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I guess I"m just tired of reading how newbies are a blight on all that is holy in letterboxing. *insert tongue in cheek here*

I'll plead guilty to being a blight! I'm a blighty, blighty blight if ever a whever blight there was.

But I'm TERRIBLY CUTE!

MisterSnarky-- who doesn't mind annoying people to find out information (so there!)

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If you wanna work that hard to cheat, I guess that's up to you.

Whats wrong w/using all resources available to you? Weather its using Google to find the answers to clues, or emailing another LBer when you're at your wits end. They do not have to help or could just tell you you're hot/cold. Just because you think its cheating doesn't make it so.

Kinda iroinc you have this quote on your profile, "If anything is to be accomplished, some rules must be broken.", but say the opposite.

Someone's hyper.

So how long do you guys think it will take for someone to call for a re-vote? =)

>>>>>So how long do you guys think it will take for someone to call for a re-vote? =)


I just love the humor on this site!!!! LOL

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I do wonder about those who put a lot of stock in previous finds and attempts. Is going out on a hike and not coming up with a rubber stamp image to show for it really that much of a disaster that you must resort to online research or even contacting previous finders to make sure the box is really there before you set out?

In my case, people were contacting me about a defunct letterboxer's box (because I had been one of the first to find it and knew where it was supposed to be), after the fact. They had gone to search for it and couldn't find it. They wanted confirmation that they were looking in the right place and that if it really was missing there was no point for them to try again.

Lone R

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I can go to the park in my town. I can geocache in my town. My kids would be perfectly content with that. I can not, however, box in my town easily. If I'm going to drag them on an all day, 250 mile jaunt, spending my time and hard earned money on gas, then yeah, I want a

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rubber stamp image to show for it

But, then again, maybe it's just me.

Nope, I feel the same.

Lone R

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For the same reason a baseball team records their wins and losses.

When a ball team loses, it is a REAL loss. When you don't find a letterbox, I would guess that there is at least a 50% chance that you didn't look in the right spot. Not a REAL situation at all.

When a ball team loses, their record suffers. When a letterboxer lists an "attempt" on a box that is really there, the planter suffers in several ways. Future searchers may be discouraged from looking for it or the planter may have to make an unnecessary trip to check on a box which is right where it belongs.

I don't understand the analogy at all.

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As an analogy, my dad is an avid crossword-puzzle dude. He will do things like use the clues by themselves without the provided grid and make it harder for himself to complete the puzzle (he forces himself to guess the layout of the crossword grid as well as the words). He wants more of a challenge, but that doesn't mean that folks who use the regular puzzle grid and look up words in a dictionary are bad crossword puzzle do-ers or that they have "missed the point" of the crossword puzzle.

Right! It's about how they personally enjoy solving the puzzle. One gets gratification out of challenging himself and the other get equal gratification out of completing the puzzle even if they need to use a dictionary for a word or two.

I suppose if they were in a competition then using a dictionary would be cheating. But letterboxing is not a competition, it's a leisurely activity which includes the fun & excitement of a finding a stamp that someone has left for us to discover.

Lone R

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When a letterboxer lists an "attempt" on a box that is really there, the planter suffers in several ways. Future searchers may be discouraged from looking for it or the planter may have to make an unnecessary trip to check on a box which is right where it belongs.

I try to place my boxes in places I would enjoy re-visiting. I like to be able to check on them about once a season or when there's an attempt notice.

Someone mentioned earlier that when you place an attempt you should contact the owner and let them know where you had trouble. This would let the owner know if there's some confusion with the clues, if the landmarks have changed, if you looked in the wrong spot or if you looked in the right spot and the box may actually be missing.

Lone R

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So how long do you guys think it will take for someone to call for a re-vote? =)

I just love the humor on this site!!!!

Hey, it's electronic, isn't it! No paper trail! It's rigged, I tell ya!

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Right! It's about how they personally enjoy solving the puzzle. One gets gratification out of challenging himself and the other get equal gratification out of completing the puzzle even if they need to use a dictionary for a word or two.

All well and good. What I wanna know is how many people enjoy working crossword puzzles by looking over the answer key before they begin!

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No paper trail! It's rigged, I tell ya!

Oh, yeah. I can tell *you're* from Florida!

DebBee

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Future searchers may be discouraged from looking for it...

I just got my signature stamp finished last night and have yet to attempt my first find, so please excuse me if I am stepping out of line.

Discouraged? On the contrary! I would take that as a particular challenge. It may be the cop in me, or just an overwhelming sense of curiousity. I think a lot of people might feel the same.

(It's been a long, long time since I was a rookie, but I still know that they have their place.. I'll try to stay in mine.)

J-- (Big Ox)

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I do not care for the whole "attempted" category.

The only reason I actually like it is because some of the ones that I've attempted I've actually come to find that they were destroyed or missing. So, I keep them on the attempted list to check on every once in a while to see if they are all better yet. Which I guess the "watch" or "tag" feature would do just as well.... but that's the only good thing I've found about the feature so far.....personally, of course.

-Infinity

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On a geocache, I'd log that as a DNF because I could mention in the log that it was tried at night. With a letterbox, you don't get a chance to write any text other than to the owner.

Huh??? I didn't realize that email was so severely limited.

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Right! It's about how they personally enjoy solving the puzzle. One gets gratification out of challenging himself and the other get equal gratification out of completing the puzzle even if they need to use a dictionary for a word or two.

All well and good. What I wanna know is how many people enjoy working crossword puzzles by looking over the answer key before they begin!

Answer: The people who are teaching their kids how to work crossword puzzles! ;-)

Then the enjoyment comes from opening their little minds to new things without letting them get completely defeated in their first few tries and the family time spent together, rather than the level of challenge or sense of competition. Like when the teacher's edition of a classroom textbook has the answer key (aren't teachers supposed to know how to work the problems? but they use the answer keys for legitimate purposes to keep the class on track)

For them "the point" is just completely different, but they get as much satisfaction as you or I-- maybe more.

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So how long do you guys think it will take for someone to call for a re-vote?

As long as there aren't any hanging chadams!

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On a geocache, I'd log that as a DNF because I could mention in the log that it was tried at night. With a letterbox, you don't get a chance to write any text other than to the owner.

Huh??? I didn't realize that email was so severely limited.

OK, I attempt a letterbox at night, don't find it, so I log an attempt and then write e-mails explaining that it was a nighttime attempt and send them to -- who? Everybody who might ever consider hunting this box? Is there a board for this?

Oops, sorry; I misread your post.

Gee, I'd like to see it written that they are discouraged from providing such assistance</quote

I don't understand why some people want the game to be as hard as possible! There are plenty of people out here that want to play but have small children, health issues , developmently delayed adults in their family, ect. that make it so we can barely letterbox at times. If you don't want any additional assistance, if you want this game to be as hard as possible that's fine, but not all of us do.

Without some extra knowledge about boxes some of us wouldn't be able to play at all. Personally I'm in a situation right now where any extra knowledge I can receive about a box is welcome. Don't misunderstand me, I don't want someone to carry me to the box and then show me where it is, but my health is precarious and I need to be sure I'm capable of making it to the box and back.

I am aware that there are planters out there that don't want to give out extra info about there boxes and that is perfectly ok. I may not get a chance to look for those boxes but that's fine with me.

I just don't understand why some people want to control how others play. Everyone should be making there own choices about what info they want/are willing to give and stop freaking out if someone else does things differently.

Thanks,
Red Soup

>>>>OK, I attempt a letterbox at night, don't find it, so I log an attempt and then write e-mails explaining that it was a nighttime attempt and send them to -- who? Everybody who might ever consider hunting this box? Is there a board for this?<<<<<

Using this same logic, I could start after a box, have a flat tire and have to change plans entirely and LOG IT AS AN ATTEMPT?????? [if it is a nighttime box, I should think the clues would state that]

Is this being illogical or nitpicky??? ....or am I just totally misreading this?

Okay, I'm wondering now, why do we have the ability to log attempts. Originally, when it was started, what was the reason? Is it for the finder to track their attempted boxes, or it it to let the planter know of a potentially missing box, or is it to let future finders know when a box wasn't found?

I never felt too strongly about it, but kind of liked it. Now I'm wondering if it's a good thing at all . . .

DebBee

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Originally, when it was started, what was the reason? Is it for the finder to track their attempted boxes, or it it to let the planter know of a potentially missing box, or is it to let future finders know when a box wasn't found?

I'd say it's for all 3 reasons.

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Now I'm wondering if it's a good thing at all . . .

I think they are all good and valid reasons, I don't see that these reasons would worry a finder. And if you are a finder that doesn't want to know who found/attempted the box, then don't click the "show all finds" button.

As a planter I think the attempt/find feature is great - they alert me to problems and if there are no problems, i.e. mostly finds, it's more likely that LBers will go search for my letterboxes unless they interpret that the box is too easy and they'd rather pass it up for a more challenging box.

If someone marks an attempt, I'll go check on the box and if it's there I'll mark it active. That way the next finder knows it was there when I looked for it and probably a little tricky to find. If I get another attempt I'll consider tweaking the clues (which I have done on a box that had 2 attempts in a row right after I planted it) because I want people to find my letterboxes.

Lone R

I can go to the park in my town. I can geocache in my town. My kids would be perfectly content with that. I can not, however, box in my town easily. If I'm going to drag them on an all day, 250 mile jaunt, spending my time and hard earned money on gas, then yeah, I want a rubber stamp image to show for it


But, then again, maybe it's just me.





Nope, I feel the same.

Jenni & Lone R,
I, too, feel this way. If I go all the way somewhere I am so 'argh' mad if I cannot find that something I was looking for. In part it is a competitive nature/spirit and part I want the kids to have fun.

The first box we went for was listed as 'might be missing', but a note at the top said that the placer was going "on the weekend" to replace it! Well, we found out about LB on a Wednesday and were going on Thursday for our first adventure, so this statement (on LBNA's clues) indicated to me that since it was midweek the box had been taken care of and we were right in going to look. Come to find out this box has been missing for many months (maybe years) and the owner has no intention of relpacing it (contrary to the note!) and oh well.

I am not saying that I let this be the factor that would cast a shadow on the rest of LB for me or my family, but knowing when attempts were made and by whom will help some know if they should make the 'trek'.

We had fun on this outing and have made one other attempt without finding a box (which does still exist- we were just at the wrong rock *wink*) and had fun on that outing as well. We even had three brand-new-to-boxing families with us and a total of 9 children from 4 to 13 years. It isn't all in the stamp or the box or who has been there before you or if you are the first, but in the thrill of the search and find! and the beauty of the area and all that accompanies being out and about.

Letterboxing is multifaceted and those looking to 'BOX' it up nicely for everyone just exactly the way they get enjoyment and everyone must conform or be on the outs, spoil the fun for those uncovering the hobby for themselves.

Attempts should not make the placer/planter feel a black (or red) mark has been placed on them or their box, it is just information (in the information age, why should we be surprised!). Use it as you will. If "attempt" keep someone from going after your box, whose loss is it anyway? Maybe they would be the one to make your box go missing by not rehiding or wet by putting the lock N lock cover on upside down!

Really, in the larger scope of things, I have to think about the wonder that this hobby exists to this day an ocean away from its starting ground and some 150+ years later and is still a fun (nearly free-okay minus all the LnLs and the PXcut orders!) adventure that I can go on with my 4 'future adults' & current junior letterboxers and be out in the awesome creation and be together as a family and having FUN.

Six Stars

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I can go to the park in my town. I can geocache in my town. My kids would be perfectly content with that. I can not, however, box in my town easily. If I'm going to drag them on an all day, 250 mile jaunt, spending my time and hard earned money on gas

I couldn't have said it better myself! As we begin to exhaust the closest boxes, we are looking at taking a 5 year old and a 2 year old on daytrips. They love "treasure hunting" but don't love the car rides. If there isn't likely to be a box at the end, I would choose another trip! You get it, it's just a different hobby for different people.

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Don't misunderstand me, I don't want someone to carry me to the box and then show me where it is, but my health is precarious and I need to be sure I'm capable of making it to the box and back.

You bring up a great point. That is why drive-bys are important. Not only those with poor health but those with small children need to know exactly what type of hike/walk we are in for on a hunt. Three mile hikes are a turn off when with my family. May be more inclined by myself but I want to know that after a 3 mile hike I'm going to find the box.

One of my few LBNA attempts included an hour detour out of my way and a two mile hike to not find the box. Rather frustrating in the end. So leave the attempts. If it is possibly missing we skip the search unless it is a drive-by.

But whatever we do lets not put the hobby of letterboxing in a nice neat (pardon the pun) BOX on a shelf. It should not be rife with rules or exclusive in any ways (like f-counts).

Happy holidays and a healthy new year!

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On a geocache, I'd log that as a DNF because I could mention in the log that it was tried at night. With a letterbox, you don't get a chance to write any text other than to the owner.

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Huh??? I didn't realize that email was so severely limited.

I believe he is referring to those the online geocaching logs that support notes versus just seeing "attempted" here. Sure, they can tell the planter what happened but the next person who (heaven forbid) actually looked at the previous attempts before looking would not know why, only that it was not found.

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I do not care for the whole "attempted" category. Why would I want to publicly announce my failure to find a box?

My feelings exactly. I usually consider it to be my own failure when I cannot locate a box and I, too, do not think I want it publicized.

I also agree with this viewpoint. Why would I tell everyone that I can't find a certain box? I'm supposed to be this well experienced veteran letterboxer! If I mark a box as an attempt, maybe people would think it was missing. Or they might think my letterboxing skills were slipping :-)

I don't use the feature.

-Amanda from Seattle

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If I mark a box as an attempt, maybe people would think it was missing.

But let me offer another scenario:

Mary Sue Boxer is a fairly new boxer with better than average finding skills. However, she is very well aware of her own (and her family's) limitation.

Mary Sue Boxer sees you attempted a box 6 months ago, and that's the last activity the box has had. Beyond that, Mary Sue doesn't really know what to make of it, but knows it's a bit out of the way on a 250 mile round trip she's planning. Since it is out of the way, Mary Sue makes an effort to contact the owner of the box to ensure it is still active, but these have gone unanswered.

Mary Sue has met you at events, and has even boxed with you a time or two. Mary Sue trust your judgement and knows you are aware of her circumstances and limitations. Mary Sue contacts you regarding the box in question, to get your opinion of the situation.

You, in your boxing experience, have deduced that the box is actually MISSING, but there's really no way to put that on the clue page. You can only log it as an attempt. You tell Mary Sue, as it's out of the way to skip this box, since it's missing. There are other boxes on her route with which she and her boys, Huck and Tom, are more likely to have better success, and you wish her a happy trip.


Your logged attempt didn't discourage, per se, but rather suggested to a novice boxer that perhaps a bit more research was necessary, given her circumstances.

Is this a bad thing?