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Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Nov 24, 2006 5:22pm
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Okay, I have to ask. Who was the unchooler on Dr. Phil today? They were letterboxing! Nothing was said about it, but if you knew what letterboxing was then you picked it out.

Alaska HSM
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52545 by Alaska hsm
Nov 24, 2006 5:28pm
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whoa! i wish i had caught that show today. durn!
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52547 by Nurse Wanderseek
Nov 24, 2006 5:46pm
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If you go to the Dr. Phil website the pictue of the family letterboxing actually cycles through on the main page.

Alaska HSM
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52545 by Alaska hsm
Nov 24, 2006 6:27pm
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It wasn't us-we don't unschool, but do home school-but it made the rounds of an email loop for homeschooling in our area I'm on. I bet I could find out-the unschoolers on the show were on the list.

I heard some very, very negative things about the way the show was edited, presented and the audience was "stacked". It shouldn't surprise me (I don't even watch Dr Phil, but come on) but it did none the less.

Cami
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52576 by stargazermomma
Nov 24, 2006 7:06pm
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I watch him everyday and today was the worst I've ever seen in my life. I'm so upset that we are looked down on for wanting to spend time with our babies. I am under a blanket of concerns from family, friends, church members...etc. I'm so tired of trying to explain myself to everybody who refuses to think any other way but there way. I taught my babies how to walk, talk, use the potty and the list goes on forever. My Daughters are in Brownies, Soccer, Dance, LBing and other things to boot. They are not at all un social. I do not down people who do put there babies in public school, so why do they feel like I want there "perfect" answer to this debate. If it is in your power to be able to do this why not just leave us alone.

Very un happy with Dr. Phil,
Kim
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52596 by purpleintexKim
Nov 24, 2006 7:12pm
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Is there a difference between homeschooling and unschooling? I have never heard of unschooling, is it a slam on homeschoolers? I have a bunch of friends that homeschool and admire them. I personally dont think I could do it, but more power to all that can. As long as the kids are learning and are well adjusted all around then no one should be bothered by it.

I have never seen Dr Phil...almost want to find this episode and see what its all about.

vicki
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52598 by Crazyolis
Nov 24, 2006 7:31pm
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Quote Is there a difference between homeschooling and unschooling? I have never heard of unschooling, is it a slam on homeschoolers?


That's exactly what went through my head when I read that. unschooling? What's that? A typo?! =)

I googled it, though, so now I know everything there is to know about unschooling. *nodding* Okay, not really, but enough to satisfy my curiosity, at least. =)

-- Ryan
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52613 by Green Tortuga
Nov 24, 2006 7:33pm
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So instead of sharing you are telling me I should go google unschooling?

oh please save me the time....i dont like googleing...
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52619 by Crazyolis
Nov 24, 2006 7:37pm
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I just can't watch that show... I don't like him, but then again, he sprang from Oprah and I don't like her either, so it makes sense...but now I have to look this up, too. UGH
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52619 by Crazyolis
Nov 24, 2006 7:40pm
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Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52619 by Crazyolis
Nov 24, 2006 8:06pm
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Quote So instead of sharing you are telling me I should go google unschooling?

oh please save me the time....i dont like googleing...


You can give a fish to a man and he won't be hungry for a day.

You can teach a man to fish and he won't ever go hungry again. ;o)

This is an exercise in "unschooling." ;o)

-- Ryan
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52648 by Green Tortuga
Nov 24, 2006 8:26pm
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But I dont like fish....

Ok...I looked it up....and someone else posted a link....

Either way....unschooling is definately not for me.
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52613 by Green Tortuga
Nov 24, 2006 8:36pm
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Unschoolers basically don't follow a set curriculum in their educational plan for the children--they tend to use everyday life as 'school' and try to incorporate various subjects throughout daily life (for example--cooking might be where you'd introduce math or science concepts but you're not always following a textbook or a typical curriculum). It's an approach which has its merits but sometimes it causes much concern--even among 'curriculum-following' homeschoolers.

As homeschoolers ourselves we follow a classical curriculum (3Rs utilizing the Trivium, Latin & the Fine Arts) but when we travel (depending on the circumstances such as luggage weight requirements, legal restrictions in the distant lands and length of time away from home and the 'homeschool library') we may adapt an unschooling approach during the travels. Sometimes that's the best way to experience new situations as compared to following a Michelin guide book induced checklist to see the sights and going down the list to look for all the 5-stars, then the 4-stars then if you have time to look for the lesser starred items. Sometimes you just don't learn much like that because you may not have any interest in seeing marble sculptures of dead historical figures in Firenze when your life's passion may actually lie in the various nuances of Tuscan inspired foccacia variations that migrated from Napoli up to Livorno.

I've met children who've been unschooled who were excelling academically & extremely well-educated but I've also met some for whom I had great concerns that they weren't at all prepared or heading along any semblance of a trajectory toward achieving a high school level education, much less on the path toward matriculation. It's hit or miss--but it's occasionally that way in public & private schools, too. You just never know. That's why so many regions tend to regulate homeschooling through the school districts with annual testing requirements or portfolio assessments through the school district. It's their attempt to ensure kids are actually heading in the right direction academically--as far as the school district standards are concerned. I'm sure the internet provides years & years of heated debate over the various advantages & disadvantages between the different methods of educating people (especially the homeschooling techniques). I witnessed several of these heated debates in person at homeschooling conventions...

daelphinus
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52661 by daelphinus
Nov 25, 2006 7:14am
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Wow! It's great to see so many other homeschoolers in our midst!
I used to think that people who used the "unschooling" approach were leaving a lot to chance. Till this year. While I still have a curriculum, it spends most of it's time on the shelf. Our academics more closely resemble unschooling this year, but for a different reason. With our oldest in three separate kinds of therapy and a very extensive in home therapy program, we are focusing on fixing some problems and squeezing Math and other stuff in when we can, which isn't often. What has been amazing to me is the progress that all of us have made without the pressure of following a schedule and getting it all done regardless. It's pretty neat the incentive of actually being interested in a subject gives to the learning process!
We have every intention of going back to more structure in a year or so, but for now this seems to be working. Which is pretty incredible coming from a person who was completely against homeschooling for a very long time!
Stacy
BTW-Letterboxing is our P.E. program this year! ;)
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52596 by purpleintexKim
Nov 25, 2006 8:39am
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Homeschooling is all fine and good IF the parents are educated.
What happens to the children who are being taught by a person who doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their"?
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52596 by purpleintexKim
Nov 25, 2006 9:00am
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I think this "dig" was at me. I do home school my babies and also know the difference between there and their. Sometimes in "life" mistakes happen. Unless your Jesus.
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52704 by purpleintexKim
Nov 25, 2006 9:22am
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Quote I think this "dig" was at me. I do home school my babies and also know the difference between there and their.


I think it was a general comment about potential problems with homeschooling, but it always makes me lift an eyebrow when someone jumps to the conclusion that a "dig" was made at them. Feeling particularly defensive for a reason?

Bethany mentioned that most places have school districts test homeschooled children to make sure the kids are getting the education they need and deserve, which sounds someone trying to solve such problems. The fact that they haven't taken your kids away and told you you aren't fit for teaching them probably means.... the "dig" wasn't towards anyone on this board.

-- Ryan
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52706 by Green Tortuga
Nov 25, 2006 9:56am
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I think the "dig" may have been. They replied to her post and in her post she made that same mistake, so yes, I think that "dig" was toward her. Why do we feel we have to defend ourselves. Well, talk a look at the great schol debate. We are always being attacked for wanting to home educate our children. I'd like to know what they did before the little school houses out on the prarie. Hmm Do you think it was possible they were taught at home?

Alaska HOMESCHOOLMOMMY (and proud of it, just not the best typer in the world)
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52702 by inkydinkystamper
Nov 25, 2006 10:38am
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Quote What happens to the children who are being taught by a person who doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their"?


that's funny cause i just made that mistake a few minutes ago.
but assure you...I do know the difference.
i was typing super fast and made the error...
which of course I type online much differently than i write serious stuff ;)

I am seeing kids from public schools writing the word "know" as "no"
and the word "write" as "right"

THAT is bad!!!

dixie
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52708 by Alaska hsm
Nov 25, 2006 10:50am
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whereas I have what I consider to be the "best of both worlds" please note the words "what I consider to be". My dear sweet star writer attends a virtual charter school. it is a public school, run by public funding, she has a teacher available to her by phone and email when she or I can't figure out a particular lesson point. the school ships all her curriculum materials to our home at the beginning of the year, and at the end of the year, I ship the durable goods back. She has to take the same standardized test nonsense that all the other kids in Arizona have to take. when she finishes high school, she will have the same high school diploma everyone else has.

but she completes her lessons in a loving home environment, supported by myself and her grandparents. as long as he logs enough hours and progress in the lessons (I have to put in her attendance every day), nobody at the school cares when the work is done. so on days she has dentist appointment, or, for example, in a week or so when she turns 15...I cleared out most of her classes from her birthday and moved them around the rest of the week...I'm taking her to do something fun and grown up together, and make a special memory on that day. (I'd tell you what, but she reads the boards)

I knew she needed to be out of "public" school, but even though I am well educated, (I spell well, but don't type well) I was not confident I could just get books and teach her well. My issues were in not having money to get textbooks, and not knowing how to make lesson plans.

For us, the virtual school works. But a lot of the "home school" groups in the area won't let you in if your child is in a virtual school. they claim we're not really home schooling if we don't have to plan the curriculum. even if they have purchased the same curriculum from the same company our school buys it from. go figure.

night writer
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52708 by Alaska hsm
Nov 25, 2006 10:53am
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I agree.
I have seen folks whole demeaner change when you say you homeschool.
but my last post about thinking the "dig" was funny was because i had just made the same mistake and I homeschool my daughter...but I also am always..or at least occassionaly making her correct that mistake. I do know the difference...just like I know the difference between unknown and missing (laughin' and foolin') but we all make mistakes.

dixie
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52706 by Green Tortuga
Nov 25, 2006 12:24pm
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Nope not defensive at all. Thank you for asking. If the "dig" was or was not at me that is fine. I take it all in stride. Comes with home schooling your babies. You just take it as it comes. The bottom line is that everyone whoever you might be has a feeling as to how it all should or should not be done. Every parent wants to do the right thing for their own. Nobody is perfect and we will all fall short sometimes. Just look at us now. Talking about this. What we really need to be doing is planting boxes...lol.
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52702 by inkydinkystamper
Nov 25, 2006 2:59pm
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Ah, my fine public edumacation strikes again.

Their are manee homeskoolers who do a grate job! So they're!

Cami
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52755 by stargazermomma
Nov 25, 2006 3:01pm
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hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.........lol.lol.lol.lol......rotflmao.....Could not have said it better!!!!!!!!
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52702 by inkydinkystamper
Nov 25, 2006 3:46pm
Board
Quote Homeschooling is all fine and good IF the parents are educated.
What happens to the children who are being taught by a person who doesn't know the difference between "there" and "their"?


I've wondered about that too. Is there some formal testing of the homeschool teacher to be sure they are capable of providing an education? Are the children tested by a board? How do homeschooled children enter college or university without formal paperwork that verifies that they are educated to a certain level? Are there any famous homeschooled adults out there?

I don't have children of my own so I'm not familiar with the current education system. If they had homeschooling back in the 60s, my dad (grade 4 education) would likely have pulled the girls out of school and had my mother teach us the importance of keeping a clean house and becoming a good wife. How does the homeschooling system prevent parents from doing something like that?
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52763 by Lone R
Nov 25, 2006 4:04pm
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I can't speak for all states, but I do know some of the regulations here in Georgia. If there are some hs-ers on the board from GA, they may be able to provide any details or clear up anything I missed.

I do know that in this state, a homeschooler still has to 'register' with the local school board, and a educational plan/curriculum has to be presented. Attendance records and time spend on coursework must be submitted periodially (there's a schedule, but I"m not sure what it is, exactly). Homeschooled students are required to take the same standardized test other children their age/grade level in the public school take (at a Sylvan learning center, or some other facility that offers diagnositic testing). Our state board of education has a portion of their department that is dedicated to and oversees homeschooling. There's even a portion of their website that's accessible for that purpose.

http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/schools/homeschools.asp

There are regulations regarding who can tutor homeschooled children, should you choose to go that route.

My point is, it's not as simple as a parent waking up one morning and saying, "I think I"ll home school from now on." There are rules/regulations/testing measures to ensure the children are receiving a basic education.

And, for the record, I'm a public school teacher, who sees nothing wrong with homeschooling. It's very good for some children and some families. And, frankly, it's a LOT of work on the parent who is the primary educator, especially if they don't have an education background. I have considered the possibility of homeschooling my own children, but I truly feel, for many reasons, thier interests are best served in a traditional school setting at this time. I do take their holiday breaks and summers, and we have what I call "fun" school. I let the boys determine what they would like to learn about (say, dinosaurs) and I develop appropriate curriculum around that theme.

And, I read where there was the question regarding unschooling. While it's a form of homeschooling, many (actually most) parents do this in one form or another. Ever taken a child (yours or someone else's) to get ice cream, and let them 'pay', and then have them count the change? You've just participated in a math lesson via unschooling. :-)

Jenni P McD
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52763 by Lone R
Nov 25, 2006 4:07pm
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Quote If they had homeschooling back in the 60s, my dad (grade 4 education) would likely have pulled the girls out of school and had my mother teach us the importance of keeping a clean house and becoming a good wife. How does the homeschooling system prevent parents from doing something like that?


It really doesn't. Or at least it varies significantly by state. Here in Texas, there are no specific requirements. Perhaps as a consequence, there's a huge range. I have seen some amazing parents homeschooling their kids, providing educations I am envious of, and I've seen some kids who are dumped in front of the computer in a dull and dissatisfying learning environment that did not prepare them to move to the next level.

I think the most important thing if you are homeschooling your children (and I am not) is to recognize your own limitations and seek to counterbalance them. We're not all sufficiently trained in every subject, and that's a fact. Cooperatives and one-day-a-week-schools are some solutions I've seen that seem to work well (and provide the socialization aspect).

Our own personal choice is public school for our children, because I believe that the ability to successfully interact with a wide range of children from a range of different backgrounds is an important skill. I also like that each year my children (still in elementary school) have a different teacher, with different strengths and different teaching styles, because I believe this gives them a well-rounded education in lots of ways. It's not perfect (but what is), but both of my children have had some of the most amazing and dedicated teachers genuinely and positively affect their lives. I believe these teachers are the norm, not the exception.

However, I never say never about anything. Some day, it might be that homeschooling would be the right decision for us. Because we are secure enough in the choices we've made for our children, I'm comfortable when others choose a different path that's right for them.

I think most homeschoolers are dedicated to teaching their children and work hard to do so. I admit though I'd feel more comfortable if there were some sort of guidelined test that helped catch situations where this wasn't the case.

Dewberry
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52768 by dewberry
Nov 25, 2006 5:00pm
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"Our own personal choice is public school for our children, because I believe that the ability to successfully interact with a wide range of children from a range of different backgrounds is an important skill"

I agree with this, I know someone that just started officially homeschooling her 5yr old. Main reason is that she thinks the school district failed her older stepkids. Long ugly story there, but it had more to do with parental guidance than bad school district. But her 5yr old has a slight speech delay, no one but mom can understand her, she doesnt have any kids her own age to interact with. Only a 2 yr old brother. She does not share well or play well with other kids when she is around others her own age. It happens so rarely that she is around others.

If the kids that are homeschooled are also introduced to other areas where they get the socialization than it shouldnt be a problem. If parents are doing it for the right reasons. I just dont like it when the implication is made that if you dont homeschool your kids you dont love them enough or want them to be with you all the time, or dont provide a loving environment for them.

Even with a teaching background, I dont think I could homeschool my kids. I love the fact that they are learning to handle being away from me and make friends on their own. I think we both need time away from each other as well.

I know a lot of homeschoolers with kids that are doing wonderfully. They are well adjusted, sociable, outgoing, energic, and smart. Probably could teach me a thing or two.

No one should make judgements on those that do or those that dont. Whats right for one family isnt always right for others. As long as everyone is healthy, happy and getting educated that should be enough for all.
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52777 by Crazyolis
Nov 25, 2006 5:21pm
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Quote But her 5yr old has a slight speech delay, no one but mom can understand her, she doesnt have any kids her own age to interact with.


Now, here's an interesting tidbit.

Here in GA, this child would probably qualify for speech therapy. AND, the fact that the child was homeschooled would have no bearing on her receiving services. All the parents would have to do is present her case to Special Ed, have her tested and placed, and once placed and such, bring her to the designated school. The speech therapist in the public elementary school would have to provide speech services. This also applies to children attending private school.


On another note, as part of the public school system, all I can say is there is good and bad, just like in any real life situation. When you put 300 individuals in a room, you're going to have 'issues', regardless of what age they are. Add to the mix parents and their baggage too, state mandates, the pressure to perform on tests, public scrutinty, the very few bad apples that garner the vast majority of the media attention, and we teachers/administrators are doing the best we can to do the job we're set forth to do. That's also true of the homeschooling situation. For every 'well adjusted, sociable, outgoing, energetic, and smart" homeschooled child, I could tell you about the flip side of that. This isn't an attack on homeschoolers at all....just that there are always good and bad examples of any situation.

My personal opinion is just that....personal. Personally, I think there should be some type of minimun testing standard that anyone purporting to educate children should be required to pass. PhD's are necessary (unless you're planning to teach your child rocket science or astrophysics, perhaps), but basic reading, writing and arithmatic skills are, even at the earliest level. A knowledge of child learning development and learning types would be helpful as well. My point and personal opinion is, just because you want to homeschool your children doesn't mean you are qualified to, or should. (That was a general "you", not a specific "you".) It does bother me on many levels to see/hear of parents homeschooling their children, and these parents have taken no steps to educate themselves on how to educate. But, again, that's my PERSONAL opinion.
Re: Dr. Phill
Board: Letterboxing In the News
Reply to: #52781 by Jenni P McD
Nov 25, 2006 5:35pm
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And you know whats funny...the mom doesnt see it as a problem because she can understand the girl. Well of course she can, she is with her 24/7. I asked her if she has had her tested and she said there is time for it later. Said she wasnt overly concerned, as it wasnt an issue since she isnt around others too much. She said they could work on it during "school" I beg to differ, but you cant argue with a parent on how she is raising her child...can you??....I am sure I do things with my kids that she doesnt like.