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Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197399 by Redefining Normal
Mar 12, 2008 4:21pm
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BUT... that's what cooking —any method— does


I often wonder about the stigma sometimes associated with microwaves. I think it is helpful to understand a little about how a microwave works, and HOW it cooks, so let me put on my Scientist Hat for a moment here...

Microwave comes from the words "micro" and "wave"; "micro" meaning "so small it makes most cooties seem huge" (trying to relate it to letterboxing here), and "wave" meaning "the friendly hand gesture Ryan gives to passing motorists". No, not THAT hand gesture, that would be a "MicroFlip" which in fact is a computer term... but I digress.

So, you put your food in the MicroWave, and what happens is these really small things go up to your food, and get all friendly with it. It's like what happens at a North Carolina gathering when somebody drives up - all the letterboxers crowd around real close, and they all start waving for all they're worth (and we won't get into exactly how MUCH an NC letterboxer is worth - I would have to also put on my Economist Hat for that, and my head isn't THAT big!). When people crowded together all start waving at once, their hands start banging and crashing against each other causing friction. This friction in turn causes heat, and the heat is what gets the letterboxers all sweaty and racing towards the cooler for a cold one.

This is not to imply that your food will go off looking for beer. Although in most cases that might actually improve things. But what DOES happen is pretty much the same - the microwaves go running up to the food, the food gets all excited to see it, and the food molecules go waving around causing friction and heating up. Bingo - hot food.

For more information on microwaves, you can look here. Or, alternatively, you can offer me a beer, and I would be MORE than happy to pontificate on pretty much any subject you wish. Including the worth of North Carolina boxers.

-wassamatta_u
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197510 by wassamatta u
Mar 12, 2008 4:28pm
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Quote Or, alternatively, you can offer me a beer, and I would be MORE than happy to pontificate on pretty much any subject you wish. Including the worth of North Carolina boxers.


In light of some of the recent threads, wassa, perhaps you can create a new board (different from Dead Lemurs) entitled "in my humble and most accurate opinion..." Some of us have a hard time learning when to stop a discussion and for those discussions that aren't quite ready for dead lemurs. And then there are the threads that morph multiple times.

This Bud's for Ü,
~speedsquare
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197504 by Kirbert
Mar 12, 2008 5:23pm
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Being an Atkins advocate, I can believe that! They put sugar in everything in this country! And both the medical community and the FDA continue to promote a low-nutrient, high-carbohydrate diet, and the public continues to buy it despite the obvious fact that health continues to deteriorate.


Bingo. I think you'd enjoy perusing the Mercola site & the Weston Price site, as well. Even though I agree with the basic concepts, I think Atkins as a dietary choice is a bit extreme (there's nothing wrong with fruits and sweet veggies as part of our diets). But we really aren't meant to eat all that grain, sugar & chemicals! It's no wonder our health is so bad. Sad, really.

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197519 by speedsquare
Mar 12, 2008 5:24pm
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Some of us have a hard time learning when to stop a discussion and for those discussions that aren't quite ready for dead lemurs. And then there are the threads that morph multiple times.


Ehhhh... I wouldn't say this discussion is at its end. It's actually quite lively and educational. I don't want to stop! ;-P And any interjection by wassamatta_who is really just comic relief and shouldn't really be counted in the thread's message count... if anyone's actually going and counting...

And as for the threads that morph, there's no way to *snip* a thread and start a new one from the *snipped* end. Maybe a revelation-on-the-trail will bring about a way to do that...?

But I digress. I thought anodized aluminum was rendered non-reactive...?

For the record... I thawed some frozen spinach in the microwave a little while ago. And melted butter.

And with all this talk about stuff that's in food naturally and what appears when it's cooked... I can't believe nobody's mentioned the hot topic in the news (before Spitzer's hooker story, anyway): all the crap in the water. WTF are people doing flushing drugs and whatnot down the toilet?

Know what's (not) funny? For YEARS I've been blaming ALL KINDS of problems on the drinking water. You hear about crazy stuff on the news... I'm likely to say, "It's gotta be something in the water." Damn. Turns out I was right all along!

One more thing (in keeping with what originally started this never-ending thread):

I can't believe that all the runoff from the parking lots, streets, roads and highways isn't showing up in the drinking water.

*S
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197508 by Kirbert
Mar 12, 2008 5:28pm
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Ye gads! There's aluminum in baking soda?


Baking powder. Sorry, I stand corrected. Sodium aluminum sulfate.

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197558 by BrewHiker
Mar 12, 2008 6:19pm
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I wasn't pointing to this thread or any one in particular. I was trying to make a light-hearted reply to wassa's pontifical post. After all, he said BEER.

My 2 cents on the posts running ... Years ago, when folks started microwaving (and burning) popcorn at work, I commented that I thought the fumes were probably bad for us. I had breathing difficulties at times. And what did we hear a year or two ago? Lung diseases? On a more personal note, our family had one of the first Litton microwaves in 1973 or 1974 I think. It sat on a cabinet in the kitchen by the table. Guess who sat in front of it and fetched cooked foods from it for the entire family? I am concerned that we'll make a terrible discovery one about that.

I wouldn't play in creeks near farm fields anymore either.
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197558 by BrewHiker
Mar 12, 2008 6:39pm
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Quote I'm likely to say, "It's gotta be something in the water." Damn. Turns out I was right all along!


A couple of decades ago, the public finally started coming to grips with something even the ancient Romans knew: lead in your drinking water isn't good. The word "plumbing" comes from the Latin for lead, reflecting the fact that lots of water piping is put together with lead solder.

Well, the first thing they did was ban lead solder. Then we went for a few years with water testing still showing levels of lead and people blaming it on someone still using lead solder. Then finally somebody figured out that copper pipe itself contains lead.

So we went for a while longer blaming the trace amounts of lead found in drinking water on the copper pipes. But even when the entire plumbing system is made of plastic, we were still getting positive amounts of lead in the water!

Come to find out that there is lead occurring naturally in the aquafer throughout the SE US. Now, considering what effect lead has on the human organism -- tends to make the brains work poorly -- that explains a lot, doesn't it?
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197557 by Three Hearts
Mar 12, 2008 6:43pm
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Quote I think you'd enjoy perusing the Mercola site & the Weston Price site


If you do that it would only be fair to read these too:

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/mercola.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197605 by Kirbert
Mar 12, 2008 7:01pm
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Come to find out that there is lead occurring naturally in the aquafer throughout the SE US. Now, considering what effect lead has on the human organism -- tends to make the brains work poorly -- that explains a lot, doesn't it?


Uhh... what...?
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197607 by Pungent Bob
Mar 12, 2008 7:12pm
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ThreeHearts suggested: I think you'd enjoy perusing the Mercola site & the Weston Price site
To which Pungent Bob retorted: If you do that it would only be fair to read these too: (lists two pages on www.quackwatch.org)


My, my, my... who'd a-thunk it?

It's like the saying goes: the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

*S
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197363 by Kirbert
Mar 12, 2008 7:19pm
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4) Rolaids. It is my suspicion that Rolaids may actually account for most of the cases of Alzheimer's today.


Uh-oh. I just crunched two tablets. Wait... let me see the ingredients...

Active Ingredients:
- calcium carbonate
- magnesium hydroxide
- simethicone

Inactive Ingredients:
- corn starch, dextrose, FD&C Blue #1, FD&C Red #3, flavoring, magnesium stearate, polyethlyene glycol, pregelatinized starch and sucrose.

I don't see aluminum... is there something else you suspect is paving the way for Alzheimers?

*S
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197607 by Pungent Bob
Mar 12, 2008 7:49pm
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If you do that it would only be fair to read these too:

http://www.quackwatch.org/


I'm guessing that no one has yet informed you of "Dr." Barrett's idiocy...

http://www.quackpotwatch.org/quackpots/quackpots/barrett.htm

Thanks for the links, though. I got a good chuckle out of the Mercola one. :o)

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197639 by BrewHiker
Mar 12, 2008 7:57pm
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Uh-oh. I just crunched two tablets. Wait... let me see the ingredients...


Aluminum hydroxide is an antacid ingredient. I thought Rolaids had it, apparently not. It's still used in some. I found it listed with Maalox & Mylanta when I googled it. I remember seeing it on a generic brand of tablet style antacid at a friend's house recently.

Anyway, so the brand was wrong... LOL! :o)

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197666 by Three Hearts
Mar 12, 2008 8:07pm
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Quote I'm guessing that no one has yet informed you of "Dr." Barrett's idiocy...


I'm not claiming to know who or what is right, but I don't put much trust in any medical website that aggressively tries to sell anything and makes you sign up for newletters to read some of its "articles."
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197278 by Redefining Normal
Mar 12, 2008 8:18pm
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In fact, the seeds with the highest exposure didn't even germinate


well...i think the whole idea of cooking food is to make sure it is dead first.... :)
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197682 by scraphappy
Mar 12, 2008 8:23pm
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well...i think the whole idea of cooking food is to make sure it is dead first.... :)


Or at least render it that way...
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197367 by Kirbert
Mar 12, 2008 8:33pm
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Quote You expect seeds to survive being cooked?


Some seeds (not radish seeds) do need to go through a fire to germinate. Apparently they need to get to ~80-120C per the article below.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2120/is_n7_v79/ai_21231379
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197639 by BrewHiker
Mar 12, 2008 11:00pm
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Quote Uh-oh. I just crunched two tablets. Wait... let me see the ingredients...

Active Ingredients:
- calcium carbonate
- magnesium hydroxide
- simethicone


That's the new Rolaids. That's part of what makes me wonder if the old Rolaids, which contained primarily aluminum, wasn't the major cause and they're quietly hoping that all the Alzheimer's patients die of old age before anyone puts two and two together and files the class-action lawsuit to end all class-action lawsuits. Why else would they have changed the formulation?

They did actually announce it, IIRC. First Tums came out with theirs, basically chalk, and claiming to be aluminum-free. Then Rolaids announced its new formulation, also chalk, also aluminum-free. The question is, can you still find the stuff with the aluminum in it?
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197605 by Kirbert
Mar 13, 2008 5:19am
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Come to find out that there is lead occurring naturally in the aquafer throughout the SE US. Now, considering what effect lead has on the human organism -- tends to make the brains work poorly -- that explains a lot, doesn't it?

It wouldn't have anything to do with the large number of older folks emigrating to the SE region in their final years?
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197510 by wassamatta u
Mar 13, 2008 7:51am
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Quote alternatively, you can offer me a beer


That was priceless. Thank you!

Florida Sunsets
-who thinks beer and wine are much healthier that any kind of soda...cheers!
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197558 by BrewHiker
Mar 13, 2008 8:13am
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Quote It's actually quite lively and educational.


I have to agree. This has been a great discussion. *S and Kirbert definitely challenge ones ability to argue...which is a good thing and allows for growth. And in the end we all stay friends...which is a good thing because I think we'll need a tour guide again in September. I promise to feed you this time, lol!

Quote all the crap in the water


All our news stationed mentioned was that we weren't included in the study.

Florida Sunsets
-who had a much better post prepared but it was lost in cyberspace, oh well.
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197694 by Pungent Bob
Mar 13, 2008 8:28am
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Quote Some seeds (not radish seeds) do need to go through a fire to germinate. Apparently they need to get to ~80-120C per the article below.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2120/is_n7_v79/ai_21231379


Thank you! That was very cool! I am always amazed at nature's perseverence.

Florida Sunsets
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197839 by Redefining Normal
Mar 13, 2008 8:41am
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Quote Florida Sunsets
-who thinks beer and wine are much healthier that any kind of soda...cheers!


Definitely true with red wine! Salut!
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197860 by She Runs
Mar 13, 2008 8:49am
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Quote Definitely true with red wine! Salut!


I hae breathing isses from time to time and have found that a glass of white wine, chardonnay, or a glass of white zinfindel is more effective than any medication I ever taken. There's probably no real scientific reason for it, but it works for me and I'm grateful. As for red wine, I know there's lots of science there, but I still like it anyway, lol!

Florida Sunsets
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197675 by Pungent Bob
Mar 13, 2008 10:05am
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I'm not claiming to know who or what is right, but I don't put much trust in any medical website that aggressively tries to sell anything and makes you sign up for newletters to read some of its "articles."


I thought there was a click through to go past that signup. I guess I must be logged in via cookie or something. Anyway, if you have interest in the article, I'd be happy to send it to you so you don't have to sign up.

I can understand that you feel that way, though. Sometimes the way he runs the site irks me a bit, but the information is sound. It is a good resource, IMO.

Barrett, however, is not. That man's got serious issues. LOL!

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197722 by Kirbert
Mar 13, 2008 10:06am
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The question is, can you still find the stuff with the aluminum in it?


Yep. In generics, store brands.

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #197848 by Redefining Normal
Mar 13, 2008 10:09am
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I have to agree. This has been a great discussion.


It's one of my favorite subjects (obviously). I've loved every minute of this discussion! :o)

3H
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #196948 by Kirbert
Mar 15, 2008 8:28pm
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BTW, you're not saving the world. Washing your glass takes as much energy as making the plastic bottle. You're probably saving a lot of money, though. And you would be saving petroleum -- a valuable and limited resource -- except that the power company is probably using petroleum to generate the power needed to heat the water and run the dishwasher anyway.


Your power company is probably using coal.

Here is the breakdown given in thousands of megawatt hours produced by electric utilities (as opposed to independent power production) with varying energy sources in the US in 2006.
  1. Coal 1,471,421
  2. Nuclear 425,341
  3. Natural Gas 282,088
  4. Hydroelectric 261,864
  5. Petroleum 40,903
  6. Other Renewables 6,588

Source:Energy Information Administration
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/epat1p1.html
All you ever wanted to know about sources of electricity
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #199130 by Human Ills
Mar 15, 2008 10:52pm
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Broken down by state, however, and California leads the nation in renewable sources. In fact the state surpasses every other sector (groups of states) in renewables. We are surpassed only by NY, Oregon and Washington State in hydroelectric generation. Middle of the pack in Nuclear power. Only Texas makes more electricity from Natural gas than California does. Maine, Hawaii and Alaska are the only states that burn less coal than California for electric generation.
There has been a drop of 45% petroleum liquid use nationwide between 2006 and 2007, in California the number is 60%.
Finally California, Louisiana and Florida are in a dead heat in Petroleum Coke power generation behind Kentucky.

Petroleum coke (often abbreviated pet coke) is a carbonaceous solid derived from oil refinery cracking processes.

Marketable coke is coke that is relatively pure carbon and can be sold for use as fuel, in the manufacture of dry cells, electrodes, etc. Needle coke, also called acicular coke, is a highly crystalline petroleum coke used in the production of electrodes for the steel and aluminum industries. Catalyst coke is coke that has deposited on the catalysts used in oil refining, such as those in a catalytic cracker. This coke is impure and is only used for fuel.

Its high heat and low ash make it a good fuel for power generation in coal fired boilers, but petroleum coke is high in sulphur and low in volatile content which pose some environmental and technical problems with its combustion. In order to meet current North American emissions standards some form of sulphur capture is required. Fluidized bed combustion is commonly used to burn petroleum coke.
Re: Paving the World
Board: Saving the World
Reply to: #199130 by Human Ills
Mar 16, 2008 8:03am
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Quote Here is the breakdown given in thousands of megawatt hours produced by electric utilities...


That certainly appears to be a reliable source, but I still don't believe it. Here in FL, where I know a thing or two about electricity production, we primarily rely upon nuclear, natural gas, and oil -- and I would have bet that oil was the biggest of the three. Within the past two decades, there have been two separate attempts to build a coal-fired plant here in N FL, both of them resulting in just short of open revolt on the part of the citizenry until plans were scrapped. I don't know if there is a coal-fired plant in Florida. We have a couple of small hydroelectric plants, but they don't produce a lot of power -- we don't have enough elevation change to get any real power out of them, and they only produce some fraction of the time due to lack of rainfall.

Many of our fossil fuel plants are set up to run on either oil or natural gas, and shift with the availability of natural gas. Many years ago, when I was watching more closely, we still usually ran most of them on oil. I suppose it's possible that they're all running on natural gas now, I just find it hard to believe. It should perhaps be noted that, as far as global warming is concerned, oil and natural gas are the same thing. The locals like natural gas better because it burns cleaner.

Back in the early 70's, there was a coal-fired plant in Tampa, run by the city. They spent a big wad of cash converting that plant to run on oil -- just in time for the oil embargo of 1973. There was a push shortly afterward to convert it back to coal, but I dunno if they ever did.

It wouldn't surprise me if most of the country -- especially the NE -- used a lot more coal and a lot less oil than we do here in FL. I just didn't think the use of oil was that tiny nationwide. In fact, I would have expected the use of oil in FL alone would push the numbers higher than that.