I'm wanting to put out a series of LB's that are out there. Not trying to exclude anybody but there are some great places well off the beaten path that deserve boxes. I know that some people (LW) have some boxes out in the Adirondaks that require a good hike. or in some cases a paddle. does anybody know of any other such boxes? I know these boxes won't get visited as often as some of my drive by's but what the heck. I guess what I want to get a feel for is how many people might go for a box that is a minimum of a four mile hike, with the posibility of some stiff elevation gain along minimaly maintained wilderness trails, as opposed to the well maintained trails of nature preserves. I'm thinkink of the Adirondaks< Catskills, as well as the Finger Lakes Stae Forest along the FLT. Any feed back would be appreciated.


PB

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I guess what I want to get a feel for is how many people might go for a box that is a minimum of a four mile hike, with the posibility of some stiff elevation gain along minimaly maintained wilderness trails, as opposed to the well maintained trails of nature preserves. I'm thinking of the Adirondaks< Catskills, as well as the Finger Lakes State Forest along the FLT.

We'd be VERY interested if you started hiding boxes on trails like that!

We like to hike and when we plan a vacation trip our first search is to try to find an area that has long hikes with significant elevation gains AND a letterbox (or more than 1!!). Check out many of the boxes that Green Tortugua has placed in Oregon, Washington and California for examples.

We've placed some boxes ourselves on 4-9 mile hikes because that is what we would like to see more of. Most of them have seen at least a few visitors.

Wisconsin Hiker

Go for it! There are many letterboxes in the Pacific NW hidden on hikes longer than five miles and with considerable elevation gains. Granted they aren't visited as often as the easy to reach boxes but they do get visited. My box on Dog Mountain requires a seven mile roundtrip trek with a 2800' elevation gain and has been visited at least eighteen times in three years. One decidedly crazy person did it twice in a week's time because she didn't find all the clues to the boxes up there before her first ascent.

I know of a series by Double Tree that requires a twelve mile hike and then there's Ryan's Nesmith Point box. It took me three years to figure I'd reached the fitness level to get that one (ten miles roundtrip and 3800' gain.) One advantage of having boxes on a long hike is that they require way less maintenance. Speaking of backpacking, Pungent Bob and I backpacked over a hundred and twenty-five miles last summer and collected a bunch of boxes all along our way. We figured it to be one very loooooong letterboxing hike. Funhog

maybe the great green one will give us an icon to denote those hikes, maybe a hiking boot.

PB

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We've placed some boxes ourselves on 4-9 mile hikes because that is what we would like to see more of. Most of them have seen at least a few visitors.

Just a thought I want to throw out there (please don't throw anything hard back at me) because of an experience I had with my kids one day. We started out on a series that said the placers had taken about 4 hours to set the whole thing out so we figured we'd need a couple of hours to complete it. We hiked (straight up hill!) for over an hour without finding even the first land mark of the box we were looking for. After much weeping, wailing and complaining (from the kids!) I finally gave up and turned around because I knew we'd need almost that much time just to get back to the car. There was no indication that the hike was that involved, they mentioned a "primitive trail" but no indication of length. The campsite at the end of that trail was over 8 miles away but I didn't dream the boxes would be that far in. Rookie mistake, I'm sure. I suggest putting a bold warning on the top of the clues that indicates it is not a hike for the faint hearted. Give a mileage estimate. Call me lazy but I'd rather not have to decipher it among the "start up the hill" stuff. Just give it to me straight and I'll hire a babysitter and go with just my husband.
K (who'd love a whole day of letterboxing without the menagerie.)

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maybe the great green one will give us an icon to denote those hikes, maybe a hiking boot.

I should have read a little further before submitting my "put a warning on it" suggestion. I like yours better.

How about a greenish boot for a 2 mile hike, brown (dirty) boot for a 4 mile hike and a black disgusting boot for 6 or more?

K (bowing to the clever PB)

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maybe the great green one will give us an icon to denote those hikes, maybe a hiking boot.

If you want to see a list of boxes that require hikes, you can use an advanced search to list only those boxes on long hikes. You can see a list of all boxes in New York state that require at least 4 miles of hiking at http://www.atlasquest.com/lboxes/results.html?gTypeId=6;gHike=4,9999;gStateId=35 for instance.

Here's a list of boxes in New York state that require at least a 1,000 foot elevation gain: http://www.atlasquest.com/lboxes/results.html?gTypeId=6;gElev=1000,9999;gStateId=35

They're out there, and they do get finds. Boxes I've planted that require long hikes probably average about one find per year, so they don't get a lot of activity. But the people who do find them usually LOVE having a good hike to enjoy instead of those little trails at a nature center. =)

-- Ryan

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maybe the great green one will give us an icon to denote those hikes, maybe a hiking boot.

If you want to see a list of boxes that require hikes, you can use an advanced search to list only those boxes on long hikes. You can see a list of all boxes in New York state that require at least 4 miles of hiking at http://www.atlasquest.com/lboxes/results.html?gTypeId=6;gHike=4,9999;gStateId=35 for instance.

Here's a list of boxes in New York state that require at least a 1,000 foot elevation gain: http://www.atlasquest.com/lboxes/results.html?gTypeId=6;gElev=1000,9999;gStateId=35

When you go to advanced search, you can specify a minimum or maximum mileage of a hike to be displayed....of course, this only works when the planter has put in a mileage number for the hike to begin with.

-Amanda from Seattle

I must say that I agree with K here. AQ does provide a facility (sorry, Ryan has provided the facility) for planters to record the hike length and elevation gain for a box, and if I was regularly seeking boxes from this site I would look out for these to check whether I could fit the hike into the time available. In our area most boxes are within a 10-15 walk from the parking place. Much more and my wife starts to struggle a bit. So when we manage to visit your great country I will be looking for boxes that take us some interesting locations but are not too long a hike.

A friend has invited us to visit him in Atlanta and I would like to try to get over in the next year or two. So watch out in Georgia the martians might be landing ;-)

DM

I have offered to place one, sleep-over needed (one day hike in, one day hike out), for Bulldawg in the Adirondacks. There are a few places that I like up there. I hike those trails all summer long. I would be willing to listen. I also hike the Catskills (around Bear Mtn).

-WINK

DM,

Be SURE to let us know when you come to Georgia!

Amyrica

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When you go to advanced search, you can specify a minimum or maximum mileage of a hike to be displayed....of course, this only works when the planter has put in a mileage number for the hike to begin with.

How do people figure out the mileage? I haven't put it down just because I have no idea. Ours are never very long, but I don't know if we went a half mile or a mile or a mile and a half down the trail before we planted.

Mariette
(dbltall of Team Garlic)

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How do people figure out the mileage?

Depends. If you're using a guidebook, the mileage is usually listed as part of the trail information. If it's just a trail "you know" and there's no official mileage, you can usually estimate with a fair degree of precision how long a trail was based on how long it takes you to walk it. (I walk at 2 mph, and it took me 4 hours to do the hike, so it must be 8 miles.) When I was thru-hiking the AT, I became very good at estimating distance this way. I often predicted how long it would take me to reach a destination 15 miles away and would end up being off by only five minutes.

And if all else fails, you could always get yourself a pedometer, calibrate it on a trail of a known length, then use it on trails of unknown lengths. =)

So there's actually a variety of ways to get the mileage of a trail. I'm sure there are others someone else could think of. These are just the three ways I've done it.

-- Ryan

When my dh goes with me, he usually takes the GPS, so he can tell me how far we've gone. When he's not there, I have no idea. Sometimes I'll put how long it took me to walk it, just to give people some idea. But of course that varies, depending on how fast you walk (or how many small children you have with you!)

DebBee

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How do people figure out the mileage?

Ryan does say there is a variety of ways, but an obvious method he didn't mention is to use a map :-) (An 'in joke' cause Ryan is not so keen on maps as I am ;-))

You need a map of the area (the larger the scale the better) and a piece of cotton thread or string. Use the thread to measure the distance from the starting point to the box, twisting the thread around all the bends. Now cut the thread at the end, or keep your finger on the end point and lay the thread along the scale conversion measure on the map, now you can work out how far you have walked.

They also sell little mileage measures that have a little wheel to run along your map, but I prefer the bit of thread.

YT - Ryan I hope you have been following this thread :-D

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A friend has invited us to visit him in Atlanta and I would like to try to get over in the next year or two. So watch out in Georgia the martians might be landing ;-)

Make sure you plan to visit Stone Mountain just NE of the city. It is a good attempt at a Dartmoor-like collection of boxes. There are over 100 boxes (most active) in the park.

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How do people figure out the mileage?

I generally don't worry about the accuracy. If it feels like a mile hike, I put down one mile. Maybe it was shorter but difficult, or maybe it was longer but easy. Doesn't really matter, I think. Other letterboxers only want to know what sort of thing to expect; if they walk 200 yards and don't find the next clue mentioned, are they lost or have they just not walked far enough? When they park the car, will flip-flops be OK or do they need to put on the walking shoes?

Doesn't mean you have to tell them, of course. I often leave the hike length blank. Let 'em guess.

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I generally don't worry about the accuracy. If it feels like a mile hike, I put down one mile. Maybe it was shorter but difficult, or maybe it was longer but easy. Doesn't really matter, I think. Other letterboxers only want to know what sort of thing to expect; if they walk 200 yards and don't find the next clue mentioned, are they lost or have they just not walked far enough? When they park the car, will flip-flops be OK or do they need to put on the walking shoes?

Doesn't mean you have to tell them, of course. I often leave the hike length blank. Let 'em guess.

Oh, I beg to differ - it makes a lot of difference - to me (and others in my situation!). I box with my two kids 7 and 4 (on Monday!!), and it's always just us - Dad's a muggle ;-)). The 7 yo is up for a mile hike, but the 4 yo isn't. If I manage to get her to walk that far, she ends up with horrible growing pains in her legs that night, and usually the next. If I end up carrying her - well, my back and knees... it ain't lovely...... And most trails don't say whether they are jogging stoller friendly, so I assume they aren't ;-))

So until she's up to longer walks, we don't attempt anything that's noted to be a mile or more. And if a length is left blank, I read the clues and see if I can guess. If it seems long - well, maybe we can try it in a couple of years!

Personally, I'd think I was in heaven if I could go on a 5 mile hike for a box..........

As far as guess-timating the length of a hike - in my younger (and better knee'd days ;-)) I used to run on a track (1/4 mile) and ran 5K races. Most people have walked a high school or college oval track - use that as a reference. I like Ryan's method of timing it - that works well for me too, as I know about how fast I walk (and how fast the kids meander ;-)).

I once went to purchase a plastic playgym from a lady who lived out in the country - she estimated her house was about 6 miles from the main road - it was about a mile - I looked at my odometer - apparently she never had...... lol!!!

Mama Fox

Mama Fox

One of these days, we've gotta do one of those 5 milers together!

I agree, it makes a big difference to those of us with younger children whether the hike is .5 mile or a mile or more. I would rather have a mile noted even if it is just close. Then at least I know what we are getting into.

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it makes a big difference to those of us with younger children whether the hike is .5 mile or a mile or more

On one of my trips up famed Dog Mtn. (7 miles 2800' gain) I met a Mom and Dad with their five year old son. I told the young fellow he should be very proud, he was probably the youngest person on the mountain that day. He looked at me with a surprised look and said, "Oh, I did this last year!." Funhog

Okay, I've looked on the internet, I've tried to look this up on AQ, I have to ask:

What does elevation gain mean exactly. Obviously, a 2800 gain is more than a 1300 gain. But, that's all I can figure out. How do you know if your hike is an elevation gain (besides the obvious uphill climb)? I guess what I really mean is how do you know the number of the gain? Is there a way to find this information somewhere?

When I went on hikes in the past, we just went. One hike we had to literally climb uphill, almost to the point of needed one of those claw/rope things. Not like rappelling or anything, but steep. We didn't worry about the elevation gain.

Now that I'm older, I have to worry about these things. I don't want to get caught in the middle of a hike and it be sundown. I also have to worry about the others that I'm hiking with (children, less experienced than me husband).

So, if someone can help me figure this out, I'd be most appreciative.

Thank you,
Janet, Blooming Flowers

Oh, and one other thing:

What does through hiking mean? I've been wondering that one for a couple of months now. It sounds interesting and tough.

Thanks again,
Janet, Blooming Flowers

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What does elevation gain mean exactly.

Get a topographic (topo) map of the area you are hiking in. The little teeny loops indicate different heights. I think they're usually in increments of 20 feet (?).

A really neat website that will help you get used to how topo maps look and work is www.topozone.com. You can look up places you are familiar with, which makes it easier to understand the lines.

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How do you know if your hike is an elevation gain (besides the obvious uphill climb)?

A lot of parks have elevation lines on their free maps--you can usually snag one at the trailhead. Some are online.

Good luck!

--dorks anonymous

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What does through hiking mean?

It's long-distance hiking--the lenght of an entire trail in one go (like, in one calendar year). Like hiking the Pacific Crest Trail (the Canadian border to the Mexican border), or the Continental Divide Trail (which is even longer I think), and the most famous of all--the Appalachian Trail (ask the Green Tortuga about that one--somewhere on this site is his journal of that).

d.a. of d.x.m.

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What does elevation gain mean exactly. Obviously, a 2800 gain is more than a 1300 gain. But, that's all I can figure out. How do you know if your hike is an elevation gain (besides the obvious uphill climb)? I guess what I really mean is how do you know the number of the gain?

If you happen to know the elevation at the beginning and at the highest point of your hike, the difference between the two is the elevation gain. Some hiking guidebooks list these figures. You can also use a topographic map to find elevations or carry an altimeter. If there are ups and downs on the trail, the cumulative gain can also be important. In addition, the length of the hike is relevant to the difficulty level. A thousand foot gain in a mile is very steep but the same gain over five miles is pretty easy.

As for the term 'through hiker' it refers to someone who's crazy enough (read: Green Tortuga) to want to complete an entire long distance trail in one season. The most common trails you hear about folks through hiking are the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail, both over 2000 miles long. This is versus a section hiker who might complete the trail over many seasons or a day hiker who merely hikes short portions of the trail. I'm sure Ryan will have much more to say on this topic dear to his heart. Funhog

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I'm sure Ryan will have much more to say on this topic dear to his heart.

No, I think you covered it pretty well. =)

We generally spell it "thru-hiker," though. Probably because we're lazy after hiking over 2,000 miles in a season. *nodding*

-- Ryan

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We generally spell it "thru-hiker,"

Just Googled the two spellings. Thru hiker has 239,000 hits and through hiker has 1,140,000. Don't know what that means but I just can't bring myself to misspell it. Funhog

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Just Googled the two spellings. Thru hiker has 239,000 hits and through hiker has 1,140,000. Don't know what that means but I just can't bring myself to misspell it.

Try doing the search with quotes. Without the quotes, Google will return all pages that have the words "through" and "hiker"--not necessarily "through hiker."

When I search for "thru hiker," I get 84,700 hits.
When I search for "through hiker," I end up with 948 hits.

*nodding*

-- Ryan

Thank you all for clearing that up. I've been wanting to ask these two questions for awhile now. I did try to look up the elevation question last night, but I get so bogged down in wrong places. I'm still learning that aspect of the computer.

I will have to read GT's log about that long hike. I can't even imagine. I'd love to do it, but the reality of it, I don't know.

Thanks again,
Janet, Blooming Flowers (wondering what y'all are doing up this late, or is it early?)

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What does through hiking mean?

I can answer that one. On the serious trails such as the Appalachian Trail or the Pacific Crest Trail, the guys who set out in the spring with an 80-pound backpack and plan to hike the entire trail before the winter snow buries them are called through-hikers. The guys who drive out to the nearest place where one of these trails crosses a highway and spend a couple of hours walking along it before returning to the car and going home to their hot showers and warm beds are called day hiker trash.