If we keep asking for more bells and whistle how will Ryan ever start planning is PCT hike in 2008? That's not too far away, folks.

Actually, I've decided to push back my PCT hike until 2009. I'm not very comfortable leaving AQ unattended for six months while I'm SOOO out of touch with the Internet.

In the meantime, though, I like the idea of thru-hiking the Florida Trail next year. It's only half as long (a little over 1,000 miles), and it cuts through the middle of a very heavily populated Florida so if something goes wrong with AQ, I'll be able to learn about it sooner and get off the trail quicker to fix any issues. Plus be able to get back on the trail much more easily once the problem is taken care of. AND I'd only be hiking for three months instead of six months.

It's kind of like a test run for the longer and more remote PCT.

-- Ryan

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Actually, I've decided to push back my PCT hike until 2009. I'm not very comfortable leaving AQ unattended for six months while I'm SOOO out of touch with the Internet.

What? You won't be carrying a laptop with you? :-)

Seriously, that's too much sacrifice to make for the likes of us. We appreciate it, to be sure, but a PCT hike is a serious lifetime event to postpone just to babysit a bunch of whiners. There's gotta be a way to allow somebody to watch the site while you're away. We can do without the weekly improvements to the site for a few months, all we need is someone to reboot it when it crashes.

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In the meantime, though, I like the idea of thru-hiking the Florida Trail next year. It's only half as long (a little over 1,000 miles), and it cuts through the middle of a very heavily populated Florida so if something goes wrong with AQ, I'll be able to learn about it sooner and get off the trail quicker to fix any issues. Plus be able to get back on the trail much more easily once the problem is taken care of. AND I'd only be hiking for three months instead of six months.

Well, the first problem with that is that the Florida Trail is only a continuous trail in theory last I heard. There are lots of pieces up and running, but there are places where it just runs along a highway right-of-way in order to get somewhere. And there are quite a few places where it's so unused that it's growing over.

On the plus side, though, I have five letterboxes hidden along it! Three of them have blue diamonds!

Of course, I have one box on the PCT, too.

BTW, if I were setting out to hike the Florida Trail, I'd plan to hike it in the late fall or winter. It never gets cold enough here to bother a serious hiker, but the heat and the humidity in the summer is actually unhealthy to be out hiking in.

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I'm not very comfortable leaving AQ unattended for six months while I'm SOOO out of touch with the Internet.

You are too good to us.

AGJ

but a PCT hike is a serious lifetime event to postpone

Hey, I still plan to do the PCT sometime! I think of the Florida Trail as a step in that direction. A test run with less extreme conditions, and if it works out well, then I can do the PCT the next year. (Technically, I could even do it the same year since I expect to finish the FT before hikers even begin the PCT, but that would mean leaving AQ attended for NINE months which I'm just not going to do. Anyhow, I'll probably be happy to get off the trail after three months of hiking.)

We can do without the weekly improvements to the site for a few months, all we need is someone to reboot it when it crashes.

That's what I'm planning on. =) And I hope it won't even need a reboot while I'm hiking around!

There are lots of pieces up and running, but there are places where it just runs along a highway right-of-way in order to get somewhere. And there are quite a few places where it's so unused that it's growing over.

That's the case for all long-distance trails. Even the Appalachian Trail, which was "finished" over 50 years ago, still has pieces of it that runs along a highway right-of-way. When you have a trail that's more than a thousand miles, there are always going to be sections that are grown over and runs alongside roads.

I'm more intimidated by the section of trail I heard requires hiking through waist-deep, alligator-infested swamps with no visible trail. =)

if I were setting out to hike the Florida Trail, I'd plan to hike it in the late fall or winter.

I'm thinking I'll start at Key West on January 1st, then hike to the southern terminus of the trail (at the north end of the Everglades) and follow the FT the rest of the way to the panhandle. Hopefully finishing by the end of the March. Hiking the keys looks like fun, though, even if it's not technically part of the Florida Trail, so I want to add that section on to the hike.

-- Ryan

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I'm thinking I'll start at Key West on January 1st, then hike to the southern terminus of the trail...

You'll be lucky to get out of Key West! The place is a hoot, with chickens running loose everywhere, an annual Ernest Hemingway lookalike contest, and a contagious attitude.

It also has no tides. Key West is on a "nodal" point in the worldwide pattern of lunar tides, with the result that the sea level barely moves there.

Starting January 1 would work, but you can start sooner if you want. Anytime after mid-October would be great.

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In the meantime, though, I like the idea of thru-hiking the Florida Trail next year. It's only half as long (a little over 1,000 miles), and it cuts through the middle of a very heavily populated Florida so if something goes wrong with AQ, I'll be able to learn about it sooner and get off the trail quicker to fix any issues. Plus be able to get back on the trail much more easily once the problem is taken care of. AND I'd only be hiking for three months instead of six months.

Make sure to drop us Central Florida boxers a line when you do! I'm so envious - I'd love to through hike the FT!!! We have quite a few boxes along it, too!

:o)
Three Hearts

Starting January 1 would work, but you can start sooner if you want.

I know, but I like the idea of doing the hike in a single calendar year, and 2008 is the year I'm determined to become a thru-hiker again. =) And wow--what a way to start the year!

-- Ryan

Ryan have you ever thought of hiking the North Country Trail?

chadams

Ryan have you ever thought of hiking the North Country Trail?

Of course. =)

So many trails to choose from, so little time....

-- Ryan

Wow...starting in Key West on January 1st....that means New Years Eve there...how cool is that!

I'm still trying to figure out how he is going to walk across all of that water! We all know he seems super human at times, but still.....

Maybe on the backs of dolphins?

A.

what about the West Coast Trail, on Vancouver Island??
Now that is a beauty.
Many years ago we did it, and the most spectacular treat ever was seeing a
blue whale come out of the water. We were mesmerized! We could not move,
just stood there and gawked. We were on the continental shelf and the tide
was out so it was quite close to shore. The MOST amazing, incredible awesome
thing I have seen before.
Now there was tons of other incredible sites too! A trip worth taking. The South end from Port renfrew is very challenging. If you do it you want to be sure to hike along the shore according to tides where possible, but you must hike calculating the tides. Otherwise you could end of trapped and then washed out to Japan!
http://www.westcoasttrailbc.com
yup, too many trails too little time!

Oh and I would avoid the everglades swamp with crocs although it would make for an interesting page theme for AQ, I can think of the graphics!;)

Ryan--That is awesome about your thru-hike hiking goals! With what all you do for us, I hope you are able to break away and fight your way through the FT!!

I'm just now catching up on this thread and am so jealous! I have had a list of things I have wanted to do before I die---sort of thing and have knocked off most from that list---but hiking the AT is still definitely on there. I always knew it would be tough to do and being away from a computer would be both difficult and a blessing at times---but until now, it never occured to me that basically all letterboxing would be out the window too?! How's THAT work exactly?? When you hear tales of folks trading in two nickles for a dime so that their packs are that much lighter---it would seem plain goofy to carry logbooks and Marvy Markers too--cause ya know the stamps on a major trail like that are bound to be gorgeous!

Trailtracker

it never occured to me that basically all letterboxing would be out the window too?! How's THAT work exactly??

No, there was still some letterboxing I did while on the trail. =) I downsized my logbook to a 3x5 notepad, and carried a few dauber duos so I had a few color choices, and my signature stamp (of course). Then Amanda would hand off whatever clues she could find on the trail as I approached their locations.

I missed a lot of boxes, though, since sometimes I didn't find out about a box until after I passed it or the clues assumed you were hiking south on the AT with clues such as "at the second viewpoint" and by hiking northward, it would be my "second to last viewpoint" which is hard to figure out until after you pass the correct point, and by the time you figure out you've passed the correct point you have NO intention of going back to get it. Then there were some days when the rain just poured buckets and buckets and even though I knew a box was nearby, I told myself it wasn't worth it and just kept on walking.

But I did find and plant some letterboxes along the way. =)

There might be some hikers who switch two nickels for a dime, but all the thru-hikers I met had at least some unnecessary luxuries from home. My little letterboxing kit was one of mine. =)

-- Ryan

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Oh and I would avoid the everglades swamp with crocs although it would make for an interesting page theme for AQ, I can think of the graphics!;)

There are no crocs in the Everglades. There are some pretty vicious mosquitoes, though.

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hiking the AT is still definitely on there. I always knew it would be tough to do and being away from a computer would be both difficult and a blessing at times---but until now, it never occured to me that basically all letterboxing would be out the window too?!

Why? There are letterboxes all over those trails! GT even planted one on the AT that I know of. I've planted five on the Florida Trail, and I'm not a hiker!

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You are too good to us.

AGJ

so Ryan, do we pay you overtime??
You certainly deserve it!

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There are no crocs in the Everglades. There are some pretty vicious mosquitoes, though.

While they aren't exactly common, Florida Bay at the southern end of the Everglades is the primary nesting area for the American crocodile. American alligators, plentiful in Florida, are also members of the crocodilian family. Not only are the mosquitoes vicious, but when I visited the Everglades, a number of the trails were closed during the winter because of these blood suckers. They don't even allow folks to hike them that time of year, they're so thick!

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While they aren't exactly common, Florida Bay at the southern end of the Everglades is the primary nesting area for the American crocodile.

You'll never see one. Heck, if you do see one, consider yourself honored!

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American alligators, plentiful in Florida, are also members of the crocodilian family.

You'll see those all the time. What of it? My wife used to swim with them when she was little!

Might wanna keep an eye on your dog, though.

"I downsized my logbook to a 3x5 notepad, and carried a few dauber duos so I had a few color choices, and my signature stamp (of course)."

Thanks for the specifics and that it can be done, Ryan! I have heard that at the south end of the trail, that there are tons and tons of that luxury-type gear that folks just dump off. I wonder if there are a bunch of Lock-n-locks that were going to be placed?? Sort of like a "thru-hike-hostel" without a main stamp?!

"I missed a lot of boxes, though, since sometimes I didn't find out about a box until after I passed it or the clues assumed you were hiking south on the AT with clues such as "at the second viewpoint" and by hiking northward, it would be my "second to last viewpoint" which is hard to figure out until after you pass the correct point, and by the time you figure out you've passed the correct point you have NO intention of going back to get it. "

I can't help but say that I can't believe that this would happen somewhere like on the AT?! I've definitely seen that with driving directions and other hikes---but that is almost inhumane to have that happen on the AT?! No kidding---you kept on going?!

Great to know it would not be unreasonable to take a little letterboxing stuff along!!! Good deal! :) The AT is officially back on my list! :) Thanks, Ryan!!

"Why? There are letterboxes all over those trails! GT even planted one on the AT that I know of. I've planted five on the Florida Trail, and I'm not a hiker!"

Kirbert---I did know that there were letterboxes on the big trails. In fact, I have some of the clues printed off and ready to hunt---but based on not wanting to take any extra gear on a thru-hike, I was thinking that all letterboxing would probably have to be skipped. I did not know there were enough mosquitos in FL to warrant the closing of the FT at times?! Is that why it is jokingly said that mosquitos are your state bird??? Yikes!

~Trailtracker

I have heard that at the south end of the trail, that there are tons and tons of that luxury-type gear that folks just dump off.

And every word of it is absolutely true. *nodding* It's not that you can't have a any luxury items, but you have to keep it within reason! =) I met people starting on the trail who carried "portable" television sets, full rolls of paper towels, tents that weigh about 10 pounds, and so forth. Luxury items should generally be small and lightweight. Even the boxes I planted were generally microboxes in film cannisters since I didn't want to carry anything larger or heavier. A couple of times I carried something larger, but I made sure I hid them within 24 hours to limit how far I had to carry it. =)

-- Ryan

I met people starting on the trail who carried "portable" television sets, full rolls of paper towels, tents that weigh about 10 pounds, and so forth.

If you could have only heard how loud I gasped?! LOL They can't have any backpacking experience to begin with. Have you ever heard of Grandma Gatewood? She is from Ohio and was not only the first female thru-hiker at the age of 63---but she is also one of the lightest-packing thru-hikers still from what I understand. She cooked zero hot meals, hiked in her skirt, wore out 6 pair of Keds and used a shower curtain for pretty much everything?! The funny part is that she only told her family she was going for a "hike"?! After completing her first thru-hike and appearing on the Tonight Show--she said she decided to go ahead and call home and let all of her kids and grandkids know when Reader's Digest began documenting and reporting on her progress?!

Great 24-hour hiding strategy!!

~Trailtracker

They can't have any backpacking experience to begin with.

They were the most inexperienced backpackers I ever met in my life. Some of them even admitted that they had never spent a night outdoors in the wild until they started the AT. You'd THINK they'd be smart enough to at least try a backpacking trip for a few days before committing to a thru-hike.

They either ditch the weight VERY quickly or drop off the trail completely. Within 100 miles, nobody has heavy packs anymore. But that section up to the first post office is the craziest. *shaking head*

Have you ever heard of Grandma Gatewood?

She's a legend on the trail! =)

-- Ryan

There are no crocs in the Everglades.

Now...Kirbert...I just do NOT believe this one! *shakes head*
Crocs are where ever crocs decide to roam. I can't remember now if it is crocs or gators but they are even known to be in some inland rivers etc. They are not native but still...

Florida Bay at the southern end of the Everglades is the primary nesting area for the American crocodile.

You'll never see one. Heck, if you do see one, consider yourself honored!

you don't have to see it to get eaten by it! ;)

They were the most inexperienced backpackers I ever met in my life. Some of them even admitted that they had never spent a night outdoors in the wild until they started the AT. You'd THINK they'd be smart enough to at least try a backpacking trip for a few days before committing to a thru-hike.

You have got to be FRIGGIN' kiding me?! GOOD-grief?! Did you ask them where they were from??? "cause that village was missing their---well you know....

I guess that's why "A Walk in the Woods" is so hillarious! When Bryson goes to REI or where ever he went to be outfitted and told his son what all he came home with saying, "and blah, blah with rip-stop---whatever THAT is" it just gives major insight to the goofiness of people who try and do things with zero clue. That must be why there are rescue teams!

I live about 35 minutes from Grandma Gatewood's original training grounds at Hocking Hills in southeastern Ohio. She was the one who bought the first buckets of blue paint to blaze the trails for the Buckeye Trails here. It really wasn't all that long ago, really.

Ryan---maybe you can represent letterboxers around the world and become the next Steve Newman?! We can string along letterboxes for you as you make your way from state to state and country to country!! We'll have water and trailmix for you as well! Whatchathink??

~Trailtracker

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I have heard that at the south end of the trail, that there are tons and tons of that luxury-type gear that folks just dump off.

My brother tells me that there are people who start out a day or two later than most everyone else and start out NAKED, not a thing on them. Within a day or two they are fully outfitted, ready to go. Apparently it doesn't take long at all for lots of hikers to realize that their boots just aren't going to work or that they really don't wanna carry something or other for 2000 miles. And a lot of hikers realize they aren't cut out to be hikers, and just drop everything and head for home.

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I did not know there were enough mosquitos in FL to warrant the closing of the FT at times?!

I'm not sure they close the FT. I thought somebody said they close some trails sometimes, but I dunno if that includes the FT. I actually dunno why you'd close the FT for anything short of a hurricane, since presumably serious hikers are prepared for things like mosquitoes. It'd make more sense to close the day-hiker trails where people jump out of the car in their flip-flops and shorts and say "Let's go for a hike!" -- not even carrying any drinking water.

I heard years ago that somebody's car broke down on Alligator Alley, and the guy tried to hike for help and was killed by mosquitoes. If true, I suppose it'd make sense to close trails when it gets really bad. They won't spray out there in the Everglades, that'd be environmentally irresponsible.

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Is that why it is jokingly said that mosquitos are your state bird???

In the past three summers, we have visited Michigan, Maine, and New Hampshire. In all three states, the mosquitoes were much worse then they ever are where I live in N FL. I mean, not just comparable or a little bit worse, but several orders of magnitude worse. Mosquitoes are a relatively minor nuisance where I live, but you don't dare hit the trails in any of those three northern states without a thick coating of bug repellant.

That said, I did some bicycle riding in S FL back in the 80's, and when you get near the Everglades the mosquitoes are pretty bad there, too. We once had a flat tire on a bike in 110 degree heat and ended up fixing the tire in the middle of a sunny parking lot because every time we got close to the grass we got swarmed. You could just brush your foot through the grass and watch a cloud of mosquitoes rise out of it.

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...she is also one of the lightest-packing thru-hikers still from what I understand.

OTOH, my brother did the AT many years ago and just finished the PCT a coupla years back, and his motto is "Go heavy or go home." He got positively sick and tired of other thru-hikers asking to use his stuff because he came prepared and they didn't. Saving weight is obviously important, but when the trail guide says you will need to carry provisions for the next six days hiking because there will be no opportunity to get provisions, that means you load up six days of food and water. It doesn't mean you pack only two days of food and water and plan on collecting rainwater and eating squirrels or begging stuff from other hikers or just cutting back on your eating and drinking or something equally stupid. Going heavy means you don't make very good time, but you do finish.

BTW, the year my brother hiked the PCT several hikers died along the way -- mostly from the cold, there were some unexpected late cold snaps that year -- and my brother was lucky enough to find one of the bodies. Floating face down in a river. See how enjoyable that makes your thoughts on the next coupla days of hiking alone in the wilderness.

The PCT is also a way some Mexicans decide to try to sneak into the US, which is another kettle of worms. The thru-hikers end up knowing some of them quite well and even empathizing with their plight and what they are trying to do to improve their lives and the lives of their families, but they're invariably poorly prepared for a serious hike and start pleading for help. You'd expect them to bail off the hike pretty soon, but apparently they feel they've got to make it a pretty good ways along the trail before getting off to avoid the border patrol.

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There are no crocs in the Everglades.

Now...Kirbert...I just do NOT believe this one! *shakes head*
Crocs are where ever crocs decide to roam. I can't remember now if it is crocs or gators but they are even known to be in some inland rivers etc. They are not native but still...

Here in Florida we have no crocodiles to speak of. We have zillions of alligators, they've been taken off the endangered species list, they are everywhere. I saw a great picture once of an alligator in S FL climbing over a chain link fence. They generally don't get along well with each other which tends to encourage the young whippersnappers to strike out in search of new territory, so they spread out fast.

Alligators and crocodiles look similar, but the differences are significant. Visually, the crocodile has a long pointed snout while an alligator has a rounded front end. Both an alligator and a crocodile have jaws that can close with 2000 pounds of force, but a crocodile's jaws also open with 2000 pounds of force, while you can hold an alligator's mouth shut with two fingers.

The most significant difference, though, is you don't have to worry about alligators. At all. I mean, not even a little bit. If you see a crocodile, though, you might wanna be thinking about heading in the other direction in a hurry.

We had a guy here in Tallahassee take a wrong turn in the dark and ended up driving his pickup truck off the end of a boat dock at a good clip. The trunk managed to get about thirty yards out into a lake before coming to a stop -- submerged up to the windows. The driver panicked and jumped out of the truck as it was sinking and swam to shore. After flagging down a passerby, they returned to the boat dock and looked out at the truck with a flashlight -- and saw about a half dozen pairs of alligator eyes between the boat dock and the truck!

When I worked at P&WA, they put on an air show for the employees about once a year or so. One year the show included a simulated air/sea rescue in one of the man-made lakes right in front of the main building. They first had a parachute team drop down and a couple of them landed right in the lake. Then they had a chopper fly over and rescue them. All the while, the announcer -- who came with the demonstration team, wasn't from around here -- was saying "They tell us there are alligators in this lake, folks!" About ten minutes after the demonstration, while something else was going on, a 13-foot gator calmly floated to the surface only a few yards from where the announcer was standing, and right in the middle of a sentence the guy screamed and nearly passed out. When he regained his composure, the next thing he said was "There really are gators in that lake!" The parachute team later said they knew it all the time, they could see each gator in the lake as they were floating down and just made sure not to land on top of any of them.

As I said before, my wife swam with the gators when she was little. They lived on a small lake, only a few acres, and there were usually two or three gators that inhabited the lake. Her dad used to take her skiing, using the term loosely when the skis are bigger than the kid and the boat only has 5 hp. When she'd fall off, everybody would look around for where the gators were while her dad nonchalantly circled the boat to come pick her up.

She sometimes took baths in the lake, too. Thus develops an appreciation for Ivory soap, because it floats.

If you want something to worry about in Florida, worry about the water moccasins. They are actually worth worrying about. Alligators are not.

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Florida Bay at the southern end of the Everglades is the primary nesting area for the American crocodile.

You'll never see one. Heck, if you do see one, consider yourself honored!

you don't have to see it to get eaten by it! ;)

"Offhand, I'd suggest its diet goes a long way toward explaining the lack of reported sightings."