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Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491200 by Grumpy Grinch
Feb 15, 2010 8:08am
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You may be on the verge of starting a whole new theme in letteboxing,, limericker letterboxers
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491164 by CraigInCT
Feb 15, 2010 8:40am
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most people log there attempts as well as there finds.

"Their," not "there."

Using the right word MATTERS!
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491200 by Grumpy Grinch
Feb 15, 2010 8:44am
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Grumpy you are too funny. Love the poems. thanx.

deniserows
in pentameter
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491213 by wassamatta u
Feb 15, 2010 12:29pm
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I am happy that that was the only thing you disagreed with - Thank you for in essence agreeing with EVERYTHING else I said.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491164 by CraigInCT
Feb 15, 2010 1:10pm
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If I don't see a find or attempt on a LB in the winter I just keep scanning for a box that has one.

So you are only in it for the numbers???
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491281 by Janila
Feb 15, 2010 1:20pm
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So you are only in it for the numbers???

You say that like it's a bad thing. =) It's apparent to me that he's in it for the "find." He doesn't want to spend time looking for boxes that likely are not there.

And for those who are in it for the numbers, so what? Let's not flog anyone for being in it "for the numbers." Some people are in it for the stamps. Some people are in it for the hike. Some people are in it for the thrill of the hunt. Some people are in it for the numbers. Some people are in it to lose weight. Some people are in it to spend more time with their family. And whatever one's reason for being in it, it doesn't really matter. They're here, and Atlas Quest is for everyone. =)

-- Ryan, P237 F1409 X632
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #490952 by Trailhead Tessie
Feb 15, 2010 1:34pm
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That "seasonal" icon is useless. Could we not get a snowflake icon for snow friendly boxes?

You make a good point about that 'seasonal' icon. Seeing as only about 1.5% of the boxes on Atlas Quest use that icon, it's clear that few people are using it. And for those who want to find year-round boxes, the way the search is set up on AQ, you can only search for icons that exist rather than ones that aren't on a box. So it's not even possible to search for those "year-round" boxes. (I alluded to that before, though.)

So I went ahead and changed it into a 'snow friendly' icon. Which is rather a squishy concept to begin with since a box that's perfectly findable with an inch or two of snow on the ground may not be findable with a foot or two of snow on the ground, and some people might consider a cross-country trip using snow shoes a 'snow friendly' box while others may think that is NOT at all 'friendly.' So I'm not at all convinced that the icon will be particularly useful, but have at it. For official definition purposes, I'm saying a box is snow friendly under two conditions: One, any important landmarks in the clue do not become obscured in snow, and two, the box would not require digging through layers of snow to acquire.

For those who don't live in snow-bound states such as Florida, go ahead and keep using it as a 'seasonal' icon. May as well get some use out of the attribute. =) Probably because wherever it's located closes for part of the year, or maybe it's a Christmas themed box that is only available in Christmas, FL, during the month of December. I'm sure you'll find uses for it on occasion. =)

-- Ryan
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491293 by Green Tortuga
Feb 15, 2010 1:46pm
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From someone who lives with five months of winter a year, thank you. This is helpful for us.

It looks like I need to go back and re-attribute my boxes - those seasonal icons have disappeared.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491293 by Green Tortuga
Feb 15, 2010 2:05pm
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I had one of those seasonal letterboxes that lost the old icon. It really doesn't effect my letterbox because I include the "available dates" within the clues and when it's out-of-season, I change the status to "unavailable." I won't be adding the new icon because that may confuse folks who don't read the clues ahead of time.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491164 by CraigInCT
Feb 15, 2010 2:06pm
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I find many LB clues to be lacking accuracy, not to mention proper English (Punctuation MATTERS!).

On GC.com most people log there attempts as well as there finds.

Really, it does? I had no idea. Something about rocks and glass houses comes to mind.

Of course, that is neither here nor there, I always say, "you found the box, right?"

Point being, that is part of the game, it simply adds to the challenge. A prime example of this is MizScarlet. She has some awesome boxes, great clues, wonderful locations, excellent stamps, and she is a master at butchering the English language. I mean, truly, remarkably awful in all aspects of grammar. Yet, her boxes are so very worth it.

I think, from reading your post at least, that deciphering the clues just is not up your alley. So here is my advise to you, quit letterboxing. Really, just stick with geocaching, because, well, that little machine tell you everything you need to know, right? You don't need to decipher anything, to use your mind in any way at all, just plug in the numbers, and BOOM, it gets you to within 50 feet of the cache. Then it is only a matter of traipsing around in a circle, overturning every log and stone until you find it.

Some people just should not letterbox, and I think, maybe, you are one of them.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491303 by Cyclonic
Feb 15, 2010 2:08pm
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The preceding has was a very, very, mean, rude comment. It was meant to be. Please enjoy pushing whatever buttons you feel the need to push.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491289 by Green Tortuga
Feb 15, 2010 2:08pm
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Agrees!

I letterbox for 4 or 5 reasons and yes, one of them is to see my find count increase on here and see new ribbons! It is not my only reason though.

I like to see some of the art.
It gives me a reason to walk.
It gives me something to do.
There is another reason too, but it's a bit sad/pathetic/personal, so I will leave it at that.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491272 by CraigInCT
Feb 15, 2010 2:22pm
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I think there was something more implied in Wassa's message, but I could be reading into things. It is tricky to translate the language of the moose.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491289 by Green Tortuga
Feb 15, 2010 2:27pm
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And whatever one's reason for being in it, it doesn't really matter.

I'm not disagreeing with you here but if someone is complaining that a planter may not write the clues to suit his specific needs, it might be better if we knew what his needs are.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491303 by Cyclonic
Feb 15, 2010 2:30pm
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Aside from the rudeness of your comment which you have already acknowledged ...

Personally, I am more likely to go after boxes that I "know" are there. Or, at least, I would like to have one box on the journey with a good chance of a find. There is always the possibility that it has gone missing since the last finder. Why do I prefer this? Because I want to go with my family, who are noxers. My DH is pretty much willing to wander with me whereever. My Mom, when she is with me, can only walk the shorter distances, but will do it for the exercise and she LOVES to find the stamp. Possibly, more than anyone I know other than small children! (Hopefully, she is not reading this! ;D) My oldest daughter prefers a long long hike with few boxes. My youngest prefers shorter hikes with more boxes. Both like to hike together with me, so we compromise. But, part of that compromise is that Mom (me) will "make sure" there is at least one box along the way. But, hey! If it gets 'em hiking, I am good with "making sure" that happens. Once I have the "at least one," I look for any other boxes along the way for which we can search, whether or not they have been found recently. But, even then, everyone wants to know how long ago the last recorded find was. I am given about 15 minutes for all of us to search if it was a year or more ago. With our heads together, we are pretty good finders. But, those are the "rules" under which I play. And, I love those "rules" because it gets my family out hiking together. ... So, yes, I wish more folks would log their finds, especially on "old" boxes. I LOVE to find old boxes. But, I also know some people play the game differently, and I am ok with that, too. Just as I am ok with the fact that you and Craig play the game differently. As Ryan said, there are many different reasons to letterbox. And, there is room on AQ for all of us ... thankfully!

That's just my 1 1/2 cents ... the long drawn out version, I guess.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491312 by Butterfly Suzy
Feb 15, 2010 4:07pm
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Mom (me) will "make sure" there is at least one box along the way. But, hey! If it gets 'em hiking, I am good with "making sure" that happens.

Well that is next to impossible. You can not guarantee the box is in place 5 minutes after the last finder replaced it.
Even if you were the planter, once you leave the planting location, you will lose your guarantee.

Letterboxes are but temporary side roads of life, and as in life there are no gurantees.

Don
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491346 by Don and Gwen
Feb 15, 2010 4:31pm
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Well that is next to impossible. You can not guarantee the box is in place 5 minutes after the last finder replaced it.

Of course, I know that. I meant more of a ... if a box has not been found for years, and I am going out with my daughters or mom, then I will only look for it (or choose that trail) if there is at least one on the same trail that has been found in the last year. I believe I even said in my post that there are no guarantees that it is still there after the last planter. I also have found it helpful to ask the box owner if she or he has heard of it going missing. Most planters in CT are willing to let me know what they have heard. ... For me, guarantees are not the point. (Which is good, since there are none.) It is about the hike ... and the image ... and the hunt ... and the sheer joy of being outside ... but I also appreciate anything that makes it easier for me to get my family companions to go with me.

I recognize that since I am hiking and boxing in CT, I can be more choosy. I am aware this is not the case in other areas. Folks have shared that with me AND I have found it to be true when I travel away from here.

Right now, it does not matter much either way, for me. I hurt my heel last April-ish. It blew up by July, so I had to lay off the hiking. (According to the doc, severe muscle injuries to the foot just don't heal when you keep walking on them! Go figure, but ... um .. I gotta walk!) ... real drag. But, I think it is finally getting to where I can go hiking. I do miss the waterfalls, and vistas, and ... but, it is not a good idea for ... someone with my depth perception and balance "issues" to go alone on an all day hike. So, I will choose boxes based on at least one being on the trail with a find in the last year.

And, the best part is ... there really is enough room in this hobby and on this website for all of us and our idiosyncrasies! :D
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491350 by Butterfly Suzy
Feb 15, 2010 4:47pm
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if a box has not been found for years, and I am going out with my daughters or mom, then I will only look for it (or choose that trail) if there is at least one on the same trail that has been found in the last year.

And you could very well be missing some of the best finds. The choice is yours, but I have found that some of the very best boxing experiences can be found along those Forgotten Roads that are so rarely traveled.

I know you have your reasons, and honestly, I really could care less what they are, they are yours. The fact remains that not every letterbox is for every letterboxer, a point which I believe eludes many, including the original poster on this subject. An online tally of finds or attempts is foolhardy to use as a guide when choosing letterboxes to search for, as that is not how letterboxing works, and no amount of geocacher complaints are going to change that.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491289 by Green Tortuga
Feb 15, 2010 4:54pm
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So you are only in it for the numbers???

You say that like it's a bad thing.
Some people are in it for the stamps. Some people are in it for the hike. Some people are in it for the thrill of the hunt. Some people are in it for the numbers. Some people are in it to lose weight. Some people are in it to spend more time with their family.

-- Ryan, P237 F1409 X632

Ryan, you're my hero!

~~Doublesaj~~
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491357 by Cyclonic
Feb 15, 2010 4:58pm
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And you could very well be missing some of the best finds. The choice is yours, but I have found that some of the very best boxing experiences can be found along those Forgotten Roads that are so rarely traveled.

Yep, I so agree. The "forgotten roads" are the ones I reserve for my journeys with just my DH or a boxer friend. Or when I plan to plant a box or series. It all just depends. There is always another journey to take. And, I will miss some simply because there are so many journeys to take, whatever filter is used. That is possibly what I like most.

And, I actually don't happen to be a geocacher. I did not enjoy the amount of forest floor or area I had to search even with a good trail gps. But, that too is a "different strokes for different folks" to me.

But, again, just my humble opinion and my 1 1/2 cents.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491164 by CraigInCT
Feb 15, 2010 5:03pm
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(Stepping on Soap Box)
I've always felt that hiders should be checking their boxes every year. Especially if no one has found it in a year. Every Spring would be a great time to check on your boxes. Clean them out. Replace the log book. Let people know its ready to be found. Am I CrAzY?

So, I'm guessing you're keeping a close eye on the ONE letterbox you've planted?

~~Doublesaj~~
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491346 by Don and Gwen
Feb 15, 2010 5:04pm
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Well that is next to impossible. You can not guarantee the box is in place 5 minutes after the last finder replaced it.
Even if you were the planter, once you leave the planting location, you will lose your guarantee.

Letterboxes are but temporary side roads of life, and as in life there are no gurantees.

I think we can all agree that there are no guarantees that a box is there. It's about the likelihood that a box may be there.

If it's been out there for 2 years without a single logged find maybe that's because it's not there. If a letterbox owner wants more visitors to their lonely box, they could drum up business by checking on the box and adding a maintenance log plus public comment to let everyone know that it's alive and well.

If the owner gets email from finders who don't log an online find, they could drum up business by posting a public comment that the box had been visited on that particular day.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491364 by Lone R
Feb 15, 2010 5:29pm
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How do you know if no one has found it if you have not found it. Just because it has not been logged online does not mean it has not been found.

And maybe the planter does not care to drum up business for their lonely box. Maybe they want to leave it there as the jewel for the finder that goes out of their way to find it.

I think yous are putting far too much effort into worrying if the box is there and not just going and finding out for yourselves.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491362 by DoubleSaj and Old Blue
Feb 15, 2010 5:30pm
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So, I'm guessing you're keeping a close eye on the ONE letterbox you've planted?

Maybe I'm misreading, but it sounds like you may be knocking him for having only one hide. If he's maintaining that box on a regular basis and one box is what he feels comfortable handling, then I for one applaud that.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491371 by Cyclonic
Feb 15, 2010 5:58pm
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And maybe the planter does not care to drum up business for their lonely box.

That's fine. But then I don't understand why you and Don care so much about those lonely boxes and want people, who may skip them because there haven't been logs in years, to go out and look for them.

If you own any of those lonely boxes and want people to go out and look for them then I suggest there are at least a couple of ways to let people know the box is being cared for by an active owner that would like people to visit.

Maybe they want to leave it there as the jewel for the finder that goes out of their way to find it.

Fine, then there's no reason to admonish folk who prefer not to look (or postpone looking) for boxes that haven't been found or maintained in years.

I think yous are putting far too much effort into worrying if the box is there and not just going and finding out for yourselves.

The worrying-if-the-box-is-there aspect is going to depend on circumstances:

  • How far away do I have to travel for the box? -- If I have to drive 100 miles I'm going to want to maximize my time and gas money and wear/tear on my car and go for a box that may likely be there, i.e. one that has an active owner and some current finds or the owner can tell me that they checked on it recently and it was there.
  • How much time do I have while on vacation?
  • Who am I boxing with? Are they noxers, only there to keep me company? Are they impatient? Do they need regular finds to keep them interested? Are they only willing to attempt perhaps 5 boxes maximum? Then I'm going to need to choose boxes that have a better chance of being there.
  • Am I in an area with other letterboxes nearby? Then I'll probably go ahead and look for the lonely box too. If it's not there, then I can do my part and post an attempt (and public comment) to let the next boxer (and the letterbox owner) know that I couldn't find it.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491373 by Lone R
Feb 15, 2010 6:18pm
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So, I'm guessing you're keeping a close eye on the ONE letterbox you've planted?

Maybe I'm misreading, but it sounds like you may be knocking him for having only one hide. If he's maintaining that box on a regular basis and one box is what he feels comfortable handling, then I for one applaud that.

The point is, he got on his "soapbox" (his word) expressing his opinion and dissatisfaction on how planters should take care of their 'boxes. If I only had 1 'box planted, it would be an easy job. Many experienced 'boxers have dozens if not hundreds of plants in several states and understand the difficulty of maintaining those 'boxes. We rely on posts from finders and, yes, even 'attempters' to know how our 'boxes are doing.

Finding 'boxes is the fun part of the hobby. Planting 'boxes keeps the hobby alive. IMHO, having planted only one letterbox does not give him enough experience to give advice on the subject.

~~Doublesaj~~
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491364 by Lone R
Feb 15, 2010 8:52pm
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If it's been out there for 2 years without a single logged find maybe that's because it's not there.

It might be just as likely to have been found and not logged or just not found as yet.

If a letterbox owner wants more visitors to their lonely box, they could drum up business by checking on the box and adding a maintenance log plus public comment to let everyone know that it's alive and well.

I suppose if the reason a box is planted is to just generate business then that certainly might be a method of doing so, but not every box is set up for multitudes. If that were the case then most plants would be drivebys as they tend to have more finders than those that require a hike, solving mysteries, decoding clues and other types of letterbox clues.
Having different types of letterboxes/clues can be a neat part of this game and not knowing if letterboxes are there or not can also add to the allure.

Don
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491164 by CraigInCT
Feb 16, 2010 7:18am
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Once a year, once a month, once a week, everyday. It doesn't make any difference - boxes go missing for many reasons. No one can possibly guarantee a box will ever be there. In some cases the planter doesn't live in the area and can't check boxes on a regular basis. Unless someone logs a find or an attempt, he or she won't know whether a box is still in place. Of course, not everyone logs their finds. Some log on AQ, some on LbNA, and some log on both. Looking at attempts and finds won't always help.
There are no guarantees on anything in life. Even if you have a physical checkup once a year you can still get hit by a car when you leave the office.
LE
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491389 by DoubleSaj and Old Blue
Feb 16, 2010 11:45am
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If I only had 1 'box planted, it would be an easy job. Many experienced 'boxers have dozens if not hundreds of plants in several states and understand the difficulty of maintaining those 'boxes. We rely on posts from finders and, yes, even 'attempters' to know how our 'boxes are doing.

I hope that most people agree that it's not OK to plant and abandon. Regular maintenance either physically or virtually is a good thing, no matter how many letterboxes a letterboxer owns.

I agree that finders help with maintenance issues.

Even if you plant and can never get back to the box I think you can still be an active and participating letterbox owner and do "virtual" maintenance:

  • Allow public comments
  • Allow finds/attempts
  • Be available via email/AQ mail
  • Solicit the help of locals (via AQ local forums, or yahoo local forums, etc.), especially those locals that have found your letterbox, to check on the box for you occasionally - I have done this for NY letterboxers that planted in a nearby park in Ontario.
  • Solicit help of locals to do maintenance on the box when someone emails you that there's a problem - cracked container, full logbook, wet contents, etc.
  • If there are a number of attempts in a row, and you know the box is fairly easy to find, change the status to unknown
  • If you get a number of emails that pretty much confirm that the box is missing, change the status to retired so you don't end up wasting finders time, patience, gas money and wear/tear on their car.
Re: Must switch to Geocaching
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Reply to: #491045 by MushrooM
Feb 16, 2010 1:00pm
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Hummm I just hiked a mile in the 12" of snow we had the other day in order to get one box.... I box in every kind of weather - I was exhausted and covered with sweat when I got back to my car so maybe it was not a great idea... I should add snow shoes to my Christmas list! Anyhow when a box is frozen to the ground you can often just remove the lid and leave the box in the ground. I find prying the box up to be both bad for the box and likely to make me go flying back about 10 feet onto my arse.

Hmmmm....sounds like you need one of these.

GJ