You could see Ryan mingling with Eidolon and Wassa while Chadams, Mr Yuk, Starsaels, and Amanda from Seattle are standing around talking about beer.

Talking?? More like drinking and trying to talk... ;-)

Starsaels: Always bringing up the rear. Appropriately, his name can be anagramed as "Arses Last".

Somebody's gotta be the caboose! Pull my finger...

Drink beer and fling some discs...

Better than drinking beer, falling down and slipping a disc... ooch!

What happens at an LB event, STAYS at an LB event...

Never in a million years. People can't resist gabbing. Especially when Eidolon's around... and who could keep quiet about wassa's antics?

on location... sort of:
Have it somewhere cheap and easy to fly to, plant a whole bunch of boxes, wear strange outfits, set up tables, camp out, drink beer, and box. — Yuk...

Notice how Mr. Yuk managed to work in "drink beer" as part of the requirement!—Kuku

I wonder how long it would take a group of letterboxers to go through 99 bottles of beer?

Yeah, well we look at you west coasters as a bunch of hippies and punk rockers set to subvert the state with your alternative fuels and soy milk.... reply:// Hey! I resemble that remark! And if weren't for us nuts and fruits, y'all still would be driving boats and using 'regular fuel.' Global warming can't be blamed on us! :)

Even though it was the excessive-consumption Californians with their noxious LA Fumes, I do have to give them credit for the turnaround. But I'll never forgive them for the "California Corvette".

Some sort of "mile high club"... reply://I'm in (Oread)

This just ain't right... you want to join another mile-high club?

...it'd be a better idea for everyone to have stamped off a couple of hundred cards in advance and just hand them out.

I know there are those that frown upon this, but that applies to boxes more than exchanges. I'm all for it. It's like business cards. Could you imagine business people at a trade show having to write out all their contact information every time they need to give it to someone. I'm starting my stamping right now.
BUT: another option is to make a custom inkpad specifically for YOUR stamp. Hmm... maybe not...

I'm just thinking about how hard it was to stamp into all the event stamps at the Stone Mt. Gathering...

That's why I didn't bother. In my opinion, the only Event Stamp that should be coveted is the one carved specifically for the event. The others are just that, Others. But y'all can classify them however you wish.

Has anyone thought about the implications of bringing 200 or more letterboxers to one area? The boxes there would be getting an insane amount of traffic.—MK
replies:// "I would probably pull my boxes."— Mr Yuk
"I will not be upset, and will understand, if locals in what ever location becomes the final site of the event, decide to pull their boxes temporarily."—chadams

It's not necessarily all that bad, if planned correctly. Consider what I did at the LbSe Gathering: I led (contrary to my trail name's anagram) a tour group up the mountain to find the 99 Bottles boxes that were there, along with numerous others. My being there ensured that the boxes were bagged, sealed, and hidden properly. It also helped prevent people from turning over every stone and reaching into every crevice. And I was able to provide lookout services for people who were doing the finding.

I'll suggest setting up a bunch of tour groups, each limited to a dozen or so people. If box security is an issue, yank the clues (not the boxes) several months in advance and include them in a Tour Guide. If finders happen to be visiting prior to the event, treat the clues as WOM.

Maybe there could be mini-meets within the huge meet. Scheduled time that people with common interest.—Mello Bunny

Sorta like 'box dating... or something... ha!

I've also noticed an annoying trend of people visiting boxes (at least, according to online logins) but not stamping into the logbooks. I really don't get that.

Lazy old farts... or ignoranuses (that's how that word should be spelled!!)

Demonstrations and workshops teaching people either how to, or how to improve on things (various methods of logbook binding, gouge carvers, knife carvers, planting boxes, camouflaging techniques, mounting, etc.... —chadams

I'll sign up for the Mounting Techniques workshops and demos! :-D

"Letterboxing Convention", those two words seem like an oxymoron to me.—true indigo

So, then, is a Letterboxing Gathering oxymoronic as well? A Convention is just bigger.

I'm sure any workshops offered at this event will be helpful, I just hope the message isn't conformity or that there is a right or a wrong way to do something.

Letterboxing and Conformity... now there's an oxymoron! Heheeheee...

I worry that if they (vendors, eg Lock-n-Lock, Marvy, Staedtler, Speedball, etc.) sense an opportunity to market to a different, albeit smaller crowd, then this could further the commercialization and growth of this secretive little hobby we all love.

A possibility. But one way to defray the costs of the convention is through vendors coughing up spare change to promote their products.

Teaching people how to respectful and responsible is the key to good letterboxing.

This should be a REQUIRED workshop. With video, like those they show in the Driver's Ed classes. Trashed letterboxes, trampled shrubbery, vicious squirrels, sex on the trail... whoa... better slow down!

As someone who volunteered to be part of the planning committee, I welcome the input of all letterboxers, including those with concerns.

Agreed. With an event this large, there are more pitfalls (and pratfalls!) than one person can imagine. You need to get the view from all angles so that your plans appeal to the greatest number of people. And appease the locals.

And I'm all for having a beer at any event!

Which raises another consideration: make sure you don't plan to have it in a "dry" county!!
Now, who's gonna man the beer booth with me?

Why do I get the feeling that the mini-meet is optional, the beer is all that's actually required? :-)

Because "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."—Ben Franklin

Maybe, just this once, the guidelines could be revised somehow so it's not all about the stamp. Like, you only get to exchange stamps with someone you've actually become acquainted with, had discussions with, communed with. When attending an event with 300 attendees, expect to come away with 25 exchanges.

Now THIS is more like it. You have "20 questions" to ask other boxers before you can get their sig stamp.

*S

Well said Mr. Yuk! Thanks!

Which raises another consideration: make sure you don't plan to have it in a "dry" county!!
Now, who's gonna man the beer booth with me?

OOOO pick me!!! Pick me!!!! I want to drink all day .... I mean help serve beer (and drink all day)

Never got a chance to say this, but we second everything in true indigo's post.

Central PA is our second home for now...but we are planning a move there within the year. We'd hate to see our favorite pasttime impacted by a convention.

Central PA is our second home for now...but we are planning a move there within the year. We'd hate to see our favorite pasttime impacted by a convention.

I do not think Central PA is a good idea.

(And it really can't be SE PA since StarSAELS made it so I can't go back to Lancaster any more.... LOL)

OOOO pick me!!! Pick me!!!! I want to drink all day .... I mean help serve beer (and drink all day)

Ok, so here's a story:

Back in the day when I was in the Army Reserves, we had our anual training one year in Wisconsin. I always went on advanced party because I was one of the few enlisted folk in our unit. (my unit was a combat support hospital, most of the members were commisioned officers in the medical field. I was part of the commo section) Advanced party is when they send a small group of people earlier then everyone else to set up camp.

Our First Sergeant came to us and said: "The post commander is coming for some reason today, I think he wants volunteers for something, look your best."

So the commander comes on to our site, and we're all locked tight and looking good. And he says:

"Men, we need some individuals to work the beer tent at the Def Leppard show that is coming to our base in two days." We all raised our hands, I was one of the ones selected.

Now, I began by operating on the "one for you, one for me" principle, and soon was too drunk and relieved of my post.

In Wisconsin they sell fried cheese curds. Imagine a mozarella stick, but cheddar, infinitely more cheesy, breaded and deep fried, they're deliciouc.

Def Leppard, though they once were cool, was long past their prime at this show. So I (inebriated) started throwing cheese curds at the one armed drummer.

I had additional duty for the rest of camp.

So, I'll volunteer, but beware the consequences!

- Yuk

Great Mr Yuk now I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.... luck for me I stopped off at the restroom before reading this!!!!
By the way just yell for me to duck when you start throwing LnLs at people

So I (inebriated) started throwing cheese curds at the one armed drummer.

I'm just impressed that you threw the curds and not the beer!

I'm just impressed that you threw the curds and not the beer!

Or that you didn't throw-up a combo of both

Wow you people heave been busy since I was last on. There are so many thoughts going through my head at once and I am way too tired to get them out properly. But, I will try.

Mososo Kruppe has asked repeatedly for someone to clarify how we can negate the impact on local boxes and no one can off a way to do this.

First off I have suggested a couple things that I came up with off the top of my head, and I am sure many others will have ideas as well. The biggest way to minimize box impact was the fact that this event is supposed to be about the PEOPLE AND ACTIVITIES!!!!! Eidolon hit the nail right on the head. If you are wanting to take a trip with the intent of searching for as many boxes as you can than this event may not be for you. If you are looking for a large number of stamps in one location head to a gathering at Stone Mountain or Chestnut Ridge Park. It really bothered me that True Indigo replied in not exactly the most polite of ways to my last post, by commenting on only one part of my post. The part about how people could pull there boxes and I would understand. It was like they ignored all of the other points I made and took the one part they could use to further there argument. It would have been really wonderful if they had told me what they thought of everything else instead of completely ignoring it. Up until Eidolon no one commented on how I was trying to get the point across that this is a people event and not a box event. It bothered me the way everyone is freaking out before we have even begun planning! A committee has been assembled that includes a lot of VERY experienced boxers who care very much about preserving boxes. Yes we asked for feed back, tell us your thoughts about it but try to respect what we are trying to do as well. We have a planning committee so that we can plan how to best handle all the problems we will face, INCLUDING all the ones you guys have brought up. Let us work and come up with a game plan. We will most certainly not do anything to put boxes in any more jeopardy then they would be in at any other point in time. I really feel that MK and TI have been a little harsh on us. The thing is we don't have the answers yet but we have a group of fifteen people very dedicated to figuring everything out. Actually we only have 14 now. I forgot a person emailed me that they wanted to withdraw from the committee because they didn't want to deal with all the negativity that has come up over this event happening. That REALLY bothers me! This person seems to be one of the most qualified event planners I could have hoped to have on the Planning committee. They wanted to be a part of something wonderful and instead felt it had become the source of too much negativity. They still love the idea but they didn't want to be around all the drama.

I really am disappointed that some people aren't giving us a chance to come up with answers before saying negative things about the event as a whole. I have repeatedly said that there is a ton of planning to do. Let us do it before you condemn the idea. Not to mention, This is a huge country and the odds of it actually being in your neighborhood are really quite small! So stop worrying about your boxes till you have something to worry about.

I promise all of you I wouldn't do anything unless I felt comfortable with the outcomes. This Convention is a CONVENTION!!!! That is what you are signing up for!!! If that is not your cup of tea then you do not have to come. It is about meeting people and sharing ideas and experiences. Not about getting every box in a 30 mile radius, But then again boxes are there to be found aren't they? That is why we plant, so that people will find them? Or am I missing something?

Bottom line is please let us work things out before tearing the Con to pieces. If you are not happy with the solutions we come up with at that point then please by all means unleash on us with every thing you have. But give us a chance. Good people working together towards a common goal can accomplish anything they set out to do!

Chadams

Chadams,

I still maintain I like the idea. I still maintain I will come. But I really don't think that it is possible to say local letterboxes won't be affected. I would be coming for the communtiy, to hang out with other letterboxes I wouldnt normally get to see. Admittedly, you said this was what the thing would be for, noone is disputing that. But with ANY gathering of people, there will be folks who do their own thing no matter what anyone else tells them to do. I think the concerns that have been stated here PRIOR to the decision of where the event will be held will be ones that are voiced AFTER by the ones who it will actually affect. Getting a jump on the issue would be a good idea. Obviously, it is the one that concerns people the most, so while planning the event, it should be one of the main concerns.

And I don't think, overall, the discussion has been negative at all. I just think a few very experienced boxers have expressed concerns over what would happen to the surrounding area. These are things that SHOULD be brought up while planning the event, not after.

All the posts on here have had good intentions behind them. Even the ones that express a problem wit a certain aspect of the con.

Sincerely
- Yuk

Quote

but we are planning a move there within the year

I hate to tell you but you two are not going anywhere until I can account for 8 more dice rolls.

I hate to tell you but you two are not going anywhere until I can account for 8 more dice rolls.

Sir, between the Crayola Posse and Mososo Kruppe, there will be 47,982 PT's within a 2 hour drive. And that's just between those two teams. How do you think I feel?

(mutterin about having to be FF on all new boxes)

- Yuk

I hate to tell you but you two are not going anywhere until I can account for 8 more dice rolls.

You are most likely the reason they are moving.... always stalking them and trying to claim a free roll off it.

You are most likely the reason they are moving.... always stalking them and trying to claim a free roll off it.

No kidding... if Eidolon is invited to their wedding, does he get two rolls? One at the ceremony and one at the reception? I can just see him standing there in church, dressed to the 9s, holding his logbook, and waiting to get a roll as the happy couple make their way down the aisle.

Quote

47,982 PT's within a 2 hour drive

How about we come out and visit youz now and then?

t (who will have her PTs in GA for those who are aware)

t (who will have her PTs in GA for those who are aware)

So there won't be any need to go boxin' at the PowWow, eh?

Oh, and WHY haven't you signed up for the 99 Bottles PowWow???

How about we come out and visit youz now and then?

That would be awesome! I have lots of LB's around Greensburg, I dare say it's getting a little boxious! If you come and find some boxes, I'll cook up my famous vegan pesto and we can enjoy some local wine.

Especially since I replaced my first box to the OTHER side of the tracks. *smile*

- Yuk

if Eidolon is invited to their wedding, does he get two rolls?One at the ceremony and one at the reception? I can just see him standing there in church, dressed to the 9s, holding his logbook, and waiting to get a roll as the happy couple make their way down the aisle.

Do you really think he'd let them get out of te church before getting his roll or an IOU for one???

Quote

if Eidolon is invited to their wedding, does he get two rolls? One at the ceremony and one at the reception?

Invited?!? LOL

However, I did already ask if they were separate events, just in case I "happen to be in the area"...

Quote

between the Crayola Posse and Mososo Kruppe, there will be 47,982 PT's within a 2 hour drive

Luckily I will have hopefully finished MK before they move and will have good luck stalking CP when they come down here in a couple of weeks to make a big dent in their collection... and I mean stalking in the nicest possible way, of course...

I will ... hopefully ... have good luck stalking CP when they come down here in a couple of weeks...

Good thing McIntosh Reserve is a relatively small park... you just gotta watch out for the "trail patties".

Technically I think we'd count it as one event. Haha.

Becky joked at the last 99 bottles meet that there would be a tiered system of free rolls based on gift value. Just a joke of course!

true indigo is going to regret the mentioning of those PTs now!

And I have a feeling that Eidolon will be able to grab 8 more rolls before we move. Haha.

Quote

true indigo is going to regret the mentioning of those PTs now!

As if they didn't already know. ;)
t

Chadams,

I still maintain I like the idea. I still maintain I will come. But I really don't think that it is possible to say local letterboxes won't be affected. I would be coming for the communtiy, to hang out with other letterboxes I wouldnt normally get to see. Admittedly, you said this was what the thing would be for, noone is disputing that. But with ANY gathering of people, there will be folks who do their own thing no matter what anyone else tells them to do. I think the concerns that have been stated here PRIOR to the decision of where the event will be held will be ones that are voiced AFTER by the ones who it will actually affect. Getting a jump on the issue would be a good idea. Obviously, it is the one that concerns people the most, so while planning the event, it should be one of the main concerns.

And I don't think, overall, the discussion has been negative at all. I just think a few very experienced boxers have expressed concerns over what would happen to the surrounding area. These are things that SHOULD be brought up while planning the event, not after.

All the posts on here have had good intentions behind them. Even the ones that express a problem wit a certain aspect of the con.

Sincerely
- Yuk

Thanks Yuk man. I agree.

No one still has addressed how boxes can be protected other than to physically pull them and the clues. I have said ours will be pulled if it would be in our location. I think it is naive of anyone to think such a con would not be controversial. It is also naive to think people won't box because you tell them not to.

Chadams you say give you a chance and that you are disappointed in the negativity. I am disappointed that you are moving forward with plans. What you have is opposing views, not negativity. Some folks have pointed out valid reasons as why they are against a con. They are not attacking you or anyone else personally, they are disagreeing with the ideas. It is very important to separate a difference in ideas verses a personal attack. I know there are a lot of people who are not voicing an opinion because of the comments that have been made about those of us with opposing viewpoints. TI rarely posts anything on a controversial issue and even says that it is because she thinks her comments don't count. And then when she does post, it is quickly proven that she is right. I appreciate Mr. Yuk and his comments. We may not be on the same page in our thinking (I'm open to being influenced Mr. Yuk), but he is deflating the emotions around the issue while sticking to substance. He is silencing no one.

I'd like to hear what someone can do to protect their boxes without having to take the time to pull them if the con is in their backyard. Telling me that the con will be a focus on the people and vendors is not enough. It doesn't help local boxers preserve the active status of their boxes. No one is concretely addressing this concern even though it is repeated throughout this thread.

Just a couple of thoughts on my part.

First, trying to stop a mega-gathering, convention, or whatever you want to call it, is like trying to stop a flood. You might be able to delay it, but it's only a matter of time before it happens. Regardless of whether or not one thinks it's a good idea, everyone should be able to express their thoughts and concerns--preferably in a civil manner. There may not be a solution to everyone's problems, but there won't be a solution if we don't even consider the concerns.

Second, there was already a "monster" gathering with something like 350 attendees. And, happily, I can tell you that the end of the world did not come. =) I don't know how many people might attend a letterboxing convention, but I have a hard time believing that many people will end up at a single gathering unless it's in New England where letterboxers are as thick as, well, letterboxes. =) Some people will enjoy large gatherings, others will not. Go to what fits your needs best.

Third, location isn't really much of a consideration. It'll only be a matter of time before every part of the country--even every part of the world--is host to some sort of mega gathering. The "not in my backyard" syndrome may delay such an event in some locations, but eventually, it'll happen anyhow.

And finally, the largest letterboxing gathering I've ever been to is the clock change meet on Dartmoor. It was huge, hundreds of letterboxers, with exhibits and sponsors everywhere. And frankly, I didn't much enjoy it. But the main reason I didn't enjoy it was just because I didn't know anyone there and despite all the people, I didn't really feel like I had anyone to talk to.

A large gathering isn't about size, but rather it's a chance to meet those people from all over the country you otherwise may never have a chance to meet. Which, I might add, does not mean you're there to meet everyone, but rather to meet those people you've most wanted to meet for months or years. Every gathering I go to, there's a small handful of people in particular I'm anxious to meet in person. In Buffalo, I was excited to meet Chadams and Trekkie Gal since I've seen them on these message boards so often, they felt like family. I also enjoyed catching up with old friends who I had met before--Sprite and Highlander, Celtic Quinn, Eidolon, and so forth. AND I got to meet up with a handful of new people I really didn't know at all but turned out to be lots of fun.

I'm fortunate enough to be able to travel to more gatherings in far off locations than the average person, but not everyone is. They might be good for one, long-distance road trip every year or two, and that might be their only chance to meet dozens of people they've never met face-to-face. I'd be genuinely shocked if there weren't dozens of smaller 'informal' gatherings around the main gathering for more face time with specific people you'd like to hang out with a bit. Heck, even the relatively small Buffalo gathering had a number of those. Some of us went out together for dinner after the day event. Others of us met up around the campfire for a round of story telling and fun while another group went into the tents to play D&D. There might have even been other informal gatherings that I didn't even know about.

Even if you don't want to attend the "main event," I suspect you'd be sorely disappointed to miss out on the smaller events surrounding it. I think of the main event as a place to make plans and find each other, then peel off for more personal face-to-face time somewhere else in a smaller, more relaxed setting.

In any case, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened. It's already happened in Dartmoor, and it was only a matter of time before the same forces caused it to happen in the United States as well. It can't be stopped, but you can help form it into the best experience possible.

-- Ryan

I'd like to hear what someone can do to protect their boxes without having to take the time to pull them if the con is in their backyard.

One more point about this. I agree, some boxes will likely go missing, but that always happens when people find boxes. The more often a box is found, the more likely it will go missing. But why do you plant boxes if it's not for people to find?

There are no prizes for having the box that lasts the longest.

I'd rather let lots of people find my boxes and have it go missing than nobody finding my boxes and have it last forever.

But those aren't solutions, and you want solutions. =)

There's an old observation that people should never run from a bear because bears can outrun you, and an old joke that you don't have to run faster than a bear--you just have to outrun at least one other person that you're with.

My my first suggestion: Using the same principle, you can protect your existing boxes if you plant a bunch of "disposable" boxes that hang a bit lower on the proverbial tree. Everyone will go out to find them and miss your other ones.

My second suggestion: Change the listing to restrict your boxes to those with P-1000 (a feature that will be in place with the Next Big Update) and nobody will be able to access the clues on AQ, and they won't find the boxes. No need to physically go out and remove the boxes--just hide the clues.

My third suggestion: If a box goes missing, use the opportunity to plan a new and fun box in the same area. How boring would it be if once someone found your box, they never had any reason to go back to the park! Missing boxes are opportunities to add, change, and keep people coming back over and over again.

-- Ryan

It's like Ryan just said... you aren't going to be able to stop it.

And this IS the place for calm, logical discourse about the pros, cons and solutions.

But it seems like all you're doing here is pacing back and forth behind the fence like a junkyard dog, growling, barking and baring your teeth and just waiting for people to invade "your backyard" so you can bite them by yanking your boxes.

All the positive and negative contributions to the discussion (not argument) will be heard, but it's the whiny comments and fist pounding that echo... echo... echo...

SO, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION... When a location has been decided upon, it would be prudent to contact the Planters in the Area to let them know of the decision PRIOR TO POSTING IT ON AQ so that they may take appropriate steps to protect their boxes... or not.

*S

When a location has been decided upon, it would be prudent to contact the Planters in the Area to let them know of the decision PRIOR TO POSTING IT ON AQ so that they may take appropriate steps to protect their boxes... or not.

This is the best solution I've heard, and probably the only one that will fit.

Thanks StarSAELS
- Yuk

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Now, I began by operating on the "one for you, one for me" principle, and soon was too drunk and relieved of my post.

In Wisconsin they sell fried cheese curds. Imagine a mozarella stick, but cheddar, infinitely more cheesy, breaded and deep fried, they're deliciouc.

Def Leppard, though they once were cool, was long past their prime at this show. So I (inebriated) started throwing cheese curds at the one armed drummer.

I gain more and more respect for you every day. :D I have two die-hard Def Leppard friends who would be furious if they ever found out someone did that. I laugh though. :D If they can't put on a good show they should get off the stage and retire. :)

-gollygee