To the mom, 11-year-old and 12-year-old who sign in with the "Soccer•Swim•Ski" stamp:

I invite you to not find any more of my boxes. When I pulled my letterboxes for maintenance and found your nasty notes, I was really disheartened. Of course I don't appreicate being told my Fountain of Youth letterbox "sucks." It took two entire weekends to walk those clues and then write them in rhyme for the enjoyment of others, including you. But that didn't hurt as much as seeing a whole page of my logbook written by a child lecturing me on all the different ways I suck. I didn't laugh at the entry in the Dance Flurry letterbox telling me you stole my stamp and were holding it for ransom. I'm glad you returned it. Shame on all of you. Perhaps it is time to teach your children a golden rule: "If you can't say anything nice..."

Mookie

I can't believe how rude and inconsiderate some people can be. I hope that never happens to me because I would definitely cry. I'll bet those people wouldn't know a good box if it jumped out and bit them. -the happy gemini

After finding out that my first and only plant so far, was totally destroyed this past weekend, my sympathy is certainly extended to you. However, I can completely understand your anger (if you have any) as well. Sometimes, I'd just like to ) *&&^%^#$^@. *oops* did I say that?

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*&&^%^#$^@. *oops* did I say that?

(innocently) No, you didn't say anything, just typed a bunch of random characters...gosh, what did you MEAN to say? ;-)

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To the mom, 11-year-old and 12-year-old who sign in with the "Soccer•Swim•Ski" stamp:

I invite you to not find any more of my boxes. When I pulled my letterboxes for maintenance and found your nasty notes, I was really disheartened. Of course I don't appreicate being told my Fountain of Youth letterbox "sucks." It took two entire weekends to walk those clues and then write them in rhyme for the enjoyment of others, including you. But that didn't hurt as much as seeing a whole page of my logbook written by a child lecturing me on all the different ways I suck. I didn't laugh at the entry in the Dance Flurry letterbox telling me you stole my stamp and were holding it for ransom. I'm glad you returned it. Shame on all of you. Perhaps it is time to teach your children a golden rule: "If you can't say anything nice..."

Seriously, what the FLIP, Chip??? Who TEACHES their kids to be rude like this (or even sits by and watches while they DO it without making hand connect to naughty butt?)? Forgive me if this story's just been blown out of proportion, but if even a modicum of this is true, someone needs to grow up, stop being a buddy with their kids and start being a parent. The rest of the world is counting on you to teach your progeny to be a useful part of society, not become part of the LARGE group that sits around exercising their constitutional right to piss and moan (excuse my French!).

The (ready to go out and school some kids and parents right NOW) Sprite & the (already getting out his "learnin' switch") Highlander

All I can say is that when I take my 7 yr old with me, I am teaching him about nature and respect for it. Then you add in letterboxing and you are showing respect for someone else's property.

Destruction of anyone's belongings is just nasty. My parents would still "beat the daylights" out of this 34 yr old if I did these sort of things.

Maybe out culture needs to bring back the belt and start spanking again. Then we might teach a little respect.

What will be needed is a few more of you "30 somethings" to figure out that paddling and telling a kid "NO' does not warp them (you all turned out ok). Children learn by having things modeled by the adults around them........and we all learn by making mistakes, falling down, getting hurt (both emotionally and physically). Parents need to quit babying their kids, know that kids will lie to save their little butts and they will be brats........but if ya let them get away with that sort of behavior, well, that just teaches a whole nuther lesson!!

Off the soapbox now!!!!
Z

I just wanted to let you know as a mom to a 12 yo and 9 yo....I would never let them deface someone else's property in that manner. We always find something nice to say, and most of the times do not have the time or space to write all the nice things about the boxes that we say to each other as we stamp in. I am appalled that someone let their children do such a thing, maybe they were alone? I hope your boxes will still be there for my children and I to find soon....maybe next weekend :0) Please remember for every nasty little brat out there, there are at least 10 well ;) behaved little brats as well....

Catherine Mom to well behaved little brats, most of the time :0)

How horrible! I am so sorry that this happened to you.

There is no excuse for that kind of behavior, so I'm not excusing it, but let's hope that those kids were pulling a fast one on Mom and wrote those things without her knowledge. At 11 and 12, you would think children could be trusted to stamp in and rehid a box carefully, so maybe there wasn't close supervision. Hopefully, your note will put her "on" to them and the appropriate measures can then be taken. (You can interpret "appropriate measures as you wish!)
S

Don't forget there may be some "20-somethings" to contend with.

Our family is new to Letterboxing (12/3/06) and this was my first time visiting this particular message board. We've been out on three different finds (only 9 traditionals and 2 hhers so far), but today was a really exciting day for us because we've spent last night and today creating and then planting our first two boxes... so, to come in and upload the clues and then read your post, it sort of bummed me out.

I guess it's everywhere, huh? Our son is 11 (soon 12) and let me tell you if he EVER did something like that! But, you know what? We'd NEVER allow such out-right-mean-spirited-behavior.

Here's my hit... the folks that allowed their kids to do something so malicious allowed it because they were jealous of your BOX because it was SO AWESOME! No excuse, but envy has been known to create "green monsters!"

Mookie, you hang in there and don't let this experience stop you from creating more impressive boxes.

that is a terribly disheartening experience. Also sounds kind of
weird that someone would write their age and then lecture you!?!?

strange. Then to pull a stamp hold it for ransom and return it?!!
Well, do not give up.
Hope that person can't rest until they realize how cruel and
insensitive they have been, never mind childish.

A parent that goes and spends time with their child doing research to find an activity to share with their child, then goes and drives to a location, hikes to a box and finds it with their child is not what is described here. This sounds more like obnoxious prank playing teens who have the knowledge of what boxing is, and the ability to do some offensive things. Or worse, an adult that is just a vandal. As for the calls for spanking children at the age of 12 and 13- it is too late, and the damage is done. As for spanking in general, that is for each parent to decide, not for outsiders to look in and say what should or shouldn't be done. As the parent of two boys with autism, we get plenty stares from others for their behavior, but for our part whenever we have tried spanking, it led to an increase in aggression between the two of them, so we don't do it. They learned that if it was ok for us, then they could do it to.

P Banks of the 4 little piggies

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As for spanking in general, that is for each parent to decide, not for outsiders to look in and say what should or shouldn't be done. As the parent of two boys with autism, we get plenty stares from others for their behavior, but for our part whenever we have tried spanking, it led to an increase in aggression between the two of them, so we don't do it. They learned that if it was ok for us, then they could do it to.

P Banks, to have two boys with autism, my heart goes out to you. That has to be tough. To how you interact with your children is in its very nature different than those of us with out the autism child.

It is not about spanking so to speak it is about DISCIPLINE parents need to discipline there children. Spanking is not hitting it is discipline, there may be other ways out there to discipline and that needs to be a parents choice. And what works with one child or in one home does not work in anothers. As for the boys or persons involved in the act the parent has clearly not disciplined them or taught them how to act with respect.

Mystic Dreamer

I almost didn't read this post and I haven't read all the replies. I just want to say to these people if they read these posts....

Letterboxing doesn't need or tolerate this behavior. Please find yourself another hobby.

Shiloh

i can't say that this has ever happened to me, but i did have a box that i had to pull, due to vandals. first the box was not where it was supposed to be, and second, they mentioned about how stoned they were in the logbook.

muggles have left my boxes alone for the most part. i have 4 boxes that i love dearly. 3 of them, have been damaged or gone missing. i will not let muggles or anyone else ruin it for me and others the LB was intended.

now, you will never ever hear me call myself perfect, and i don't believe that none of you would do the same. i have been LBing for over a year and a half now, and when i go out into the woods looking for a letterbox, i now carry a camera every single time. the trip is more for nature than the box itself. now if for some reason i feel like finding the box more and not caring for the beauty around me, i may care about the clues or the stamp. if for some reason i find the stamp and it is not to my liking or i think the clues could have been better, i will keep it to myself. who am i to tell someone that the clues suck! are they new? is this thier first plant?
as i always say: "who am i to tell some girl she is ugly. it is not my decision to tell her this, because i am sure that there is someone out there that finds her attractive! which in my mind doesn't make her ugly!"
it goes the same for any LB. just because it is to easy or to hard or it is a store bought stamp. i dont care about that anymore. i have LBs out there that are easy. i have some that are hard. i have some that are for everyone. some might be missing right now, but i will carve again and replant. nothing can stop me!

now for spanking. i turned out just fine! <twitch>

let me ask this 1 question! is it wrong to rip out the disrespectful page?
david (team new hampshire)
http://teamnewhampshire.blogspot.com

Spanking my autistic child, as a young child, had absolutly NO effect. None. We wondered some days if he felt pain. Not one twitch of a reaction. Of course, he wasn't very big on the whole cause-and-effect deal either. Potty training took four years.

Physical punishment of my autistic child as a teen had a direct effect. Usually something broken. Like a wall.

Spanking my two other boys would do what it was meant to do. Ram home the point about not touching the stove before a burn could occur. Make it clear that if you hurt your sibling, there'd be some hurting for you. CLEARLY underscore the fact that running out into the street was a BAD idea. You get the picture. Grumbling, resentment, but usually obedience ever after.

Spanking my daughter...jeez. You'd think I'd flayed skin just by making contact with the outer layer of garments. Tears, sobbing, wailing, cries for her father. THEN several hours of glaring and moping. Heaven forbid if her _father_ had a reason to spank! However, I can't think of anything that she's ever done that lead to a spanking that was repeated. One quasi-solid swat on the well padded butt seems a good alternative to pulling shards of broken glass out of bare feet (I SAID, stay out of the kitchen right now!), to me, anyhow.

Think of it on the same level as innoculations :)

I am not so sure about this. Some well adjusted kids, well disciplined kids fall to the wiles of peer presure. For instance, a kid spent years letterboxing with his parents and loved it, then, as a teen he introduced it to some buddies just for kicks. Maybe his parents did a fine job. How is it the parents fault because of a lack of discipline if the kid crumbles under peer presure to a group of friends who have no respect for the sport and hobbies of others and participates in destroying the boxes. While I do believe the Bible when it says He who does not whip his son does not love his child, I also believe it when it says The father's teeth are not set on edge because the son ate sour grapes. Sooner or later the soul that sins will die. We each must take on our own responsibilities. For some of us it is to discipline. For others it is to learn to respect authority. I have done both through the years, as I am sure you have, but which one is the tougher of the two? I agree with everything you said except for the last line, in which case I must say that things are not always as they seem, however probable.

It is rather interesting how folks jump to conclusions. The vandalized letterbox is certainly something that we all dislike, but there is no real evidence of the ages of those that vandalized the letterbox. There is no real evidence that "Mom" was along when the deed was was done. The only indication of ages or who did the dirty deed is from what the perps themselves wrote in the logbook, at least that is what is indicated in Mookies post.
Would you believe what is written from some dufus writing in a letterbox logbook?(this is not in reference to Mookie or Mookies post)

If "Mom" and her future Ted Bs were reading this thread, I wonder if she/they would be amused or humiliated. My guess is the former.

Don

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Potty training took four years.

well, heck... even my just turned 4 year old son took until recently to "get it" and even now he still has BM-delays on getting to the potty in time. I'd say WELL DONE MOM & DAD! four years is not an excessive amount of time for an autistic child or non-autistic child!

Although spanking is a last resort for us, it doesnt hold as much sway as withholding his Leapster or being sent to bed early does. We do still have our kitchen gated for simplicity's sake (that and i dont feel like swatting butt or picking glass out of feet either)... when he is allowed in the kitchen only when I'm with him, and he has a "job" like emptying the dishwasher or putting the tops on his peanut butter crackers.

Also what works for us is taking things away when he mistreats them.. books or toys. There have been times when there was nothing in his bedroom except a bed. He had to earn back his things by showing us he knows how to treat them (books go on the bookshelf, we dont throw or tear books, toys go in the toy space, no standing or mis-using toys, etc).

Another thing we have done is kinda interesting. I've never heard about it anywhere but it kinda evolved from James' interest in having books and notebooks. Way back when he was about 2 years old, I had several of the small sized composition books laying around and he wanted them...well, one of them became a place where we'd write things together. the Alphabet, colors, numbers, names of family members, our address and phone number, etc. He liked for me to write his full name so I'd write that too.

I also wrote things like Mommy loves James. Daddy loves James. James is a good boy. James is very smart. etc..... Well, I eventually started writing rules in there too and everytime he'd pull it out he'd read through the book and we'd read all the fun things he and I wrote. Some things that we learned in some of his Videos & DVDs were also written in his "book". Selfish is BAD.. (and wrong). etc. and also the "rules" Be Nice No yelling inside. etc. and specific rules like: James should not stand or lean on the kitchen gate. James should listen to mommy & daddy. (muhahahaha, get the brainwashing in early, i say!!!!)

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Maybe his parents did a fine job. How is it the parents fault because of a lack of discipline if the kid crumbles under peer presure to a group of friends. . . . . . . . . . .I agree with everything you said except for the last line, in which case I must say that things are not always as they seem, however probable.

mstrwndl, you are right things are not always as they seem, one does not always know the path of others. Thank you for reminding me of this. It is hard to see an injustice with out jumping to conclusions. Forgive me.

Mystic Dreamer

What is probably sad about the whole thing is, this person probably has NEVER put out a box and doesn't understand the time that is put into it, to only have someone criticize and/or destroy it. I am new at letterboxing and have put out a few boxes, so I hope they don't come look for mine, because I'm sure if yours sucked, there is no telling what they would write in mine. (smile) Obviously they do not realize the time put into carving stamps or the money spent on buying store bought stamps. Betcha they wouldn't have wanted you to steal their soccer, swim or ski stamps, eh? Anyway, I would just tear their pages out of my book, put them all back in the same places, and overlook the children because obviously they don't have a good upbringing or this wouldn't have happened. Keep on planting, because I'm sure other people enjoy your boxes very much.

heehee, my daughter exactly the same way! why? don't know, never thought I openly encouraged the dramatic nature of a girl, never was that way when I was little (really, not lying here)....nice to know I'm not the only one who has to deal with the screams like I am BEATING her to death when she gets a swat....

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)....nice to know I'm not the only one who has to deal with the screams like I am BEATING her to death when she gets a swat.

Maybe both girls have a future in acting. :)

Shiloh

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Spanking my autistic child, as a young child, had absolutly NO effect. None. We wondered some days if he felt pain. Not one twitch of a reaction. Of course, he wasn't very big on the whole cause-and-effect deal either.

My son is not autistic, but he does have ADHD and sensory deprivation. It took several years to realize this.
When he was younger it felt like I was always yelling at him and spanking him. Once we figured out that he literally needed extreme stimulation (sound, feeling, motion...etc) in order to make things click; it all made sense. For him (and I'm not saying this for all kids) medication did wonders. He was able to focus on tone of voice and facial expressions to recognize when he was getting to close to "the line". A swift "swat" on the behind did the job when he did cross the line.

My daughter is just like the one's mentioned before. She would cry when I raised my voice and heaven forbid she needed to get a little swat on the rear!

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Maybe his parents did a fine job. How is it the parents fault because of a lack of discipline if the kid crumbles under peer presure...

Sorry to butt into this discussion, but if a kid succumbs to peer pressure of any sort, it is the parents' fault. Period. They did not do a fine job.

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let me ask this 1 question! is it wrong to rip out the disrespectful page?

I ripped three pages out of a geocache log book the other day -- including the front cover. And it wasn't my geocache, it was somebody else's. And they wrote me to thank me for it. I don't think anybody -- either the owner or other finders -- is interested in seeing such stuff. And those that did the deed don't deserve the recognition. It's kinda like painting over graffiti.

-- Kirbert

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Sorry to butt into this discussion, but if a kid succumbs to peer pressure of any sort, it is the parents' fault. Period. They did not do a fine job.

Ouch Kirbert,

We might not have reached the ideal of parent hood, but you might want to site your source or qualify your opinion. Children do not come with instructions books. I see a few misguided parents from time to time, but most of us do the best we can with what we have. If kids get off track for a while due to peer presure, it doesn't do much good to rag on us or for that matter for those of us with kids in trouble to rag on ourselves. It is easy to play the blame game and even the self pity game, but what problem does that solve. In my opinion, parenting is the best and hardest job in the world and we all can use the support of the larger community.

Eaglewatcher who was a perfect parent until her children developed independent thinking skills (lol)

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We might not have reached the ideal of parent hood, but you might want to site your source or qualify your opinion.

The source is me. For evidence, I point to the rampant drug abuse, tobacco use, alchoholism, and crime in our society today, as well as our consistency in electing (and reelecting) absolute morons to public office, continued faith in outmoded superstitious nonsense, and the popularity of gambling and lotteries. Every parent thinks he's doing a great job, but the results show that many -- possibly most -- are not doing a very good job at all.

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Children do not come with instructions books.

That's part of the problem. Despite overwhelming evidence that it doesn't work, we continue to believe that every parent automagically knows exactly what to do as soon as a baby pops out of the chute. Perhaps it's time -- perhaps it's overdue -- that we, as a society, start providing something more serious in the way of instruction on proper parenting in our public schools.

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In my opinion, parenting is the best and hardest job in the world and we all can use the support of the larger community.

Agreed wholeheartedly -- but "the support of the larger community" shouldn't involve encouragement for doing a lousy job.

-- Kirbert

Before I became a parent I had a ton of parenting theories ....now that I have kids I have 4 kids and NO theories ....they have busted me on all of them!!!

I read somewhere an interesting thing I had never thought of before the pther day....
Children don't come to us as clay to be molded be as books to be read.

I sometimes think my boys books are in another language but it has been like a fabulous rollercoaster getting to knwo them.....you think you might die at any minute but your thrilled a the thought of continuing the journey. I am a believer in follow thru , whatever your choice swats, time out, boot camp, gramma guilt, disapointment, curfew resitriction, phone groundation, ....I think it is ALL based on the age old three words JUST DO IT!!! Kids know when you are full of it....we knew....am i really grounded for 2 weeks or will they get sick of me after 2 days and let me off early ?? See ya !! I knew my parents buttons and pushed them often to get my punishments lightened....like a pupet show!! ; )

Anyway to all the kids out there , if you never made a choice your parents DIDN'T approve of , I applaud you and your parents , where did you grow up?? But if you DID like the rest of us , do you blame your parents? Did they do something wrong ? Nah people have their very own free choice and sometimes we all do stupid stuff!!! Just cause!!!

For parents out there ....keep turning the pages the read is awesome some of the chapters are long and will have you in tears and make you want to pull you hair out just like any great novel ....but in the end the time and effort spent patiently translating the language of our kids ....while doing our job of setting clear "value based limits" with follow thru....we will find a great classic that can hopefull start to read their own little books someday!!!

A kid who pushed great parents , now a parent pushing great kids,
teekasue