I received a report yesterday that one of mine has gone missing. I have not yet had an opportunity to confirm this. If gone it will be my first such loss.

The containing box is worth only a few dollars, that is no big deal.
The stamp can be carved again, annoying but I can deal with it.

However, what really makes me irritated is that I have been deprived of the opportunity to enjoy the entries in the logbook. That is a joy that can not be replaced and one of my principle goals in planting boxes.

I am obsessive about producing my boxes so that they are all really well marked with warnings and instructions for finders who are not letterboxers. The boxes and lids themselves carry notes and markings visible from both the inside and outside. Both the front and back inside cover and flyleaf, of the logbooks provide additional information for potentially uninformed finders, geocachers, noxers, or muglles. Finally copies of the AQ business card are included within each box.

If this box, or others, is lost I feel that it is through a deliberate act of vandalism.

Yes I am upset and I empathize with you in this time of loss.

Larry/1SG

My apologies. That's what I get for walking into the middle of a thread that has insider info...

We are "cacheboxers" as well; my point was only that geocaching does not have a monopoly on lame containers and placements. Though admittedly it has a disproportionate percentage...

Nope. Tongue-in-cheek. Kirbert is one of those rare breed--a letterboxer who also geocaches.

True enough, but I'm also one of those rare breed of geocachers that puts a bit of care and thought into my geocache plants. So, yeah, I actually feel some loss when one goes missing -- although still not as much as when a letterbox goes missing, because there was a hand-carved stamp in that. I'm just saying that I've found some geocaches that I can't imagine why the placer would care if it went missing, because he clearly couldn't have cared less when he planted it!

I've been putting my toe into GC here because there are so few boxes.
more have been lame than not. But the not lames ones were pretty neat locations and hides.

I am obsessive about producing my boxes so that they are all really well marked with warnings and instructions for finders who are not letterboxers. The boxes and lids themselves carry notes and markings visible from both the inside and outside. Both the front and back inside cover and flyleaf, of the logbooks provide additional information for potentially uninformed finders, geocachers, noxers, or muglles. Finally copies of the AQ business card are included within each box.

If someone is going to intentionally vandalize a box if they happen to find it for some unknown reason, all the notes and info in the world are not going to stop them because they are probably idiots or are people who consider boxes to be litter in the woods and don't want them there, or are park officials who don't want the boxes there no matter what they may say inside and out. As for leaving literature about AQ, that just leads to more people knowing about boxing who maybe shouldn't. LOTS of boxers, and I mean :::LOTS::::, leave no info of any kind in their containers for just this reason.

MM

As for leaving literature about AQ, that just leads to more people knowing about boxing who maybe shouldn't. LOTS of boxers, and I mean :::LOTS::::, leave no info of any kind in their containers for just this reason.

I can't help but think of you as "Little Miss Cup Half Empty" I don't mean that in a negative sense (not in this case, at least), but it's so easy to turn that around and say the complete opposite and the statement still be true.

"As for leaving literature about AQ, that just leads to more people knowing about boxing who maybe should. LOTS of boxers, and I mean :::LOTS::::, leave plenty of info their containers for just this reason."

Lots of boxers might not put any information in their containers, but of the boxes I've found, a lot more do. Capitalizing the word LOTS makes it sound more common than it really is.

Does leaving information help? I could site cases both for leaving information in the boxes and not leaving information in. There's one particularly memorable letterbox I remember that was *not* very well hidden at all and nearly a dozen people had written in the logbook that they took the box thinking it was liter only to get to their cars or get home and open it up and find out it wasn't, gushing about what a wonderful thing it was and replacing it back where they found it. If there wasn't any information in it...? It might have ended up in the trash can.

Some rangers who find a box by accident have been known to contact the owner to let them know that there was a problem with the box or that the boxes are prohibited--but were kind enough to inform the owners so they could retrieve the box and replant it somewhere else. Without contact information--the box might never have been recovered.

But then, there was that one ranger in Capitol Reef NP who found one of Amanda's boxes and came back with a major axe to grind, going to far as to call up other national parks where boxes were planted to tattle, keep the box as "evidence" of her misdeeds, and send an official warning to never do that again "or else." In hindsight, she probably wishes that she planted that box a bit more anonymously. ;o)

So those little info sheets are a double-edged sword. Sometimes they work out well. Sometimes they don't. *shrug*

The best policy is just to hide your box so darned well that nobody will ever find it by accident. At that point, it doesn't really matter if there's a note in the box or not. =) If I had to estimate, though, I'd say that better than 90% of the boxes I find have a good shot of being found by accident, though. Whether or not to include information about letterboxing or how much information to include is a personal choice. There's no right or wrong answer on the matter. More of a "is the cup half full or half empty?" kind of decision.

-- Ryan

As for leaving literature about AQ, that just leads to more people knowing about boxing who maybe shouldn't. LOTS of boxers, and I mean :::LOTS::::, leave no info of any kind in their containers for just this reason.

HOW SAD!! I can not question that there may be many boxers who, for whatever personal reason, elect to leave minimal information in their boxes. Fortunately that does not seem to be the prevalent philosophy in areas where I have boxed.

I feel that (with a level playing field) most people given the opportunity to choose between being helpful, honest, and fair - or harmful, deceitful and conniving will opt for helpful. I guess it comes down to how much do you trust your neighbor?

I find letterboxing a great way to spend otherwise fruitless days and therefor I am a disciple who is anxious to share my activity with others at every opportunity. I can not relate to the "Don't let anyone know what you are doing" mentality.

I respect your viewpoint and your advise. However, I will continue to provide such information in my boxes and proselytize the fun of letterboxing at any opportunity. Good grief I have even stopped families with kids while on the trail, given them an AQ card, and suggested that they may might enjoy checking it out.

That is just me and the way that I think. But then again I don't live in New York. So hate my if you will, but I think that more boxers only means more boxes.

1SG/Larry

You guys need to try geocaching. Put some useless junk into a peanut butter jar, toss it into the bushes and hit "mark" on the GPS. If it goes missing, who cares?

and why bother.

Oh how I wish all geocachers placed caches with thought and creativity, but that's just not going to happen. There are a number of poor plants as Kirbert describes but there are fortunately plenty of geocaches that are placed with care and concern for the finder's experience. Caches that bring you to an interesting location (scenic, historic, unique, serene, etc.). Caches that are cleverly disguised and/or cleverly hidden. Caches that bring you to a nice place in your city/town you never knew existed. Caches that are well cared for by the owner - restocked every few months with fresh decent trinkets.

True enough, but I'm also one of those rare breed of geocachers that puts a bit of care and thought into my geocache plants. So, yeah, I actually feel some loss when one goes missing -- although still not as much as when a letterbox goes missing, because there was a hand-carved stamp in that. I'm just saying that I've found some geocaches that I can't imagine why the placer would care if it went missing, because he clearly couldn't have cared less when he planted it!

I should have kept reading. We are thinking along the same lines regarding caches. Yes, there are too many placers that couldn't have cared less when they plant. But you don't know it until you get to the cache - it's such a waste of gas money and time when this happens. Wish there was a way to separate the chaff from the wheat on the geocaching site (besides reading all the logs for 1000s of caches - too time consuming).

I think it's probably people wanting to get their name on a list. New comers just wanting to be included in the game. And,there are people that will plant for the sake of planting to increase their numbers.

Shiloh

Though we're getting OT I would agree that finding a memorable geocache can be a challenge. But you learn to drive by the guard rails and lamp posts and whatnot, you learn what type of hide styles people have, who are the good placers, and who to avoid.

There are also lots of amazing puzzles in our particular area that have made for memorable experiences. We've had to create "cruising sticks" to do board-foot estimates in the field; used a combination of an inclinometer, altimeter, and compass to solve a tough puzzle; and done some great night caches. We've driven to the middle of a frozen lake in January and used an underwater camera and grappling hook to retreive a cache. We've waded through swamps in chest waders. We've climbed to the tops of 30' trees (quite literally!) and crawled in "rabbit holes."

Also, geocaching allows for a creativity of container that is difficult for letterboxes, which must accomodate at least a stamp, to match. How about a "Warning" sign where the "log book" is the back side?

Then again, boxing lets you do things that you cannot do easily with a geocache, such as putting them inside a building. There's more flexibility in placement and obviously more artistry by simple virtue of the stamp creation process.

The point being, both games are really limited only by the creativity of the players. It's incumbent upon the players to take some time to research and find out what you like.

Now, I will say this much for letterboxing--the fact that planters have to go through the trouble of carving a stamp (or at least most do versus purchasing) means that they've already put more thought into a plant than any dead-end-guardrail-cache could ever hope to approximate.

And, our kids know that they will ALWAYS come away with a "souvenir" from a box they find in the form of a stamp!

Each game has its relative merits, and neither has a monopoly on either quality on one hand or carelessness on the other.

Now, I will say this much for letterboxing--the fact that planters have to go through the trouble of carving a stamp (or at least most do versus purchasing) means that they've already put more thought into a plant than any dead-end-guardrail-cache could ever hope to approximate.

Uhhhh, I actually have couple of letterboxes in the ends of guard rails. At least one of them has a Blue Diamond:

http://www.atlasquest.com/showinfo.html?gBoxId=32440

http://www.atlasquest.com/showinfo.html?gBoxId=32440

somebody please tell me where I can find the info I need to change the size and color of text in my clues....I use wiki markup....I've looked, but I just can't seem to locate it. Thanks.

somebody please tell me where I can find the info I need to change the size and color of text in my clues....I use wiki markup...

I don't use wiki markup, so can't help ya there. I can tell you that the headings in that particular set of clues were made by putting < h2 > (without the spaces) before the text and < /h2 > after. AQ chose the color purple automagically.

Uhhhh, I actually have couple of letterboxes in the ends of guard rails.

Well then they're not dead-end-guardrail-CACHES, now are they?

I suppose I could have put "fence rail mag nanos" instead. Though I suppose you'd tell me you have a few nano stamps out there too.

My point being...ah, what's the point. Try to say something postive and.......sigh.....

I don't use wiki markup, so can't help ya there. I can tell you that the headings in that particular set of clues were made by putting < h2 > (without the spaces) before the text and < /h2 > after. AQ chose the color purple automagically.

Thank you, Kirbert......I'll see if it works for me :o)