I'm sure this question has been discussed before, so if someone can simply point me toward the previous discussion, I'd appreciate it. Thanks!

When listing a box on AQ, you have the option of trying to hide the listing from search engines. Just exactly how are we supposed to use that? When I first saw it, I thought "I don't care if search engines find my box listing" so I left it unchecked. Then I realized that there are a couple of my boxes that I'd rather weren't findable by Google, so I checked the box on those.

But it has occurred to me that checking the box all the time might be the considerate thing to do, to prevent search engines from wasting their processor time on letterbox listings and to save people the time wasted reading about letterboxes during a search for something completely unrelated. After all, anyone actually looking for a letterbox will be looking either on AQ or LbNA, not Google or Ask.com, right? Anyone doing a Google search for "Stone Mountain" is looking for information on Stone Mountain, not letterboxes at Stone Mountain, right?

Another reason to use the hide option is to keep people from going to see what the letterbox is and taking, damaging, or putting the box at risk. Just my .02 worth.

Janet, Blooming Flowers

I've wondered why GT doesn't make this automatic unless there are some folks that WANT their boxes to be found by a search engine.

Shiloh

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Anyone doing a Google search for "Stone Mountain" is looking for information on Stone Mountain, not letterboxes at Stone Mountain, right?

*snicker* Based on my Stone Mountain box, there were a surprising number of hits by people looking for information about fishing at Stone Mountain. Probably got more hits from people wanting to fish than from people looking for my box.

There are people who try to find clues using Google, though. So far this month, AQ has recorded hits by people searching for "letterbox needham town forest", "letterboxing ohio", "illinois letterboxes", "letterboxing indiana", "ri letterboxes", "letterboxing nc", "letterboxing florida", "letterboxing iowa", "misery loves company letterbox", "letterboxing california", "june 8 1959" (yes, that's a letterboxing references *wink*), "directions to tom dick and harry trailhead" (probably not a letterboxer, but they could very well have their answers answered by a clue for a box at Tom, Dick, and Harry trailhead), more states I won't bother to mention, "letterboxing cleveland tennessee", "george site atlasquest.com" (not really sure what that one means), "state college pa letterboxes", "legerdemaine letterbox", "legerdemaine letterbox clues", "letterboxing calendar", "letterboxing tucson az", "atlas quest letterboxes", "tavern state college pa letterbox", "letterboxing casa grande az", "letterboxers and tucson", "letterboxing by horseback", "calkins point letterbox", "south florida letterboxing", "letterbox manatee", "teamgreendragon carla minors" (something you want to tell us, TGD?), "tyler state park letterboxing", "letterboxing cougar mountain", "letterboxes wakefield ma", "bunker hill letterbox", "aahz letterboxing"--to name but a few. =)

My point being--there are people searching for letterboxing information using Google and other search engines, and sometimes such clues can be helpful even to people who aren't letterboxers.

In any case, I provide the option. *shrug* Some people would rather not have their clues listed on search engines, and others do. And most people, I suspect, probably don't really care. =)

-- Ryan

"june 8 1959" (yes, that's a letterboxing references *wink*),

Thank you! I enjoy puzzles! -- Dagonell the Pirate

I really do not mind having search engines pull up our clues, as long as I remember that can be done. I did post one letterbox with the title of "Yosemite" on purpose just so the letterbox cops at NPS can get tweaked a bit.

Don

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there are people searching for letterboxing information using Google and other search engines...

I'm sure -- and I would never suggest that AQ as a whole should be hidden from such searches. But the question was regarding hiding individual letterbox clues. It seems to me that if someone is looking for a letterbox, the first thing to do is find AQ -- even if you must use Google to find it. Then search for letterboxes you're interested in using AQ's search engines.

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Probably got more hits from people wanting to fish than from people looking for my box.

This is the crux of the question. Is this a good thing? Yes, you may introduce people to our pastime whose only intention was to look into fishing. That could be arguably either a good thing or a bad thing, depending on whether they become hooked (sorry, couldn't resist!) or they become letterbox vandals. But if they were really only looking for information on fishing, you've wasted their time. And the next time they are heading out towards their favorite fishing spot and see somebody snoopin' around in the bushes, they may decide to watch him more closely to see what he's up to.

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And most people, I suspect, probably don't really care. =)

I suppose that's the question. For those who don't care, what should the default be? At present, I know that if you do nothing the option remains unchecked, AQ does not try to hide your clues from search engines. But perhaps the default should be checked, and you must uncheck it if you want your clues to be findable via Google or Ask.com.

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"june 8 1959" (yes, that's a letterboxing references *wink*),

Thank you! I enjoy puzzles!

And this sounds like a time that option should remain unchecked.

<quote."After all, anyone actually looking for a letterbox will be looking either on AQ or LbNA, not Google or Ask.com, right?"

Wrong

Aha! Please explain. Some people use Google rather than AQ or LbNA to search for letterboxes?

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I did post one letterbox with the title of "Yosemite" on purpose just so the letterbox cops at NPS can get tweaked a bit.

Oooooh, good plan! Do we have any evidence that the letterbox cops at NPS actually do check online to make sure nobody is planting boxes on our public lands?

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But if they were really only looking for information on fishing, you've wasted their time.

It's thoughtful of you to be so concerned about people's time who want to fish at Stone Mountain. =) I could point out, though, when people do a Google search, it usually puts a little text of the context the word(s) were found in. More than likely, something about that text grabbed their interest and they wanted to click through to the page knowing darned well it wasn't really about fishing at Stone Mountain.

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For those who don't care, what should the default be? At present, I know that if you do nothing the option remains unchecked, AQ does not try to hide your clues from search engines.

That's the default on LbNA (you don't even have an option to opt out of search engine listings), so I kept the default the same. *shrug*

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And this sounds like a time that option should remain unchecked.

Oh, nonsense. =) Most people looking for that date are trying to find out what's so special about it, and pulling up the clue at Atlas Quest isn't going to help them. (Doesn't really hurt them either, though.)

-- Ryan

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Do we have any evidence that the letterbox cops at NPS actually do check online to make sure nobody is planting boxes on our public lands?

Does an official warning from the guys at Capitol Reef, Arches, and Harper's Ferry count?

-- Ryan

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Do we have any evidence that the letterbox cops at NPS actually do check online to make sure nobody is planting boxes on our public lands?

We planted a letterbox on Santa Cruz island just off the California coast. The Title was Diary of a Sea Captains Wife. The location of the box at Pelican Bay was indicated in a photo inside the book as well as on the cover. The box was in place for nearly one year when Ron G planted one on Anacapa Island and titled it as such.
Now there is a city of Santa Cruz on the mainland but there is nothing that I'm aware of called Anacapa other than the island. Within one month of Ron's planting both boxes were impounded and letters and emails went out advising us of the violations.
The boxes were held at the Ventura office of the NPS. Now we did have a a question whether or not to pick up the boxes. We did contemplate posting new directions to the NPS office for the clues, but we figured that if folks went into the NPS office and requested to stamp in the letterboxes and then handed the boxes back to the agent at the desk, it would just tick them off more.
Ron finally had more courage than I and picked up the boxes.
Yes I do believe that either NPS googles or someone advised NPS to google using names of parks, or sites within parks, but they had to do some research to pick up our Diary of a Sea Captains Wife.
These two letterboxes became the start of the "C" count listings during a period of discussion about P and F counts on the main LbNA list. As a joke Ron and I started listing a "C" number after the "F " and "P" listing when ever we posted(as was the custom then). Pretty soon others started using the "c" count on their confiscated boxes as well.

Don

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Do we have any evidence that the letterbox cops at NPS actually do check online to make sure nobody is planting boxes on our public lands?

Does an official warning from the guys at Capitol Reef, Arches, and Harper's Ferry count?

Depends. Did the warning refer to particular letterbox listings on AQ, or was it just a general warning addressed to the letterboxing community?

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Did the warning refer to particular letterbox listings on AQ, or was it just a general warning addressed to the letterboxing community?

The warning referred to boxes that Amanda and I planted in those parks. *nodding*

-- Ryan

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Within one month of Ron's planting both boxes were impounded and letters and emails went out advising us of the violations.

Hey, I'm impressed! It was my understanding that the NPS would just trashcan a box when they found one, and you never found out what happened to it! It's actually very considerate of them to contact you!

Did they fine you or otherwise press charges?

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The boxes were held at the Ventura office of the NPS. Now we did have a a question whether or not to pick up the boxes.

At this point, were the boxes of any value to you? Presumably the stamp was associated with the hiding place, you wouldn't be rehiding that stamp somewhere else -- unless you wanted to be cute and make a box somewhere relating this story.

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We did contemplate posting new directions to the NPS office for the clues, but we figured that if folks went into the NPS office and requested to stamp in the letterboxes and then handed the boxes back to the agent at the desk, it would just tick them off more.

Oh, that's funny! I woulda been tempted for sure, although I'm not sure I would have led other letterboxers into the jaws of death without telling them why the boxes were at the NPS office.

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Ron finally had more courage than I and picked up the boxes.

What sort of abuse did he suffer at the hands of the authorities while there? Did they threaten to rough 'im and cuff 'im if he's ever seen on NPS property again? Or did they apologize profusely for the inane regulations that they are charged with enforcing?

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Yes I do believe that either NPS googles or someone advised NPS to google using names of parks, or sites within parks, but they had to do some research to pick up our Diary of a Sea Captains Wife.

Aaaaargh. There's a box or two of mine I might just pull off of LbNA altogether, since they don't have an option of blocking search engines.

Is there any way we could get the NPS to revisit this whole issue? After all, I understand they now have a new head.

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I really do not mind having search engines pull up our clues, as long as I remember that can be done. I did post one letterbox with the title of "Yosemite" on purpose just so the letterbox cops at NPS can get tweaked a bit.

You should also remember not to name your box the Folsom Prison Letterbox. I get email all the time asking how to mail stuff to the prisoners.

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Do we have any evidence that the letterbox cops at NPS actually do check online to make sure nobody is planting boxes on our public lands?

My Saguaro Sunset box met up with Saguaro NP mounties after three years in place. A newbie started placing boxes in the ame park, listing its name in their clues which led to my first C count box. I was told that park volunteers search for letterbox and geocache placements. The ranger who gathered my letterbox up into his hot little hands was very friendly and returned the box to me when I asked for it. He even accommodated me by signing into the logbook! He pasted in his card and signed it "The Spoilsport.

That said, I must comment that a couple of the most creative letterboxers I know discovered the pastime via a Google search on wildflowers. I usually leave that search engine box unchecked in the hopes that more of the same will appear on the scene. Funhog

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Did they fine you or otherwise press charges?

Threatening letter.

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Presumably the stamp was associated with the hiding place, you wouldn't be rehiding that stamp somewhere else -- unless you wanted to be cute

Actually we had two there. One became a HHer at Hog Heaven (Betcha you didn't know that little tidbit Funhog) called Macon (Kevin's Brother). The other is at a location that is really masked in the clue title

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What sort of abuse did he suffer at the hands of the authorities while there?

See above..Threatening letter.

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Is there any way we could get the NPS to revisit this whole issue? After all, I understand they now have a new head.

That might be a possibility, but I'm not sure I would like the concept. The NPS has been revisiting their working plan and scoping various changes. One concept they have seriously been considering is being more friendly to businesses. I read this as "We aren't making enough money, so lets sell more stuff." This might be set up a letterbox and/or geocache and pay rent for the right to do so.

Don

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Oh, nonsense. =) Most people looking for that date are trying to find out what's so special about it, and pulling up the clue at Atlas Quest isn't going to help them. (Doesn't really hurt them either, though.)

this is true. besides, most letterboxers who google that date are looking to solve the clue for THAT box anyway. horse before cart, right.

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Depends. Did the warning refer to particular letterbox listings on AQ, or was it just a general warning addressed to the letterboxing community?

i think the exact chapter and verse.. i mean section and subsection, has been posted before... maybe if you search through the forums you can find it.

I love the "c" count idea.
So far I am only up to a C1 (that I know of).

At least the park ranger was nice enough to e-mail us about it, and give us a chance to come get it. They told us we could fill out the Geocache application to keep it in the park, but it would have to be in a different location, closer to the trail.
He just couldn't understand that it was not like a Geocache.
They wanted us to give them the coordinates of where the box was. <like we knew them!>
The box had to be checked by us bi-weekly.
The application had to be renewed each year, with a new location.
And the kicker... at the end of every year a statistical report had to be submited with the following information: how long the cache site was out, the number of visitors to the site, their country of residence, age, and a brief description of items left.

That's near impossible!
I guess they really don't want geocaches/letterboxes there.

I wish I could go for a "C" count - as in officially confiscated We Have Your Box - well actually NOT, in my case..whew!

IF I were to keep track I'd have to add the "G count."

As in, Gardeners....they don't like me, and other urban boxers....with their pruning, cleaning, tossing and making things look PREtty....I'd have at least a 3G count (that I know about) thus far...

PREsist the G Force AND the C Count - be more stealthy-ist! My average (not including drive time is 1 hour per box to find, double or triple that ..at LEAST ...to place one!)

THERE IS NO GAME WITHOUT PLACERS! ROCK ON!

pre
snort ™
<sighing, making up words, PREviewing her message.......and thinking about ...Rocks!>

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The box had to be checked by us bi-weekly.
The application had to be renewed each year, with a new location.

It's precisely this kinda stuff that will have me pulling about a half dozen of my geocaches within the next coupla weeks and another half dozen sometime after that. The permit application makes it clear that I'm responsible for any litter in the vicinity of the cache. I'm also responsible for any inappropriate trade items left inside.

I hate to "let them win", but on the other hand they have taken all the fun out of placement and ownership. I dunno if it was their intention to drive geocachers and letterboxers out of their tracts, but that's going to be the result. Fact is, if they wanted to drive us out, they could have simply banned placement. I think they genuinely believe they're being welcoming and conciliatory, but they are bureaucrats, not hobbyists, they only understand paperwork and regulation.