Funny this question should come up. For a long time, I never really cared what people did with attempts, but personally, I wouldn't consider it a real attempt unless it's because you think the box missing. Running out of daylight doesn't mean I attempted a box. With logic like that, I could set out from Seattle this afternoon on foot to look for a box in Connecticut, but darn, I ran out of time. Mark it as an attempt? I don't think so.

So to me, an attempt means I looked for the box and suspect it might be missing. I've never worried too much about how others define their attempts, though, because hey, who cares?

Now that people can see attempts, though, I'm starting to lean towards an attempt meaning you think the box is missing--not that you quit before you had time to do a proper hunt of the box. I'm not entirely convinced a single attempt will discourage people from looking for a box--I probably wouldn't get discouraged unless there were four or five attempts on a box, and even then I'd consider the experience level of the people who tried to find it and the historic attempt vs. find ratio of the box in question. (Actually, I almost never look at the finds and attempts before searching for a box, but if I did....)

But as more people start to rely on it, or even WANT to rely on it, I feel it's better to only list a box as an attempt if you really do think the box is missing and even updated the code on my development machine a few days ago to display that definition on the Record Find/Attempt page.

Consider this as well. If you did not find a box because it got dark or you turned back before finishing the trail, what exactly are you reporting? It's no help to the person who planted the box since it doesn't tell them if the box is there or not. It's no help to people wanting to find the box since it doesn't help anyone narrow down if the box is really there or not. It's no help to you who listed it to mark it as an attempt. (There are no icons or records for most attempted boxes--most people aren't inclined to brag about the number of boxes they couldn't find.)

To make a long story short, I've never taken an official stance about the definition of an attempt before, but for the sake of accurate tracking, I am now. An attempt means you looked for the box and suspect it might be missing. It lets the planter know the box might need to be checked, and it allows other potential finders to know the box might be missing.

-- Ryan

To make a long story short, I've never taken an official stance about the definition of an attempt before, but for the sake of accurate tracking, I am now. An attempt means you looked for the box and suspect it might be missing. It lets the planter know the box might need to be checked, and it allows other potential finders to know the box might be missing.

Can this be added to the glossary?

Mama Cache

Can this be added to the glossary?

It's already been done on my development machine. The next big update, though..... I'm kind of leery about changing the live site until all of the updates are done and in working order. =)

-- Ryan

Team Emerson, I think its really nice that you put a message up to clarify this. With the message load around here, everyone 'loving AQ' in excess as has been said, its easy to forget the information contained in your thoughful message.

Somewhere along the lines, I stopped thinking of attempt as it applies me and started thinking about what kind of info it was sending the planter and future seekers. Now, I "tag" boxes that I want to do and for whatever reason need to come back to, in order to look for the letterbox later. That's easy enough when doing a search for an area. Check the box, use the button at the bottom of the page to denote tagging the box. A sunny yellow dot appears next to the box title, so I can't possibly miss it later.

To make a long story short, I've never taken an official stance about the definition of an attempt before, but for the sake of accurate tracking, I am now. An attempt means you looked for the box and suspect it might be missing. It lets the planter know the box might need to be checked, and it allows other potential finders to know the box might be missing.

I think it is still important to remember that all "attempts" are not equal. I am a newbie and there are those times when I am absolutely sure that the box just must be "missing" (= "attempt"), however, after contacting the placer who just might drop a most welcome extra hint or after my brain spends a few restless nights thinking the clues through I realize that "finder error" is most likely the case. What is the best way to handle this situation? Should I remove the "attempt"?

As stated earlier by several more seasoned boxers, it is still important to check the "finds/attemps" and take into account the experience/field record of the individual finders. There should probably be an "I'm too new to know better" button just for me! Thankfully, I learn new things with each find.

mark4

Thanks for the clarification Ryan. I do think it was needed. I've had some people who thought they were just in the wrong place looking mark my box as attempted. Since my box was a brand new plant, the first thing logged in was "Attempted". Then no one went searching for this letterbox for sometime.
Yachtygirl

Quote

after contacting the placer who just might drop a most welcome extra hint or after my brain spends a few restless nights thinking the clues through I realize that "finder error" is most likely the case. What is the best way to handle this situation? Should I remove the "attempt"?

That is what I do.

Umm... that's not an attempt. You have to be looking IN what you think is the hiding spot and NOT seeing a box. Standing 30 or 40 feet away means you didn't look IN the hiding spot. The box is probably there, safe and sound. It's one thing if you're looking in the wrong spot, but not even looking... hm.

Some letterboxers choose to not walk off trail, and that suits them just fine. But there are boxes—some pretty fine boxes—that require a trek off trail. It should be the species of flora that determines whether or not you take the steps.

ok, as a new kid on the block..................
when it comes to virtuals when i have tried to follow the clues, found what i thought were the answers and the passkeys just don't work....................
i put it down as an attempt.........................
this lable lets me know that i have really tried it at least once and to be more careful in my search the next time.............
of which i went back and found one, and left a note for the author.
right or wrong by the standards the general community wants to use

still learning and want to keep it that way...........

condo

I think that the word "attempted" may be too open-ended.

Ryan, might you consider changing it to something like "did not find."

Just a thought.
Lisa

I agree with you, Team Emerson, as far as your attempt. You opted out of the "find" to save the plants and keep them from being tromped upon ... but you did go out and try to find the boxes and therefore "attempted" to get them.

After looking up the word I found this ...

1. earnest and conscientious activity intended to do or accomplish something; "made an effort to cover all the reading material"; "wished him luck in his endeavor"; "she gave it a good try"
2. try: make an effort or attempt; "He tried to shake off his fears"; "The infant had essayed a few wobbly steps"; "The police attempted to stop the thief"; "He sought to improve himself"; "She always seeks to do good in the world"

This means to me that if you go out there to find them but cannot (for whatever reason) then you have still ATTEMPTED to find the box(es). According to the above ... you INTENDED to accomplish this task.

Maybe this definition is wrong based on what it is used for here ...possibly another word might be used such as "Missing" instead of "Attempted"?? Or threee choices since there are only two at this time?

I am with Team Emerson ... I hope no one will take offense at any attempts in my log book until I get the chance to go out and try again. I had one day where I letterboxed in the pouring rain (stupid on my part I know) ... I couldn't find several of the boxes I went after, marked them as attempted, and then tried again when the weather was clear. I found two of the four that time, marked them as found and still two were truly missing. To me, I went out and attempted to find them. They were there, I was soaked ... won't be doing that again.

I like to know what I attempted to find and had to bail out ... for whatever reason.

Peace ~
Ang

I am a newbie and there are those times when I am absolutely sure that the box just must be "missing" (= "attempt"), however, after contacting the placer who just might drop a most welcome extra hint or after my brain spends a few restless nights thinking the clues through I realize that "finder error" is most likely the case. What is the best way to handle this situation? Should I remove the "attempt"?

I wouldn't worry about removing a genuine attempt for a box that you thought was missing. In a situation like this, you just go out and FIND the box! =) Your attempts will show up, but so will the finds and people will know the box is still there.

Most people are smart enough to recognize that a single attempt listing isn't going to mean a whole lot. Even experienced finders sometimes have trouble finding a box.

I do think it's important to tell others that if you'd like to get these boxes (at least during spring/summer/fall months), then you will need to walk over quite a bit of vegetation to get them.

As a good rule of thumb, you shouldn't have to trample vegetation to get boxes, but as with most rules, there are exceptions. I'm not familiar with the box you refer to so I can't form an opinion on that, but sometimes boxes are planted in the dead of winter when there might not be any vegetation to trample. I'm not very fond of invasive species either and actually like the idea waging war against them. =) And it also depends on the durability of the vegetation. Some species had take a little trampling while others can't.

In most cases, though, people should not be trampling vegetation.

when it comes to virtuals when i have tried to follow the clues, found what i thought were the answers and the passkeys just don't work....................

Virtuals are a whole different beast, but if you think you have the right answer and the passkey doesn't work, mark it as an attempt.

I think that the word "attempted" may be too open-ended.
Ryan, might you consider changing it to something like "did not find."

I'm not sure that really helps at all considering that "did not find" isn't exactly closed ended itself. =) In fact, technically speaking, it's even worse. Every letterbox ever planted that I have not found could count as part of my "did not find" list. =) I don't even have to attempt a find to "not find a box"!

I don't think there's a single word or phrase that would be crystal clear to everyone, which you can blame the English language on with its multiple, various definitions of the same word. Very few words have completely clear definitions if you analyze it close enough. I think creating an official definition for attempt will help enormously, but regardless of the word or phrase used, a definition will still be required.

possibly another word might be used such as "Missing" instead of "Attempted"??

But what if it's not missing? Ultimately, it's up to the owner of the box to decide if the box is missing or not. Missing is no more accurate than attempted, and perhaps less so since many attempted boxes are not missing while all missing boxes will only wind up with attempts.

Not to mention that I think the word 'missing' would likely scare people off from finding the box while 'attempted' suggests that the box could still be there and not to give up hope. =)

-- Ryan

Quote

In most cases, though, people should not be trampling vegetation.

I found a geocache once in which you strolled a boardwalk over the sand toward a beach. There was a sign clearly stipulating that you should remain on the boardwalk in order not to damage the sea oats growing on the sand dunes. You would have to walk about twenty feet past that sign and then about twenty feet off the boardwalk across the sand dunes to get to the cache! I thought this was most offensive.

Now that I think about it, I found another one recently. It was on a trail up a steep hill, and the trail zigzagged back and forth to make the climb. There were signs to please stay on the trail, as going off-trail causes erosion problems. Sure enough, the geocache was about 150 feet off-trail, exactly where erosion problems would result. Placed by a group of scouts, too, IIRC.

Fortunately, on geocaching.com you can post your objections to such hides for everyone to read. There's not much you can do with a letterbox in an objectionable location other than to enter an "attempted" log -- which is misleading at best here.

Maybe there should be a way to post notes about objectionable boxes. Maybe a board? You could just write a note to the owner, but that's not likely to win you any friends.

Quote

To make a long story short, I've never taken an official stance about the definition of an attempt before, but for the sake of accurate tracking, I am now. An attempt means you looked for the box and suspect it might be missing. It lets the planter know the box might need to be checked, and it allows other potential finders to know the box might be missing.

-- Ryan

Thank you for saying this, Ryan. I thought this from the start, but after this thread I was beginning to think otherwise!

Quote

(There are no icons or records for most attempted boxes--most people aren't inclined to brag about the number of boxes they couldn't find.)

::raises hand::
I assume I still have the most attempts logged on AQ so will speak as the most experienced failure. LOL

What I qualify as an 'attempt' can vary. Generally, if I make a legitimate effort to find the box, ie if I follow the clues and walk to where I believe the box should be, it is an attempt. The only time my definition is iffy is when it is a mystery box and I am simply not starting in the correct spot (which has been known to happen) yet still spend 20-30 minutes fussing about TRYING to make the clues fit before admitting I was not right. I do mention to the planter that the attempt in this case is not necessarily a reflection of the actual box status but obviously others never see that. In a nutshell, other than the mystery issue, it is only an attempt if I put my hand where I think the box was hidden. Anything else is a "did not try" and therefore N/A.