but just using, say, the already existing graphic element across the top as a promotional tool. No extra space, just more PRODUCTIVE use of the space! Face it, running a site like this is not free, so it might make sense for allowing something like this

I would not like to see the day when a commercial ad comes into the theme banner. (sorry Dixie and Stampeaz) That is one of the reasons I became a premium member. I do not like commercialism in every little corner. It is bad enough that I now have to watch commercials when I PAY to go to a movie theater. I do know where to find any commercial LB needs I have.

~Aurora

such as promoting Stampeaz or Dixiegraphics or Chevy?

Since you mentioned Chevy, I assume you must have seen or heard about the ad they ran last year. I think you should read this thread to see what people were saying about it.

TG

Oh, man...don't get me started on that Chevy ad.

:oX
3H

Oh, man...don't get me started on that Chevy ad.

:oX

I just wanted McBoxer to see what people think when a company takes it upon itself to promote letterboxing. There is no need for further comment on the ad. :)

TG

Since you mentioned Chevy, I assume you must have seen or heard about the ad they ran last year.

Yes, I am VERY familiar with the Chevy campaign. In fact, I spoke with several of the marketing people associated with the campaign about it.

I have to agree, I think it was very poorly implemented. The problem with the Chevy tie-in was that they just didn't do their research. They didn't bother to get involved with the community, to learn the finer points of the hobby, and to ASK QUESTIONS. And the association between letterboxing and the Chevy was weak at best. They missed what I thought was one of the key aspects of letterboxing, and that is the family-friendly angle.

In order for a tie in to really work well, a campaign needs to PROMOTE letterboxing, as opposed to EXPLOITING it, which is the way the Chevy ad came across.

Thanks for the input!
McBoxer

There is no need for further comment on the ad. :)

Which is exactly why I :oX. LOL

;o)
3H

OK fine but I think the point EVERYONE is trying to make is that letterboxing shouldnt be associated with any company for ****ANY**** commercial reason.

letterboxing shouldnt be associated with any company for ANY commercial reason.

As much as I understand and can even appreciate the sentiment, it IS a rather narrow and unrealistic view. Not that letterboxing should be OWNED or controlled by corporate america, but let's face it, money talks, and not all "commercialism" is evil or even necessarily negative. Much good can come of deep pockets, especially if approached judiciously and with the proper respect for the hobby.

McBoxer

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OK fine but I think the point EVERYONE is trying to make is that letterboxing shouldnt be associated with any company for ****ANY**** commercial reason.

Hmm, so letterboxing shouldn't be associated with Atlas Quest?

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As much as I understand and can even appreciate the sentiment, it IS a rather narrow and unrealistic view.

Actually, not so much. Letterboxing is, by nature, a secretive pastime, while advertising has as its basic objective spreading the word as widely as possible. I believe the two may, in fact, be largely incompatible *unless* a means can be established to maintain control over the advertising so that it doesn't damage the nature of the game it's trying to promote.

AG,
You have every right to speak for all of us...since you have common sense and we all know what commercialism does...next thing you know Amanda is being tested for steroids or other "performance enhancing substances" and GT is now a free agent switching over to that darned GPS based hobby...
my 2 cents...
Be Safe...
BR1

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just more PRODUCTIVE use of the space

McBoxer,
We already have productive use of the SPACE...we get out with our kiddo's using our minds, opening up theirs, seeing nature, exercising, having FAMILY TIME, and just being together...that is what letterboxing is about....

Now about all this computer crap...I know nothing...but I will ask my personal friend, computer guru, and WEST COAST DOPPLEGANGER about it...even though he is the most UNPRODUCTIVE person I know...but a whole heck of a lot of FUN and a great night boxer...
Be Safe...BR1

McBoxer,

I have gleaned from your posts and your profile that you are a marketing director for McDonalds Corporation.

McBoxer: The problem with the Chevy tie-in was that they just didn't do their research. They didn't bother to get involved with the community, to learn the finer points of the hobby, and to ASK QUESTIONS. And the association between letterboxing and the Chevy was weak at best. They missed what I thought was one of the key aspects of letterboxing, and that is the family-friendly angle.

Did you join the community for research? If so, stop beating around the bush and state your intent.

my two cents: CORPORATE advertising has no business (or right) to be involved with letterboxing, the charm and quaintness of the hobby would be obliterated. When a community ASKS for advertising, it's promotion. When a corporation solicits a group, it's exploiting. Given the nature of the hobby, I think you will find the community is NOT asking for advertising.

Respectfully,
Beswick

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McBoxer,

I have gleaned from your posts and your profile that you are a marketing director for McDonalds Corporation.

McBoxer: The problem with the Chevy tie-in was that they just didn't do their research. They didn't bother to get involved with the community, to learn the finer points of the hobby, and to ASK QUESTIONS. And the association between letterboxing and the Chevy was weak at best. They missed what I thought was one of the key aspects of letterboxing, and that is the family-friendly angle.

Did you join the community for research? If so, stop beating around the bush and state your intent.

my two cents: CORPORATE advertising has no business (or right) to be involved with letterboxing, the charm and quaintness of the hobby would be obliterated. When a community ASKS for advertising, it's promotion. When a corporation solicits a group, it's exploiting. Given the nature of the hobby, I think you will find the community is NOT asking for advertising.

Respectfully,
Beswick

YEAH...what Beswick said...so stuff that in your pipe and smoke it...
Be Safe...
BR1

If letterboxing ever goes anywhere near commercial status, I guess I'm out. I would probably switch to backpacking and use the long walks to ponder a great hobby I used to have.

The teacher AND mother in me always encourages open discussions, no matter how controversial. It's a great way gain insight for all of us. Even though I would not like to see AQ go commercial, McBoxer has a right to ask for opinions (which he certainly got). How else is he supposed to know? (I know that is a loaded question. Consider it rhetorical.)
% }

Kirbert said:

Actually, not so much. Letterboxing is, by nature, a secretive pastime, while advertising has as its basic objective spreading the word as widely as possible. I believe the two may, in fact, be largely incompatible *unless* a means can be established to maintain control over the advertising so that it doesn't damage the nature of the game it's trying to promote.

Beswick said:

my two cents: CORPORATE advertising has no business (or right) to be involved with letterboxing, the charm and quaintness of the hobby would be obliterated. When a community ASKS for advertising, it's promotion. When a corporation solicits a group, it's exploiting. Given the nature of the hobby, I think you will find the community is NOT asking for advertising.

I'm Not trying to fan flames here, but would it make a difference if the advertisement was for PZ Kut or Speedball, instead of a Chevy Suburban?
S

Not for me! I would pay a little more for a premium membership if that is what it took to be Ad free.

We are constantly bombarded with advertising in every aspect of life. I am tired of it!

Please! Keep Letterboxing Ad Free...

It would be like a nice hike in a remote wilderness only to find a sign on a tree that says "40% off at EMS...This week only!"

Mrs. V

From the consumer's point of view, most advertising produces tension. "Buy THIS!" "I can't." For a variety of reasons, advertising, no matter how catchy the music, and how happy the actors, produces a negative feeling/reaction. Either I don't need the product, or don't like the company or the product, or it's too expensive, or it duplicates something I already have, or whatever ~ it produces tension. That's why I'm not a big TV watcher, and often leave the room during the commercials. My lifestyle and beliefs aren't compatible with pressure to purchase.

When I'm letterboxing, whether online or outdoors, I am doing it FOR FUN ~ to get AWAY from tension.

Selling off some digital real estate to a company whose purpose is to separate me from my money - no thanks.

Maude

Why are you fighting so hard for commercialism?

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...would it make a difference if the advertisement was for PZ Kut or Speedball, instead of a Chevy Suburban?

Only in that I would expect the advertisers for PZ Kut or Speedball to be more accommodating and understanding of the special needs for advertising on a letterboxing site. The advertisers for Chevy are only too likely to arrive with the attitude that it's their money, so whatever they say goes.

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We are constantly bombarded with advertising in every aspect of life. I am tired of it!

Near the end of the movie "Brasil" (excellent flick BTW, although there are two different endings) there's a scene where a guy drives down a highway and the billboards line the highway end-to-end. You cannot leave the pavement without crashing through a billboard. It's basically a tunnel of billboards.

I heard once that somebody was planning on selling advertising space on toilet paper in public bathrooms. Kind of a cute idea, really; you're just sitting there anyway, might as well read something. And if you don't like it, you can wipe with it and flush it.

I personally feel that billboards should be banned. They have been banned in Vermont, it works fine. Advertising on radio and TV is what supports the radio and TV broadcasting. Advertising on a web site is what supports the web site. Advertising on billboards supports nothing but the billboard companies and their ugly products.

Agreed. The thought of commercial letterboxing gives me the creeps. No Thanks.

If letterboxing ever goes anywhere near commercial status, I guess I'm out. I would probably switch to backpacking and use the long walks to ponder a great hobby I used to have.

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It would be like a nice hike in a remote wilderness only to find a sign on a tree that says "40% off at EMS...This week only!"

Hmmm. Any worse than running across litter?

Many years ago while driving the Blue Ridge Parkway, I happened to catch a glimpse of a billboard that was along a highway that paralleled the BRP. Man, that was startling. It was a very sudden realization of just why the BRP is so pretty. Well, that and the fact that trucks aren't allowed on it.

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For a variety of reasons, advertising, no matter how catchy the music, and how happy the actors, produces a negative feeling/reaction.

Gee, I have almost the exact opposite response. Advertisements have almost zero effect on me; I simply couldn't care less what they're trying to sell me, and don't feel coerced or pressured at all. I do find some ads entertaining though -- especially some beer ads, and I don't drink beer. I also find some ads informative, although I'm aware that it's only one side of the issue.

Did anybody see the report on that lawsuit against Airborne the other day? They're having to pay up for false advertising, claiming the product helps prevent catching colds. Reportedly the packages on the shelves today don't have the word "cold" anywhere on the label. It's now sold as a "dietary supplement" with no claimed medicinal or preventative value whatsoever.

Part of the lawsuit involved a claim that some study proved it could prevent colds. When investigated, it turned out this "study" was performed at somebody's house in Florida. They even showed us a picture of the house.

Hmmm. Any worse than running across litter?

Much! I can take the litter with me and dispose of it.

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Hmmm. Any worse than running across litter?

Much! I can take the litter with me and dispose of it.

Take the sign, too! If anyone asks you about it, tell them you found some litter along the trail!

Kirbert said:Actually, not so much. Letterboxing is, by nature, a secretive pastime, while advertising has as its basic objective spreading the word as widely as possible. I believe the two may, in fact, be largely incompatible *unless* a means can be established to maintain control over the advertising so that it doesn't damage the nature of the game it's trying to promote.

Beswick said:my two cents: CORPORATE advertising has no business (or right) to be involved with letterboxing, the charm and quaintness of the hobby would be obliterated. When a community ASKS for advertising, it's promotion. When a corporation solicits a group, it's exploiting. Given the nature of the hobby, I think you will find the community is NOT asking for advertising.

I'm Not trying to fan flames here, but would it make a difference if the advertisement was for PZ Kut or Speedball, instead of a Chevy Suburban?
S

The problem I have with this ad is that Atlas Quest does not belong to Chevy. It belongs to Ryan. Chevy has no right to use Atlas Quest or LBna in an ad unless they have input. I do realize that some would appreciate and enjoy the business that an ad such as this would bring their way. If Ryan is happy with the ad, I'm happy. Also, for it's own good needs to remain a scetive hobby to protect our boxes.

Zinni

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The themes are for fun. I don't think that advertising is fun...

Just face, the themes stink. They are ugly and just plain hurt the eyes.

A promotional theme would be professionally done, look good, and generate extra revenue for the site.

RE:
I personally feel that billboards should be banned. They have been banned in Vermont, it works fine.

When I-49 was built (goes through Shreveport, LA and south) There was much debate as whether to allow billboards. Amazingly, there was a compromise. Bilboards are allowed close to exits. The rest of the hwy is billboard free. I-49 is a scenic joy and no billboards help make it that way.