure of all the ramifications that a secure login might cause. Perhaps those who have set AQ to log in automatically might need to manually enter the site next time around. Maybe cookies sent during a secure connection can't be retrieved from an unsecured connection. Maybe nothing will happen and nobody would even notice the change. =) I'm not really sure since I don't have experience building websites that use SSL connections, so please excuse any mistakes I make along the way. I'll try to get them fixed as quickly as possible.

Right now, the login page is the only thing that's changed, and it's not even that noticeable. But how cool is that? Sending your password from your browser to Atlas Quest is now done over a completely secure connection. The likelihood of someone intercepting the password and using it for the own diabolical purposes was low, but it was possible. Now, it's not. =) (Of course, it still won't help if someone has installed keyboard tracking software on your computer and is logging the keystrokes before they even hit your browser, but I can't do much about that.) I've got some other ideas I want to use this SSL connection for, but for now, it's just being used for logging in to keep your password safe from snooping eyes. =)

Happy trails!

-- Ryan

Thanks Ryan!
I don't think I ever told you that. I really appreciate your efforts you put into making this all work right (even though I don't post much-love to read 'em) and tend to take it forget all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes to make a site run smoothly. It really is appreciated! Thank YOU!
Hope all is well!
Pink Panther

What hard work!
What satisfying results for you, I'm sure, and for us.
I for one like the added security.

I am impressed by your ability to work quickly with the program you've already established. It boggles my mind.

Enjoy tweaking! Thanks for listening when we have requests. And, thanks for the entire site.

~Mama Cache

I want to thank you for all your hard work, and the time and effort you put in to making a great site. I enjoy the site a lot, and I am hooked!!

I like the added security! Thank you for the tweaking!

LtW

It's pretty awe-inspiring to think that you've built this site from the ground up. I'm pretty new here, but I've been impressed by what you've been able to do.

That said, more robust forums would be a real nice addition. One package I like a lot is Invision Power Board:

http://www.invisionboard.com/board/

A good example can be found at (let me duck) http://forums.groundspeak.com/gc/ (the geocaching.com forums). They get a huge amount of traffic but seem to run great even when the geocaching site itself is bogged down. They also have a really nice feature set that is pretty easy to learn.

Thanks for your work on this site - we really appreciate it.

Jeff

This is probably dumb, so don't throw anything at me anybody, but why would you need to keep ALL of the posts from the message boards forever and ever anyway? After a certain time period, couldn't they be deleted? Then AQ, and you, Ryan, wouldn't have to deal with 10 quadrillion (or whatever) posts.
I don't say that because I don't appreciate everything about this site, but to try to make it easier on you. I know nothing I have to say could possibly be worth hanging onto indefinately, that's for sure!
Stacy

If you delete posts now, those little stars disappear with them.

Given that they're cute, I'd like to see the count and stars remain the same if the posts are deleted.

Of course, I'm no genius, and I have no idea what it would take to do that.

Ryan, you probably have better things to do than to have me that picky.

Thanks,Mama Cache

As for keeping old posts.... it's true, most of them probably have no reason to exist very long after they've been posted, but I like keeping them for history's sake. More than once I've searched the archives of the LbNA talk list to watch the 'evolution' of letterbox as it took place. It's historical. =) I'm kind of worried that someday Yahoo will get tired of hosting all of those old posts and start deleting the older ones. If they ever do that, there's going to be a lot of interesting letterboxing history lost forever.

As for the forums such as those found the geocaching website--it seems like most forums seem to be trending towards that setup, and there are a few boards I follow that use them, but I just can't get used to it. I always have trouble finding old posts and figuring out which posts I've read or not read. You click on a thread, and it'll show you the WHOLE thread instead of just the new posts which annoys me to no end.

And the other thing I don't like about them--there's TOO many bells and whistles. The AQ boards are deliberately simple. You won't see a bunch of flashing icons or that creepy happy face that's laughing and looks like it's about to regurgitate something. It's inconvenient at times, but I feel people can better express themselves and not get distracted by happy faces. Okay, I don't mind the happy face like =) -- I use them all the time myself -- but if it were an actual graphic, it tends to pull people away from what I'm saying and get them to look at silly icons that add almost no meaning to the text. So I haven't allowed it.

You can create links to other websites, but you can't make any word a link to whatever you want. I want people to know exactly where a link is going to take them BEFORE they click on it. Otherwise, people could post a message like "Check out this new letterboxing site!" and have the words "letterboxing site" link to a porno site. Okay, granted, the post would get deleted pretty quickly, but I think it's a good standard that people should know exactly where they're linking to before they start blindly following links.

Consequently, I'm drawn in more towards message boards that are simple, have few options, and can't really do anything except... well... post messages. =)

Even the message boards here are more complex than I prefer. I support threads because some people like them, but I'd be just as happy to get rid of threads completely. I tend to think in terms of "boards" rather than "threads" anyhow, so it's hard for me not to follow my own biases. But darn, it would be so much simpler if I didn't have to support threads at all. Which might happen anyhow, but I'm trying to keep threads in at this point.

My vision is something like the Yahoo Groups, but instead of having to sign up for a dozen different groups to get all the information you want, you can access them all at once. Mark the boards you most want to follow, and AQ gives extra shortcuts to make sure you see all the new posts from those boards.

Simple, clean, and no use of threads necessary. =)

Most of the complaints I hear about the message boards here sound mostly like it's because people haven't used them enough to figure out exactly how to use them. They're different from other message boards--so far as I know, there's not a single website on the entire planet that does message boards quite like Atlas Quest does--and people experienced with other message boards immediately dislike the differences because they have to learn how to work again. (Likewise, I'd bet anyone who first uses the AQ message boards then try to use something like the forums on geocaching likely find themselves frustrated at trying to figure out how to use those boards too!) It's not so much consistency I'm striving for (though that always is nice when I can arrange it) as it is making the site easy for newcomers to figure out.

On a totally unrelated note--I completely forgot to mention this--but when I ordered the SSL certificate, they had a special where I could buy new domains for $1.99 or something. I couldn't resist. I bought ryansatotalgoober.com

Don't know what the heck I'll do with it, but it's all mine! =)

-- Ryan

Lord almighty, PLEASE no graphic faces, flashing text, or brilliant colors!

I know I'm an old fogey, but ever since AOL went public, we've been inundated with nonsense. Emoticons were invented by a bunch of IRCers and are SO much more expressive when you know how to use them!

I like text. Text is GOOD. Text is your friend, honest it is.

Ish

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My vision is something like the Yahoo Groups,

yuck I dislike the yahoo boards, I just can not get used to them. I find it very hard to follow a converstation there. (or thread if you preffer) and no I don't use the thread button that much here. But they seam easyier to follow (maybe its the color????) :)

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(Likewise, I'd bet anyone who first uses the AQ message boards then try to use something like the forums on geocaching likely find themselves frustrated at trying to figure out how to use those boards too!)

Yes, Yes I got used to AQ first and it is the only one I get but I don't use anything esle so my oppion is not worth much here.

I like the name of your new domain name "ryansatotalgoober.com" (not that I agree or any thing he he) keep us informed.

Mystic Dreamer

Yahoo Groups ..ICK !!! ick NO

Hard to Navigate, muchly..Hard to follow thread/a post! ICK! Or ANYTHING....BLECH!

My reason for Avoiding THEM Ick Huck TOO-ey
At ALL costs, even my local bard/board. ha!
did I mention the Bard?

Why I visit AQ : "community" "user friendly" People write "stuff" for me to READ and feel connected to?"

Yahoo........YaaNOOOOOOOOO

Bring ON usage of boards more visited more than clues!

10 million =and counting! Hopefully!

but..that's just me.

preboxed aka pre FUR with NO idea why I can't PREview my own post w/o Mystic Dreamer's post coming up ....Well, can we say I-R-O-N-I-C?

...'Nuff Said
preboxed
Denver

Don't get too worked up about my reference to Yahoo Groups. Remember--I've always hated those. I certainly don't plan to recreate them. =)

But it also doesn't mean every single feature of those boards is bad, just like it doesn't mean every feature of the geocaching forums are bad even though I don't like them.

My point was--I'm more inclined to go towards a boards-based system rather than a threaded-based one.

-- Ryan

Pyratemates prefer using the STRUCTURE feature to follow the conversation/information on a particular board. Gives us the choice to find the beginning of the list and then pick and choose the replies by author if we desire.

Just our opinion.

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or that creepy happy face that's laughing and looks like it's about to regurgitate something.

but i like it when my computer vomits on me :)

kitten without mittens *who couldnt resist but loves seeing texty faces alot- theyre so much cuter*

Ryan I feel you have killed my cell phone atlas quest fun. :'-( I know I have mentioned to you before on how I love to surf atlas quest on my phone Checking my mail and reading clues and reading the message boards from anywhere whenever I had a spare second. It was amazing and i loved it. I don't know how I am going to go back and live without it now. Yesterday when trying to go to Aq via my phone it gave me an error message saying "Secure connection Failed" with either a retry button or a done button. I have tried both and neither button took me on to get my portable AQ fix. Up until I read this post I just thought it was the net being down on my phone as I didn't try to go anywhere else but AQ. Alas now I see it was a change in the code and I am assuming that means I am S.O.O.L. from this point on. Granted I don't understand all the technical mumbo jumbo of how these things work, so maybe there is an easy solution. But as you have told me in the past about how you make no guarentees about what works over a cell phone or pda then I assume that will not be the case. I guess I will only be able to be on AQ from the "comfort" of my $15 computer chair in my living room from now on. I do understand that you wouldn't do this if it wasn't in the best interest of atlas quest as a whole so I do sadly understand. One thing to keep in mind though, Ryan, is that as technology keeps advancing more and more people are going to be logging on to AQ from unconventional locations in unconventional ways. Phones are doing crazier things with every passing month. Sooner or later you may have to start looking at this type of thing much I am sure to your dismay. Once again thank you for everything you do! you are the best Ryan!

Chadams

Hmm..... I hadn't considered the problem of people using cell phones to surf Atlas Quest. I'll have to think about how to handle that situation. It's hard for me to test, though, because there are SOOO many different cell phones out there it's literally impossible for me to test them all with Atlas Quest. And the fact that I don't even have a cell phone makes it even more difficult!

Truthfully, I just haven't designed AQ to work with things like cell phones since I figure most people are using regular computers to access the site. A small subset of AQ is available for PDAs, and some people have been able to use their cell phones with that. (Have you tried that option, btw? You can't get the message boards, but you can still look up clues through it.)

-- Ryan

Thanks Ryan. I had no idea how hard this all was. Matter of fact, this is my first post on this board. I just started checking it a few days ago. I appreciate all you do as I love this site.....

Cindy
Oregon

if it makes any difference, I can still log in to AQ from DH's blackberry.

ain't technology great? course, still can't get a signal up in the mountains...


MB

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I'm not entirely sure of all the ramifications that a secure login might cause

I have to admit, I am not at all computer literate. That being said, I was just curious - with all this talk of new security and such, why is it that every time I log in now, it says I am being redirected to a site that is not secure and do I want to continue? I've never had that before. Could it be that I'm using AOL?
Beachcomber

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preboxed aka pre FUR with NO idea why I can't PREview my own post w/o Mystic Dreamer's post coming up ....Well, can we say I-R-O-N-I-C?

Only because I have been whining about my weather outside and not able to box when really I have nothing to complain about when we look at your weather. aka SNOW!!!!

I do agree with you on the "Yahoo........YaaNOOOOOOOOO" "Ick Huck TOO-ey" so well put.

Mystic Dreamer
40 degrees and rain today (snow has been rained away . . .. . for a day or two at least.)

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That being said, I was just curious - with all this talk of new security and such, why is it that every time I log in now, it says I am being redirected to a site that is not secure and do I want to continue? I've never had that before

That is what mine said on my phone up until It became "secure" . now I can;t use it at all on my phone.

chadams

So in doing some thinking about my cell phone issue I realized I could still search for clues on my phone I just couldn't go to "my page" Which is what I do most to check my mail and read posts. If I were to have my mail forwarded to my "real" email address Which I have no problem checking on my phone, would it still tell me that I have a new letter on every AQ page like it does now when I do not have my mail forwarded? I would really not like it if I didn't have that and probably would choosse not to have my mail forwarded at all then and just suffer with no mobile AQ mail. SO those who do have it forwarded, could you please let me know the answer before I make the switch. Thanks very much in advance!
chadams

YOU ROCK!!!! thanx for all the work you do. without AQ we would be all lost in the forest.

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with all this talk of new security and such, why is it that every time I log in now, it says I am being redirected to a site that is not secure and do I want to continue?

The login page itself is secure, but the rest of AQ still shows up on an unsecured connection since I figured there's no reason that clues or such need to be secured. There is extra processing power used by the server to secure a page, so unless there's a good reason to secure it, it won't be secured.

When you type in your trail name and password, that page is secure, but then AFTER you've logged in, it'll redirect you to a non-secured page. Probably not a good idea to include stuff like credit card numbers, social security numbers, and other personal details in AQ mail or on the message boards, but why would you be doing that anyhow? =)

Most browsers have an option when you see a message about redirecting to a non-secure page (remember, it's the PAGE that's unsecure--not necessarily the whole site) that allows you to hide that warning message. "Do you want to be warned every time you are redirected to a non-secure page?" type of thing. Then you won't see the warning anymore. It gets annoying after awhile, so I turned it off on my browser. I just look in the bottom-right corner of the browser to see if a certain page is secure or not.

-- Ryan