(Note: any words deemed "obscene" in this post will be replaced by a more genteel word, surrounded by asterisks... err... I mean *behind*sterisks).

I am appaled by the deluge of pornographic boxes infiltrating the very core of our otherwise pristine hobby. There are literally thousands of stamps out there polluting the woods with their cr*bottom* nudity. Bunnies, squirrels, mice, ducks... all naked! All in direct violation of the NPS *Maleness* Code, no doubt. *Derriere*, what are we to do abou*breast*? Oh, sure, an "Adult Icon" is a step in the right direction, perhaps, *derriere* I think we need to take it a bit further.

Henceforth, all Letterboxers should be issued special "Clothing Stamps". Whenever you find yourself confronted with unabashed nakedness in a stamp, you can "stamp over" the image with the Clothing Stamp, thus keeping your Logbook Family Fri*tush*ly. If you have children with you (immaculately conceived, no doubt), you should be proactive, and stamp the "Clothing Stamps" directly on their eye*testes*, just in case.

If you disagree with me, feel free to put your opinion in *7th-Planet-From-The-Sun*.

-w*gluteus-maximus*amatta_u

My only regret is that I'm not nearly so witty as to verbalize that first!

Thanks, w*gluteus-maximus*amatta_u

nice one! Too funny

Docs M -

I really can't bear to watch you be buried in misinformation. I have no idea how these rumors get started, but there is nothing pornographic or blatantly violent in my "adult" images. Here is a sample of the kind of stamps we are talking about. If the following stamp image shows any kind of pornography or violence, than I will eat my PZ Cut.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lockwench/178333849/

The men I am talking about do NOT have their minds in the gutter and frankly I am deeply offended that you would make such a statement about people you don't even know. Please refrain from this kind of behavior.

I also agree with your mother. "If in doubt, don't do it." If you are in any doubt about doing one of my boxes, please don't do them. You asked to be warned and I cited half a dozen ways I give full warning to boxers, but perhaps you didn't bother to read the entire post. Thank you for letting us know where you stand though.

LW PhD
"Nice Counts"

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As for the icon, I wholeheartedly agree that if the box's content will offend then there should be a clear warning, so go ahead and create one, but instead of calling it "adult" call it "questionable" or "sensitive" or "just plain trash". I am an adult and am highly offended by pornography and blatant violence.

My father is an artist and I grew up seeing nude artwork. I simply think there is a difference between art and pornography. I'd prefer to have the clues for boxes that are pornographic left off of this site. If they are going to be there, warn me, so I don't find them on purpose.

All I have to say is that you have to remember that YOU may be offended by certain 'adult' images, but not everyone is. They're not for everyone, it's true.
That just means that you should read the clues before you go hunt for a box- and the planter of the box should make sure to note it's an 'adult-content' box somewhere in those clues for you to read before you hunt for it.

I see no need for an 'icon' to do this- it should be noted in the clues, that's it.

CQ

Sorry about that..I forgot I had the "private" setting on that image I cited. Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lockwench/178333849/?edited=1

LW PhD
"Nice Counts"

Wow...
who knew this little post I posted...when??
yesterday?? or was it the day before?? would still be going?
it took nearly 80 replies before it got designated a dead lemur. That's pretty good runnings.
LOL
someone said something about stirring a pot... what was that?? *more laughs*


many now say you can't really say what constitutes the term "adult"...
now come on...I think we all know what we really meant.
anything that is added to that as adult content is in the eye of the beholder and is subjective.

dixie

I'm not trying to flame you, but you should realize that there are differences in people's perceptions of what is adult, based very much on where they grew up and how they were raised.

For example, when traveling in Europe the year I turned eighteen, I was surprised to find a magazine ad showing a woman swimming topless. This magazine (Cosmopolitan) was kindly bought for me by a very nice couple who helped to sponsor the band tour I was on when I was in a hospital in Germany with an infected foot. At the time, coming from a very strict upbringing, I was a little shocked, but not extremely offended, partly because I figured, "Well, different standards in different places." I found the difference interesting, just as I found it interesting that the bubblegum they brought me--a brand that could be also found in the U.S.--was not the bright pink to which I was accustomed, but was, instead, the natural gray color of other non-child-targeted gum.

I've encountered these differences more recently while working for a major publishing company when I lived in Boston. We had just been bought by a European company, and we were going through some of their middle and high school textbooks to see if we could save money by reusing art already owned by our new owners. We were surprised when we opened a French middle school math book which showed a little boy peeing on the street with his "apparatus" fully shown. We all had a laugh at the fact that we could never use that image here, of course, but we also realized that again, there were different standards in different parts of the world. Personally, I am rather glad that peeing on the street is not a practice that is so common in the U.S.--especially since, as a woman, I couldn't relieve myself that way! :D

That being said, there are images that would offend me. Most of those, though, I suspect that I would never find in a letterbox. I doubt that any boxer would put child pornography in a box (especially since it is illegal), or images glorifying murder or hate crimes or slavery. I would, however, be perfectly fine with some of the boxes I've seen listed--which I'm dying to find actually--about the underground railroad. The whole underground railroad idea has always fascinated me (I remember doing a school paper on it), both because of the clandestine aspects of secreting people away, and for the wonderful idea that some people helped others to gain their freedom from the oppression of slavery. I can imagine, though, that some of these boxes might contain information not appropriate for small children. And I'm fine with that.

I don't think that censoring those boxes is the way to go, any more than I would want to censor "The Diary of Anne Frank," which was actually banned in a school in Texas because, and this is a quote, someone found it to be "such a downer." Yes, the killing, torture, rape, and other injustices perpetrated on the Jewish people and several other groups in Germany, Poland, and other countries was very much "a downer," just as the fact that these same injustices were perpetrated on the slaves in America is a depressing and shameful thing. But I hardly think that isolating older children from the fact that horrible things have been and are at this moment being done in the world is going to make them better people. In fact, I suspect that the opposite is true--that if we don't make sure our children know that these horrible things happen in the world, they will be unprepared to make sure it doesn't happen again, by fighting injustice wherever they find it--in their own school, where nasty remarks or even physical violence can occur because of hatred, and in their adult lives when they meet it at a job or in their community.

I'll get off my soapbox now, but I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Pied Piper

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So to add it all up, it's YOUR responsibility to get the WOM clues, YOUR responsibility whether or not to bring your kids with you, your responsibility to see who gets to open the box, YOUR responsibility to meet me face to face to get the graphic ones, and YOUR responsponsibility to stamp the images on cards and keep them out of the reach of children if you can't keep them out of your logbook. So if your kids ever see these images, sounds like it is YOUR fault..not mine. I've taken every precaution I can think of. No more frikking icons, already.

I agree LW

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That was actually my original thought when I posted this gem...

what I said, that changed it to adult content icons was this...

I don't think LW or anyone is challenging you or blaming you etc.
I actually started this thread because when i also made a reply to the message about a kid icon...I saw that the potential for a bunch of adult only talk going on...on a Kid related topic or theme. and that is probably what woulda happened to... if I hadn't started this thread.

but anyway...I doubt LW has missed your point. You and I both have clearly stated that we don't think we REALLY need new icons but other folks are chiming in too. They have opinions on the matter and they also bring up new points, fears and concerns. I think LW may have just been addressing a whole bunch of people's concerns and opinions collectively. Those who are following the thread knows that you don't want a new icon Jenni P *pat on back* :)

dixie

*picking self up off floor after fainting from lack of oxygen and laughter induced coma*

dang it's good when you're here w*gluteus-maximus*amatta_u
:)


dixie
still feeling a bit light headed and wiping the tears away

OK...so it is not OK to have a violent letterbox but our kids watch Lord of the Rings and play video games....and the nudity deal cracks me up ....I would jsut laugh and feel bad about the size issue ...unless it was a large box...NO PUN INTENDED! hehehehe So I guess if you feel the need to make a tribute box to someone or something...cute or not do it but have the class to disclose the nature so those people who don't want to go there can NOT and those who want a laugh or an artistic moment CAN .

Whatever floats your boat! That is why I love this hobby so much...you learn alot about the planter / finder by the sites and the boxes they plant and the signature stamps they call their own. It is great and if it blows your hair back and gets me another fun puzzle to solve and walk to take bring it on....

who'da thunk a month ago ,
teekasue

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many now say you can't really say what constitutes the term "adult"...
now come on...I think we all know what we really meant.
anything that is added to that as adult content is in the eye of the beholder and is subjective.

dixie

I hope what I've said doesn't come across that way. I was just trying to point out that there can be many reasons that what one person finds offensive might not be to someone else; and that just because a box might not be appropriate for a young child, we shouldn't, as a group, censor it. As others have said, each of us is responsible for our own young ones, and as long as fair warning is given--as Lock Wench clearly has gone to great pains to do--we are responsible if we expose our children to something we feel they shouldn't see.

Sorry if I wasn't being clear. Still in a turkey coma...

Pied Piper

Good carving! :-)

You know what I was just thinking? Letterboxing is kinda like the movies. Movies were originally created for adults, just as letterboxing was. For that matter, fairy tales were actually originally created for adults, too, as anyone who reads them in the original versions knows. (I collect fairy tales and nursery rhymes, and both have historically contained some very disturbing stuff in the past.) It's great that there are now movies for kids. I personally grew up with a huge crush on Walt Disney movies, watching all I could get access to as many times as possible--this in the days before video taped versions.

Anyway, the point is that when we go to the movies, we pick and choose which ones to take our children to watch. Yes, there is a rating system (I AM NOT NOT NOT SUGGESTING MORE ICONS!). For a letterbox, the rating system can be taken to be the very thorough description in the clues.

Heck, even WITH the rating systems, you have to see what the movie is about before taking your kids. I mean, Bambi is rated G, and personally, I think it should be PG at least because it is a big shock to young children to see the death of Bambi's mother. I would NEVER take a young child to that, preferring to wait until a kid is old enough to understand a little about death. But I know what the movie is about because I read the description and so I would take the responsibility.

Anyway, I know the horse (and lemurs and kittens) are well and truly dead, but figured I'd share this insight anyway.

Pied Piper