this is in response to a reply that was in a thread on another board...
I realized it didn't really belong there so i moved my reply to here
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As it is, the only reasom I am logging finds now and even signed up was that I heard new clues pop up if you get to F100! :)

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If so, I may keep it up, if not...I'll disappear after F100 most likely

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I must confess this statement bothered me a little.

me too...

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I think that once some one has been on AQ and seen the heart that some people (most) put into these boxes for others too find; that the least you can do when you find one of the boxes they graciously left for your enjoyment is to, take as sec, log onto AQ and mark it as a find!

agreed. I have people ask me why I plant so many and find so few...
I don't understand the other side...those who find and never plant.
i don't understand how they can claim to know the heart and feelings that go into those boxes and how important they are to us if they never plant. *shrug*
I have often wondered how I could put a small P restriction on a couple of boxes...just cause if folks plant then I can see them being much more careful with boxes when rehiding etc. just honest opinion

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I thrive off of others feedback. I love it!

oh...
absolutely!!
me too!! it is awesome to get those notes, compliments or even criticisms...help me along.

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chadams (a personal opinion of someone who is more of a born planter than finder)

again...I agree.
I thrive on planting and putting something out there that I think folks will find fun
and I think it make me a better re-hider etc when I am finding too.

*APPLAUSE to chadams*

dixie

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agreed. I have people ask me why I plant so many and find so few...
I don't understand the other side...those who find and never plant.
i don't understand how they can claim to know the heart and feelings that go into those boxes and how important they are to us if they never plant. *shrug*
I have often wondered how I could put a small P restriction on a couple of boxes...just cause if folks plant then I can see them being much more careful with boxes when rehiding etc. just honest opinion

I understand this viewpoint, but I can tell you that this isn't true in at least one case. It's taken me a long, long time to finally plant a box--just planted my first two this last week. Part of the reason it has taken me so long is that it's taken me a long time to practice carving enough that I was able to make anything recognizable for a stamp. Believe me, I am extremely aware of the time and effort required in coming up with a box--it is why it has taken me so long to make one of my own. :-) But even though I haven't planted boxes until now, I do my utmost to make sure that when I am finished with a box it is very well rehidden. I've even gone to the trouble to scavange more rocks in some areas if the box was still a little visible. In at least one case, I suspect that the planter had to plant the box when there were more people around than when I found it, and since there was no one around when I was there, I figured that I could at least do my bit to help keep the box intact.

There are a couple of other reasons it has taken me a while to plant boxes of my own. One is that I wanted to be a finder long enough that I would know what kind of things to avoid when planting--knowing what kinds of clues frustrated me so that I would hopefully not frustrate other finders (except for the frustration of figuring out puzzle-type clues), and seeing which boxes were hidden in places that made them more "muggleable," if you know what I mean. (I'm thinking of those boxes which are planted where a lot of trash may have been, indicating that irresponsible people were frequenting the area.)

My remaining reason for not planting is that I wanted to make sure I could find memorable places to plant, and that the boxes I planted were worth the trouble of finding--I didn't want to disappoint. Many of the boxes I've found have been in such lovely places, I wanted to give others the same experience. And as I just moved to Spokane a little over a year ago, I had to learn the place well enough to find places to plant! ;-)

Not disagreeing with your general assumption--you may be right that most people who don't plant don't care for boxes, and I wouldn't have been offended knowing that someone put a P-restriction on their boxes--as a planter, it is entirely up to YOU whom you allow to visit your box. Just wanted to let you know, though, that there may be reasons that people are finders for a long while before becoming planters.

A big thank you to you and your fellow prolific planters--you and your work are highly valued, at least by some of us finders!

Pied Piper

Thats what I love about this hobby...we can make up new words and people know what we are talking about.....

Muggleable...is that in the glossary? :-)

vicki

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agreed. I have people ask me why I plant so many and find so few...
I don't understand the other side...those who find and never plant.
i don't understand how they can claim to know the heart and feelings that go into those boxes and how important they are to us if they never plant. *shrug*
I have often wondered how I could put a small P restriction on a couple of boxes...just cause if folks plant then I can see them being much more careful with boxes when rehiding etc. just honest opinion

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I understand this viewpoint, but I can tell you that this isn't true in at least one case. It's taken me a long, long time to finally plant a box--just planted my first two this last week. Part of the reason it has taken me so long is that it's taken me a long time to practice carving enough that I was able to make anything recognizable for a stamp.

I feel the same way. I have so much respect for the carvers and boxes I find. I recently planted one of my own, but I don't think it's a very good stamp. I just don't carve that well, although I keep trying. And that's part of the fun for me:)

T;)

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Not disagreeing with your general assumption--you may be right that most people who don't plant don't care for boxes, and I wouldn't have been offended knowing that someone put a P-restriction on their boxes--as a planter, it is entirely up to YOU whom you allow to visit your box. Just wanted to let you know, though, that there may be reasons that people are finders for a long while before becoming planters.
A big thank you to you and your fellow prolific planters--you and your work are highly valued, at least by some of us finders!

Thanks for your reply...
I knew and feel certain there are lots of folks out there like you...
those who respect the plants and the time and heart involved but I also feel there are lots who do not take the care you do.

I am sure there are boxers on both ends of the spectrum and just how lots of people say a newbie should find -blank- amount of boxes before ever planting...it could go the other way too. I have seen some recent evidence of boxes being left untidy, unpackage well or unhidden properly when some boxers are done. I have checked on a couple of these and have found that the person I suspect...didn't have any plants.

oh...and for the record...without you finders...us planters would be planting in vain ;)
thanks to you too!!!

dixie

oh...by the way...
those who feel they don't carve very well so shouldn't plant...
oh...HOGWASH ;)
and i mean that in a fun and encouraging way

I am thrilled to find aletterbox with the crudest of carvings.
My first was horrid to me but others didn't mind it...
and now my carvings are much better...
but even if the carving didn't improve I would still feel compelled to plant!!
making the entire package and then working up a story or a clue...then putting it out for someone to enjoy...
that's the "good stuff"

:)

I totally agree!! If I wait till I am an expert carver I will never plant. I only have two out there and they are both pretty elementary. But they will get better. I hope so anyway. They may never, but hopefully I can keep people coming with the fun clues and the thrill of the hunt.

Me 3. I just want to box hunt. The more the better. Keep them coming!

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those who feel they don't carve very well so shouldn't plant...
oh...HOGWASH ;)
and i mean that in a fun and encouraging way

I am thrilled to find aletterbox with the crudest of carvings.
My first was horrid to me but others didn't mind it...

I felt that way about my first plant, but the LB'ers that have found it have been very encouraging. So I have been carving this weekend:)

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making the entire package and then working up a story or a clue...then putting it out for someone to enjoy

I try and make up for weakness in carving by having an interesting story/clue to go with what I hope is a cool place:)

T;)

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Thats what I love about this hobby...we can make up new words and people know what we are talking about.....

Muggleable...is that in the glossary? :-)

I asked myself that very same question even as I was typing. :D

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oh...by the way...
those who feel they don't carve very well so shouldn't plant...
oh...HOGWASH ;)
and i mean that in a fun and encouraging way

I am thrilled to find aletterbox with the crudest of carvings.
My first was horrid to me but others didn't mind it...
and now my carvings are much better...
but even if the carving didn't improve I would still feel compelled to plant!!
making the entire package and then working up a story or a clue...then putting it out for someone to enjoy...
that's the "good stuff"

That's what I kept telling myself, but it took a long time before I listened. Makes me think of the Disney version of Alice in Wonderland. In one song, Alice sings, "I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it. That explains the trouble that I'm always in."

Truly, I've loved every stamp I've ever found, from the very simple to the da Vinci's, but some of the stamps have been such stunners that I just couldn't bear to put mine out there. Now that I've planted a couple of boxes, though, I'm going to just keep going and hope that I get better.

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*APPLAUSE to chadams*

why thank you! *blushing*

In case any one missed my post she is refering to I will break the 11th commandment thou shall not cross post:

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I must confess this statement bothered me a little. I KNOW this is a hobby where it is "each to there own" and you can put in or get out anything you want out of said hobby, but I think IN MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.... That it is Frankly quite rude. I think that once some one has been on AQ and seen the heart that some people (most) put into these boxes for others too find; that the least you can do when you find one of the boxes they graciously left for your enjoyment is to, take as sec, log onto AQ and mark it as a find! Then possibly taking a few extra seconds to leave a few kind words and to let the planter know that the creation is safe and sound. The feeling of logging on to AQ and reading about someones journey to find my box is most of the reason why I love this hobby. I thrive off of others feedback. I love it! Others may disagree but I think it is pretty uncool to not send a thank you to the planter. Some may argue that is what logbooks are for but I think thanks should be left both places. It doesn't take long to log your finds. Seeing your F count go up on AQ may no longer mean anything to you, but seeing some one found your box, that it is safe, and they enjoyed the journey can be priceless to the person who planted the box. Why would you take that away from them?

chadams (a personal opinion of someone who is more of a born planter than finder)

I should have been more specific on one part though, fun hog wrote:

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I'd MUCH rather receive a personal note from a finder than the electronically generated report that a box of mine has been found.

you mean you can send a found notice with out actually telling the owner of the box something wonderful about the box? I didn't know that cause everytime I "find" a box I am sure to leave some sort of a note to the placer. and more that just "great stamp" I always leave something personal about my experience. Once again my own personal opinion is that it is just very uncurteos to not take the few small moments to leave a personal note. and My personal opinion is that it is very rude not too. To me it IS THE VERY LEAST I CAN DO to repay the person for taking the amount of time they did to plant a box for me to find. I know that I am running the risk of being "a pot stirrer" with these opinions but I really can't see how people could argue against my point? Granted I understand that there are newbies that might not understand, but after a certain grace period I fully find a person rude If they can not find the two minutes it takes to let me know their thoughts, good or bad. Otherwise i some times almost feel taken advantage of, especially if this person is a "finder" and doesn't plant boxes for me to find. Maybe I am crazy, Or maybe My mama just raised me right, You ALWAYS say thank you and show your grattitude to some one who has done something nice for you! It is just plain and simple good ole' fashion manners!

chadams (tonights pot stirrer)

sorry (tonight's pot stirrer) for those people on these boards who judge a person on "their" use of grammer on these boards and use it as a measure of intelligence.

chadams (who went to public schools and is TERRIBLE at spelling and grammer)

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Part of the reason it has taken me so long is that it's taken me a long time to practice carving enough that I was able to make anything recognizable for a stamp.

Your carving was just fine. And both of your boxes are very nice . We are looking forward to seeing more of them. I think the most difficult thing would be not knowing the area. I’ve lived since I was 4yeas old I have trouble finding good spots.

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I've even gone to the trouble to scavange more rocks in some areas if the box was still a little visible.

I think that might have been one of our boxes you hid better, if I remember correctly. There were all kinds of people walking by that day and I had it really well hidden but Soargeezer made me move it because he said “People will fall into the river trying to get it.” A minor technicality. So, then I had to stuff it some where quickly because he was ready to go. I guess, I could have gone back later and fixed it but I ask the finder to put more rocks on it.

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and seeing which boxes were hidden in places that made them more "muggleable,

So far, my daughter is the only one of us who has actually had a box muggled she insisted on putting it in tree at eye level. I had one that the bush over it died and some creature drug it off into a field, but I found it. My other daughter had one swept away by water.
We started hiding boxes after we had only been boxing a few weeks, if we had waited until we were good at it, there would be about 20 less boxes in this area :-).
I’ve checked on my boxes and found a lot of them uncovered not as I planted them. But fortunately they were in spots not much traveled or they were under something just not covered, I ‘ve been very lucky.

My pet peeve is, finders who had trouble finding your box because it was well hidden, so they think that they will leave part of the box exposed so the next person can find it easily. They found it didn’t they?

Here are some probably useless observations, that I’ve made in a year and ½ from my mistakes and finding other boxes:

1 You can’t hide things well in crowd, don’t try it at a busy intersection or public fair type thing. If you must hide it there, come early before a lot of people are out.
2 If you are going to hide a box by water, weight the box down somehow, so if the water rises which it will, the box won’t be swept away.
3 If you hide it in a dead tree make sure nothing is living in or it will keep throwing your box out.
4 Don’t hide it under a half dead bush, it will be all dead soon
5 Also if you hide in winter the bush could be impenetrable in the summer or if you hide in spring it could be bald in the winter.
6 If you can see the box, other people can see it too.
7 Most of the boxes I’ve (not found )that I presume were muggled were in high traffic areas and just had rocks over them. If I was hiking along and I saw a weird pyramid of rock next to the trail, I’d want look under it, even before I knew about letter boxing. If it’s high traffic area you need to think of a cleaver type of hide.
8) Also, don’t plant something next to a frequently used exit or entrance to park, a building, ect and then expect the poor finder to keep from being seen. It’s ok to warn them in the clues that it’s busy area and it can be fun, but if there is a steady parade of people coming and the finder is trying to dig under rock pile or some thing you have to figure they maybe observed and not be upset if the box goes missing. ( Yes, they could wait until midnight and crawl to the box camouflage if that’s what you want.)
9 Try to make it look natural.
That’s my 2cents :-) Tuppence FSS

I replied in the Dead Lemurs board so I'm copying it hear to provide another hiders point of view:

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If so, I may keep it up, if not...I'll disappear after F100 most likely

I must confess this statement bothered me a little. I KNOW this is a hobby where it is "each to there own" and you can put in or get out anything you want out of said hobby, but I think IN MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.... That it is Frankly quite rude. I think that once some one has been on AQ and seen the heart that some people (most) put into these boxes for others too find; that the least you can do when you find one of the boxes they graciously left for your enjoyment is to, take as sec, log onto AQ and mark it as a find! Then possibly taking a few extra seconds to leave a few kind words and to let the planter know that the creation is safe and sound. The feeling of logging on to AQ and reading about someones journey to find my box is most of the reason why I love this hobby. I thrive off of others feedback. I love it! Others may disagree but I think it is pretty uncool to not send a thank you to the planter. Some may argue that is what logbooks are for but I think thanks should be left both places. It doesn't take long to log your finds. Seeing your F count go up on AQ may no longer mean anything to you, but seeing some one found your box, that it is safe, and they enjoyed the journey can be priceless to the person who planted the box. Why would you take that away from them?

chadams (a personal opinion of someone who is more of a born planter than finder)

As a hider of 36 letterboxes I feel the same way. I love feedback. I need feedback. When a letterboxer logs a find it's not just about the F-count, it's about acknowledging a hider's efforts. In my case logged finds, emails and messages in my guestbook inspire me. I continue to hide more boxes, to maintain the ones I have, to replace those that go missing and to hide in locations that people like to visit, because of the feedback I get. My experience is that logbook feedback is usually quite minimal - most of the time a LBer leaves a stamp and a trailname.

Lone R

See, I obviously should have talked to you, Tuppence, about planting a long time ago. On the other hand, though, I have yet to find any stamp of yours that wasn't absolutely wonderful. You are one of the planters I was referring to when I said that I had seen some really stunning carvings.

Thank you for providing this list. Information like this is very helpful to keep in mind. Besides, I have to confess to giggling when I read this entry:

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3 If you hide it in a dead tree make sure nothing is living in or it will keep throwing your box out.

I can imagine the frustration of finding that your box keeps ending up out in the open, but I also have this picture in my head of an exasperated squirrel throwing the box out and wondering who the blazes keeps using its home as a storage area!

Still giggling...

Pied Piper

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As a hider of 36 letterboxes I feel the same way. I love feedback. I need feedback. When a letterboxer logs a find it's not just about the F-count, it's about acknowledging a hider's efforts. In my case logged finds, emails and messages in my guestbook inspire me. I continue to hide more boxes, to maintain the ones I have, to replace those that go missing and to hide in locations that people like to visit, because of the feedback I get. My experience is that logbook feedback is usually quite minimal - most of the time a LBer leaves a stamp and a trailname.

Lone R

Good point, especially about the minimal feedback in logbooks. Often when you are out there finding a box you have minimal time with it because there are muggles around, so you have to be rather brief in your stamping in. And with some boxes, the box itself is a popular one so you don't want to take up much room so that others can stamp in, or the logbook is small enough so that you don't feel comfortable being verbose.

All good reasons to leave feedback electronically.

How did I manage to miss reading the beginning of your note? Thank you for the feedback on MY box. I'll keep planting!

As for scrounging for more stones to hide, I think one of the boxes was yours, and you'd indicated in the clues that it would be helpful if finders could help cover it better. I was very glad that I could help--almost made me feel like a planter. :D There have been a couple of other boxes, though, where it wasn't quite hidden well enough, so I tried to rehide better. Usually, I discover that a box needs more cover because I'm looking back at it as I'm leaving, because I'm trying to make sure that I didn't leave any belongings behind. If I catch a glimpse of the box, I go back to fix it.

I've been exasperated at myself sometimes because I occasionally find a box which was perfectly well hidden when I got to it, but somehow it takes me FOREVER to figure out how the rocks were arranged so that it is again well hidden. Sometimes the rehiding of a box itself requires a mastermind! :D

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I have people ask me why I plant so many and find so few...

I have a feeling that it won't be too long and I'll be right with you, Dixie. As my host of postal stamps comes home and the number of boxes within 50 miles of my house dwindles, I will likely be doing more planting than finding! Which is fine by me!!
Stacy

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Once again my own personal opinion is that it is just very uncurteos to not take the few small moments to leave a personal note. and My personal opinion is that it is very rude not too. To me it IS THE VERY LEAST I CAN DO to repay the person for taking the amount of time they did to plant a box for me to find.

I hate to say it but I am guilty of just sending blank find notifications sometimes. :(
usually it was after an event and trying to get aloty of stuff done or when I was behind on duties and hurrying along...
but I also realize I shouldn't make excuses.
I too LOVE hearing...even just a word or three about the hunt...so i am gonna try really hard from now on tomake sure I communicate with the placer. Lord knows I love it when I get the notes...so surely most other planters will too.

thanks again to chadams for being the pot stirrer tonight LOL
just kidding...
you are not stirring...not in my opinion anyway

:)
dixie

Well...sometimes, if I've had a day of several boxes by the same planter, I may leave one or two longer notes on specific boxes, then do 'just finds' on the others. I don't think that's rude. You've made a more personal contact, but being gushing on every box could be seen as overkill and disengenuous (sp?)....at least in my very humble opinion.

Jenni P McD

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Well...sometimes, if I've had a day of several boxes by the same planter, I may leave one or two longer notes on specific boxes, then do 'just finds' on the others. I don't think that's rude. You've made a more personal contact, but being gushing on every box could be seen as overkill and disengenuous (sp?)....at least in my very humble opinion.

point taken! I do agree with that. When it comes to one planter and they are all in the same park or something like that I also will just write one longer note on one box rather than a bunch of smaller ones.
chadams

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I have a feeling that it won't be too long and I'll be right with you, Dixie. As my host of postal stamps comes home and the number of boxes within 50 miles of my house dwindles, I will likely be doing more planting than finding! Which is fine by me!!

oh goodness...it is so flippin addictive!!
have fun!!!

This whole darn thing is so flippin addictive!!! All of it, virtuals, postals, hitchhikers....oh my gosh, stop the ride....but wait...I dont wanna get off!!

We are so thrilled we found it...

If I take the time to send a nice note to the placers, I would really appreciate it if they would respond! Even if it is just to say "thanks for your message". At least that way, I know they actually care. I make it a point to respond to people when they send me messages about my box.

TG

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I hate to say it but I am guilty of just sending blank find notifications sometimes. :(
usually it was after an event and trying to get aloty of stuff done or when I was behind on duties and hurrying along...
but I also realize I shouldn't make excuses.
I too LOVE hearing...even just a word or three about the hunt...so i am gonna try really hard from now on tomake sure I communicate with the placer. Lord knows I love it when I get the notes...so surely most other planters will too.

I am sure everyone forgets sometimes (including myself ) But the fact that you realize you are making excuses and feeling guilty means that you are probably going to be pretty sure you are trying to leave a note when at all possible . Why do you feel guilty? probably cause you know how happy it makes YOU when you get a message! So you want to make sure you are giving that feeling to others by leaving them a note.

Dixie i only wish that everyone can have the same attitude towards this as you do!

So I guess I am not a pot stirrer tonight after all. maybe just a cereal spooner or somthing instead. :-)


chadams

Good point....I havent left a message lately, because it seems I wasnt getting responses back. You never knew if they even got your message.

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If I take the time to send a nice note to the placers, I would really appreciate it if they would respond! Even if it is just to say "thanks for your message". At least that way, I know they actually care. I make it a point to respond to people when they send me messages about my box.

I agree TG I also try to respond to them as well. But I figured adding that into this discussion might be a little much. I was all set to be happy with just having more people writing messages with their finds. People responding to my comments form my finds I would say is probably a 50/50 chance from my experience.
chadams

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who went to public schools and is TERRIBLE at spelling and grammer

You mean grammar? *hehe* Sorry, I couldn't resist.... it was begging for someone to say something.

Although I'm happy to report I do know the correct spelling of grammar, I really am a terrible speller. Dreadful. I always blamed it on my 6th grade teacher never catching me when I cheated on the spelling tests. It's all her fault. =)

But seriously..... Well, yes, I did regularly cheat on my spelling tests in 6th grade and never got caught. I always felt guilty about that later, though, and never cheated on a test after that. Glad that's finally off my chest.

I also have a bad habit when I'm typing to type what I "hear" in my head, not necessarily how words are supposed to be spelled. Can't count the number of times I write "our" when I meant to write "are." I've trained myself to specifically double check when I type either of those words. Then there are certain words that just "flow" out of my fingers because I've typed them so often. The first couple of letters start with "qu" and my fingers want to type out "est" even though I'm trying to write a word like "quit". Muscle memory can be a terrible thing at times.

I also tend to be trigger happy with the space bar. Usually I en dup writin glink this. Which is really bad if I wan tit not to turn into inappropriate words..... Is it a subliminal thing?

I have lots of problems. Counting, I'm happy to say, isn't one of them. Words definitely are, however. *nodding*

-- Ryan

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I may leave one or two longer notes on specific boxes, then do 'just finds' on the others.

IMHO: Logging is better than not logging, whether or not you send a personal message. Sending a personal message is good, but it's also true that if you can't say anything good, it's better to say nothing at all.