(AKA the Kitty Sh*t List) WARNING! Semi-graphic (but family-friendly language) ahead.

I have a cat problem I need help with. Now that the steam has stopped pouring out of my ears and my head stopped spinning around from anger, I can laugh about this, but dang!

This past September we got two little barn kittens. They've really been pretty good. They made it clear early on that their litter box needs to be cleaned daily (our previous cats let me get away with 3-4 days between cleanings). The one issue we had was that , if given the opportunity, one of them consistently would pee on the boys' sleeping bags in our room. (The sleeping bags are our family compromise to sharing our bed with little boys in the middle of the night. They get to be near us, we all sleep well, and we rarely hear them come into our room. Those of you who are parents will know what I mean, and if they're still doing it when they're 16, well, then at least I'll know where they are at night!) Anyway, one of the boys still wears a pull-up at night, and while it doesn't leak I'm sure the scent gets into the sleeping bag, so I wash it regularly.

This habit of the cat resulted in them being banned from the upstairs. The baby gate was re-installed and made cat-proof. Or so I thought. Yesterday I went upstairs and found Dash casually lying in the hallway, looking innocent as if he'd always been allowed. "Hmmmn. Magic Kitty!" I thought, and unceremoniously dumped him back on the other side of the gate. Then I went into our bedroom and was almost overcome by the stench of fresh cat poop! I looked in all the usual places (the sleeping bags, under the bed, in the corners) and could not find it. Finally I turned around, and There It Was. Right in the middle of my side of the bed, up near my pillow. And it was no small quantity, either! This wasn't an "Ooops, I got stuck on the wrong side of the gate and had to go somewhere like in the corner" kind of thing. Clearly, this is a statement towards me as alpha Momma kitty and I don't know what to do about it.

I'm the one who usually feeds them, I clean the cat box, I brush them, play with them, love them up. Dash likes to sit on my should when I'm in the kitchen making dinner or cleaning up, so it's not like we don't hang out together.

Any ideas on what to do here? He's not yet neutered (will be in a few weeks), but I don't know if that will help. I did figure out how he got through the gate and have since fixed the loophole, and we have taken to shutting all the bedroom doors upstairs, but I don't like not being able to move freely in our own house.

Grrrrf. I love kitties - always have. And these are the boys' cats, so to get rid of one of them would be especially heartbreaking.

HELP!

Thanks
-AG

Hi AG. I waited a while to respond cause I was hoping to see some other posts with possible solutions since I have had the same issue recently. I had to do just what you said....close every door upstairs to keep the cat out completely. He pooped in my daughter's room two or three times, pooped in my middle room a few times, peed in there too, man that's just gross! So he's banned from all upstairs rooms and has been doing great downstairs. Never went anywhere down there but in his box. Fortunately, he doesn't have a problem with his box not being scooped every day. Good luck to you!

Becky of Trailstompers :)

While I have no wise suggestions (I do have ample tears of laughter!) I just had to share. Our cat starts whining around 5am to be let out. So, rather than put him outside, he gets to enjoy prowling around the garage. One morning when I let him back in, I noticed the pile he had left us .... right in the middle of the top of the car!!! :-)

Good luck, AG!

I have two cats and while I've never had this problem, I can totally sympathize.

My cats do not like their litter box dirty at all but unfortunately I do not have time to clean it every single day. I finally caved in and bought the automatic litter box and it is a Godsend. It was pricy (I think $80) and the refill boxes are not tooooo bad especially since you can reuse them if you stay on top of the problem. I use less litter now as well, so that helps.

The litter box has a sensor in and it waits 10 minutes after the cat leaves it and then it scoops into the box and goes back down. My cats have an issue with peeing in the exact same spot in it for some reason so that corner does get a little messy sometimes. They also like to "wipe" their paws on the outside so that gets a little icky too but I wipe it down with baby wipes when I change the box and that helps keep it clean.

They were a little nervous of it at first but not anymore, in fact I think they kind of like it more.

A website I've used quite a bit for problems like these, where I don't know what is going on ; ) is http://www.petplace.com They have a lot of answers to strange questions as well as helpful hints.

Best of luck to you, I really can't imagine what I'd do in this situation.

BTW, totally impressed that you managed to make a baby gate cat proof, I've never succeeded at that!

moonduck

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BTW, totally impressed that you managed to make a baby gate cat proof, I've never succeeded at that!

It took large pieces of cardboard and lots of packaging tape, as well as trial-and-error. I should mention that it's a mounted, swinging gate, not a tension one. And Dash did take a digger from the balcony at the top of the stairs to the floor below once. He was trying to go *around* the gate through the railing balusters, despite the fact that I already had considered that possibility and had cardboard sticking out into thin air by about 8 inches. My oldest son saw him fall - said he landed on his feet, and he seems to have suffered no ill effects, other than being down to 8 lives at the ripe age of four months... Dash is already at about 7 pounds at 4 months old. He's bigger now than either of my previous cats at maturity, so I'm a little nervous about just how big he's going to get—and how high he'll be able to jump.

I do clean the box every single morning. And on the rare occasions I forget, when it gets too bad for them they will pee on the paper on the floor next to it. I don't want another box in the house b/c I don't want the litter everywhere (it's in the mud room currently). No, I think this is more an attitude than an accident.

-AG

Well, you can at least take comfort in the fact that you're not alone in your feline poopy predicament! We only have one cat but heaven forbid we forget to scoop the poop every single day. He shows his displeasure by flinging a couple nuggets out of the box and onto the floor.

I think there's a lot of reasons they might be giving you the business, so to speak. Is it possible that your kitties are still young and still figuring things out? Is there any sort of rivalry between one or more of the cats? Perhaps he was just so stoked about breaking the Magic Baby Gate Barrier (seriously, how DID you do that?!) that he had to go. I know when there's a commotion in the house, like Thankgiving dinner with the whole family, or furniture being moved around, our cat will show his displeasure by poo-ing and then walking around with sandy litter paws. Not a nice thing.

And the peeing on the sleeping bag habit sounds a lot like 'marking' to me. Have you caught the cat in the act? I'd bet it's the un-neutered one, and that would probably end once he's fixed.

I can clearly recall the day that Mr. Pigeon made the Feline Fecal Roster. He backed his furry butt up too close to the edge of the litter pan and poo-poo-ed over the side.....directly in the heater. Nasty poo, too. "Hey, do you smell something? What the ---?! Oh my GOD! Turn off the heater!!!!!" We bought an enclosed cat pan the next day.

And still we love him.

Good luck with your kitties!
Squeak,
Craftymouse

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I can clearly recall the day that Mr. Pigeon made the Feline Fecal Roster. He backed his furry butt up too close to the edge of the litter pan and poo-poo-ed over the side.....directly in the heater. Nasty poo, too. "Hey, do you smell something? What the ---?! Oh my GOD! Turn off the heater!!!!!" We bought an enclosed cat pan the next day.

Oh, I am so sorry, but I am sitting here convulsing in my cubicle laughing my butt off!!! I've seen my cat do this by mistake but never on a heater! My younger cat however, she makes the most ungodly smells out of her butt, that's why we're so thankful for the auto box.

Someone suggested two boxes, that might be a really good idea for you. Wouldn't hurt to try at least. I understand about the smell and the litter tracking, but you may be surprised how little of that you find, especially if it helps the problem.

moonduck

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Is it possible that your kitties are still young and still figuring things out? Is there any sort of rivalry between one or more of the cats?

Youth - probably. Rivalry - they are littermates and love to play, sleep and bathe together. They are training for the Kitty Olympics in many disciplines: Indoor Furniture Sprint and Marathon, Wrestling, and Synchronized Sleeping. We are expecting medals in all events. Surprisingly, Scaling Mount Tannenbaum is not among their preferred activities!

-AG

The cat is young, so when he gets neutered, that will help alot. I would recommend keeping all bed room doors shut, we do and once you get into the habit, it is no big deal. Also put the sleeping bags in the closet during the day, once you get in the habit it will be routine.

I also want to know about this miracle baby gate-cat gate. Please give details.

One of my long hair cats has a tail that naturally curls under. So when she is not careful and doesn't get it out of the way when she poops.......

"My younger cat however, she makes the most ungodly smells out of her butt, that's why we're so thankful for the auto box."

I can totally laugh about Mr. Pigeon's poopy escapades now. Especially that one, since we don't live in that apartment anymore, ha ha!!!

And I would be all over an auto box for him, but I can't convince the husband. He's the one that scoops the poop, so I figure he would probably know the cat's butt-habits better than I do. Ironically, we were out shopping last night for a new enclosed litterbox. The one we've got now has a broken handle and is just plain worn out. We went to the local animal supply store, and although they didn't have the auto box, they did have an enclosed box with a flap. I thought that was a great idea! Anything to help confine the stank is good, right? Our conversation went something like this:

Me: "Here's a nice one. It looks like the one we've got."
Him: "It's got a cat-flap on it."
Me: "That's ok. It'll keep the smell in."
Him: "He won't like it. He doesn't like change."
Me: "He'll get used to it. He figured out how to open our bedroom door. I'm sure he'll figure out how to work a cat-flap door."
Him: "He doesn't like change."
Me: "But it's the same! Look! Nice and roomy! And it's blue!"
Him: "No! He doesn't like change!"
Me: "But-"
Him: "NO! We're getting the same one we've got. That's it."


And then there was the discussion about what kind of mat to put in front of the box to help curb the sandy paws situation. But that's another story....

Squeak,
Craftymouse

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I also want to know about this miracle baby gate-cat gate. Please give details.

All right, I'll take photos tonight! It ain't pretty, but it does seem to do the trick.

To start with, this is the model we're dealing with:http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-4/qid=1166550217/ref=sr_1_4/602-0717132-3543867?ie=UTF8&asin=B00004YMZE

Essentially I covered one side with large pieces of cardboard, but you have to do it in such a way that A) the cats can't get under it or through the B) the gate can still open and C) the "overlap" part that moves horizontally to go in and out of the wall-mounted latch point still can move freely. That was the hardest part. For that I took two long pieces of tape, one longer than the other. I stuck the sticky sides together with some of the longer piece sticking out at each end by about six inches, and then ran that from one side of the cardboard, under the bottom of the gate and up to the other said of said cardboard. This allowed me to attach the cardboard to the swing end of the gate, while still allowing it to glide freely back and forth.

It'll make more sense when you see photos.

-AG

I have a long hair black smoke male cat that had litterbox issues earlier on last year. He ended up having some kind of urinary track infection and he was apparently going out of his way to get my attention to his discomfort by avoiding the cat box. Some meds cleared it up and a diet change, but sometimes issues like that or diabetes can be a cause of litterbox misbehavior.

I know have two cat boxes for him in case I am slow on the clean up.

Good Luck.

Whispering Thunder

I had 3 cats at one time, and only one of them was the "naughty" one. She would pee and poop wherever she felt like it. Fortunately, the younger 2 didn't pick up her nasty habit! I was told to have at least 1 litter box for each cat. So I had one on each floor of my house. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to have more than 1 per cat. THe "naught" cat was a pure bred Himalayan, and I found out later in her life that that is a character trait for that breed. I used black lights and special cleaners at the pet store to clean up after her, but nothing seemed to work or deter her. She was checked for urinary problems, but nothing showed up. Sometimes, it is something you will just have to put up. The best hardest is being smarter than they are!!!!! LOL.

LtW

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THe "naught" cat was a pure bred Himalayan, and I found out later in her life that that is a character trait for that breed.

We had a male pure bred Himalayan once. Absolutely beautiful cat, but totally Schizophrenic!Indestructable and fearless. He would back our Doberman into a corner without hissing or swatting; just looking at him hard!

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totally Schizophrenic!Indestructable and fearless. He would back our Doberman into a corner without hissing or swatting; just looking at him hard!

LOL yup - you got that one right!!!! THey are beautiful, but VERY tempermental. Ours wouldn't put up wtih any guff from the kittens. She RULED!!! Even over the dog (which is a baby anyway - a Golden!!!). (She has since gone to Kitty heaven!! :( )

I have three cats (two "mutts," both torties), and my new one who looks like a Himalayan or Persian or some such thing. I picked him up, believe it or not, on a letterboxing adventure with my mom. We believed him to have been dumped and I brought him home with me. He looks just like a Himalayan, but his face is sorta striped. He's sooooooo pretty, and is the sweetest thing! Very loving and cuddly. If he's a mixed variety kitty and not a real Himalayan/Persian/whatever, sounds like it's prolly a good thing! :)

Earlier today, I let my "grouchy ol' lady" tortie (Sunspot) in, and I heard Koki (the one mentioned above) scream and hiss at her. I looked over and she's looking at him like, "You dim wit!" Kinda had this look like she wanted roll her eyes, shake her head at him and tell him to shut up and get a grip. She's such a queen, she thinks. haha! She's the first cat I ever had and she thinks she rules. heehee!

Becky

Could this be a possible solution? ;)

http://www.stuffonmycat.com/index.php?itemid=2749

TG

I Love it!!!! What a panic!!!! LOL!!! TOO funny!!!!

Great picture!!!

LTW

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Could this be a possible solution? ;)

http://www.stuffonmycat.com/index.php?itemid=2749

Only after he's declawed! I'm not going to put life, limb and eyeballs at risk!

-AG

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Only after he's declawed!

From a thread about cat's scratching:

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I have heard declawing being compared to cutting off your fingers at the first knuckle - not a pleasant thought. The shelter where I got my cats won't give you a cat if you even consider declawing.

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Definately try whatever you can to avoid declawing since what Trekkie Gal theorized is true; if you check your cat anatomy, the claw is actually the last knuckle on the toes and taking that away seems rather cruel (plus if you find stray puppies like we have, it makes them less likely to leave that inherited-from-the-neighbor cat that has no claws alone since the cat smacking them in the head doesn't hurt them).

Please don't declaw.

TG

Cats make messes to signal that something isn't right in their world. Look around. What might be upsetting your cats? If you had to put your face inside the litterbox, would you gag, or would it be okay? Are the cats scared or stressed about anything? Has something changed in their lives? Are they ill?

Cats aren't vindictive. They just don't have that kind of long-term memory. They are probably just trying to communicate, about something that is really upsetting them.

Lisascenic

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Cats make messes to signal that something isn't right in their world. Look around. What might be upsetting your cats? If you had to put your face inside the litterbox, would you gag, or would it be okay? Are the cats scared or stressed about anything? Has something changed in their lives? Are they ill?

Cats aren't vindictive. They just don't have that kind of long-term memory. They are probably just trying to communicate, about something that is really upsetting them.

Nothing that I can think of. Their litterbox gets cleaned daily, sometimes twice on the days that I'm at home. The only thing that has changed in his world is the Christmas tree, but that's been up for a week and after the initial fascination wore off, they've left it alone for the most part. I don't keep the water in the tree stand full enough to where the cats can get to it. He also came face-to-face with the dog (who lives outside in an insulated, well-sheltered dog house with a cozy dog bed, and that's inside our garage with plenty of space outside) in the past week, and I'm bearing the scars to prove it. But the dog never comes in the house and I know the cat has smelled the dog on our clothing and hands before, so it shouldn't be anything new.

He seems fine after his fall the other day, but I suppose if he's injured internally that could be something. The rest of his behavior is fine. Normal walking/movement, sleeping, activity, eating, other eliminations, etc.

I guess I'll be taking him in to the vet this week just to make sure. I joke about having the vet on automatic withdrawal payments from our checking account. It's not that funny anymore! :-P

-AG

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I joke about having the vet on automatic withdrawal payments from our checking account. It's not that funny anymore! :-P

I've been there, it stops being funny after a while, lol! But the peace of mind, that helps. You know there's pet insurance out there that could help? Sorry I don't know where, I never bought any (dumb of me!).

moonduck

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I don't want another box in the house b/c I don't want the litter everywhere (it's in the mud room currently).

Something our Vet told me about when a new stray male came into our lives (and it turned out to be true although I thought it sounded crazy at the time): buy a second litter pan. The cats will use one to pee, the other to poop. Sure enough, both males did just that. We just have 2 cats now, a male & female and each cat has their own pan, and really it's not that much more work to keep clean. I use "Feline Pine" litter, shaped in pellets, smells good & doesn't have any dust....Once I tried a similar looking litter made from grains. Wow, stuff looked like it was lasting a whole week, so nice and clean on top....then I noticed the smell. Emptied the pan and all the pee was in a sluge at the bottom. Ick. Ick. Ick.

You might want to try a product like "Simple Solution" to remove the smell where they messed so the cat won't return to the scene of the crime. There are several brand names, some with perfumes, some without, all have enzymes that eat the urine & feces, plus detergents to clean. They really work, and are available in pet supply stores.

catbead

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Something our Vet told me about when a new stray male came into our lives (and it turned out to be true although I thought it sounded crazy at the time): buy a second litter pan. The cats will use one to pee, the other to poop. Sure enough, both males did just that.

This has been a consistent recommendation that I'm going to have to try. We really don't have another place for another pan, though. :-\ I'll have to figure that out.

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You might want to try a product like "Simple Solution" to remove the smell where they messed so the cat won't return to the scene of the crime. There are several brand names, some with perfumes, some without, all have enzymes that eat the urine & feces, plus detergents to clean. They really work, and are available in pet supply stores.

Fortunately, everything that he's peed on has been machine washable. It hasn't been on any furniture (except the leather couch a couple months ago and I enzymed the heck out of it and it hasn't happened again). I hope it doesn't come to that! I'll keep it in mind, though.

Thanks, to everyone!
-AG

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buy a second litter pan. The cats will use one to pee, the other to poop. Sure enough, both males did just that.

Do I have weird cats? They both use both boxes for both businesses. They don't separate the pee and the poo. And they are both male.

TG

Hi all - had to chime in on this issue, as I have some experience here as well...

I have four kitties; three are mine from when I was married, and one is my boyfriend's from before we were together. His kitty is old and cranky but very affectionate, but my kitties don't like him and the feeling is mutual.

Old kitty (Pugsley) gets run of our bedroom. He gets fed separately in there with the door shut because he is old and cranky and only eats high-falutin' fancy food, which my other boys will steal from him given half a chance. He's also the only one with a litterbox problem - we've built a covered sandbox in the backyard for all of them, and my boys use it, but Pugsley sometimes just poops whereever he damn well pleases. For a long time it was up and down the hallway by our front door, now it's in our bedroom in front of our dresser.

By most accounts, the best policy is to keep one litterbox for each cat you own, plus one. In my case, that would be five litterboxes! But, like many of you, I live in a small apartment with nowhere to keep five boxes. So since Pugs is the only one with the problem, I keep two for him, in the bedroom where the territory is already his, in a far corner. I don't think the other cats use them, but I know Pugsley does.

Sadly, this doesn't entirely keep him from pooping on the floor when it suits him. Vets and I have not been able to figure out this behavioral issue in this cat. For many cats it can be dissatisfaction with environment, number or placement of boxes or even the kind of litter in them (I use a brand called Swheat Scoop, which is totally people and cat safe, low-dust, flushable, biodegradeable, and very effective at controlling odor). For some cats it is a reaction to a dislike of their food. For others it is acting out for lack of attention. In Pugsley's case, he is old - at least 17 - and I think this problem of his is tied to his senility and related grumpyness. I think it's something I'm just going to have to put up with for as long as he's with us, because I love him. Maybe in your cat's case he was simply being defiant, and asserting his dominance over your wishes to keep him out of the forbidden room!

Please don't give up on your kittens if this issue persists or you cannot immediately resolve it. Sometimes it just requires methodically attempting one fix after another until you hit on the right one. In the meantime, I'd close the door to that room whether you gate the stairs or not, and see if kitty asserts his dominance anywhere else. If so, then try the list of solutions, one by one.

For anyone considering declawing, I beg you to reconsider. It is a cruel and painful procedure that can cripple a cat and cause behavioral problems. There are humane alternatives that can save your furniture and your sanity and your kitty's claws - I've heard great things about clawcaps, as someone mentioned above. There is a wealth of information about declawing at the URL listed below; please read about this procedure and what it really means before making any decisions. Both your kitty and I will thank you!
http://www.pawproject.com/html/faqs.asp

I grew up on a ranch in AZ with my mom, who can do almost anything a Vet Tech can do and who has assisted many Vets in on-the-spot animal care, so I know a little bit about animals and animal behaviour - particularly cats - and am happy to contribute what I know when I can. I hope the information I've shared here can be of some use to you!

Wishing you many fluffy kitty headbutts,
Eclipse

This may sound mean, but I'm wondering if it might work. I know with dogs, you are supposed to rub their nose in the poop and say something like, "Bad dog!" while you are doing it. Might this work with cats as well?

I've owned both dogs and cats (I am actually in love more with cats), but I can't seem to remember if we ever had this problem. What I do know is that our cats were allowed outside because we lived in the middle of the woods with our nearest neighbors about a half mile away, so I have a feeling that with all of that freedom, they may have been less inclined to bother marking things inside or pooping where they shouldn't.

The other thing I can think of is that if you were able to manage to catch them in the act, having a spray bottle handy with water in it and spraying them with it can be a great deterrent for just about anything. Because it is just water, you aren't hurting them at all, but once cats manage to associate what is distasteful to them--getting wet--with what you find distasteful--pooping or peeing where they should not--they usually get the picture and stop it. It's kind of like the way one disciplines children--if you do something I don't like, you have to do something you don't like--like have a time out or whatever.

I hope you find something that works. Good luck!

Pied Piper

My experience with rubbing cat's noses in their poop has not brought the desired results. They still do it. The water sprayed in their face is far more effective!

LTW

I think that the nose in the scene of the crime solution works with dogs but not with cats. Dogs and cats have differing social structures.

Dogs think "how can I please my person?"

Cats think "what the *%#&@$& is that person's problem?"

But cats do seem to repond to the Hand of God treatment, so if you are stealthy with the spray waterbottle, this approach sometimes works. Usually, the cats just looks at you with distain and stalks off.

Lisa