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Read Thread: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?

Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163433 by Butterfly Suzy
Dec 10, 2007 7:58pm
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Do we have to pay you now to snort online? =D

Most Emphatically, the answer is YES!

Kindly send payments to Ryan by way of PREmium memberships for putting up with me all year, but(t)...NEVER forget I "own" snort ™

AND GT owns AQ!

snort ™
My own twisted sense of humor...is "extra."

Thank you One and All for playing along with pre, even IF grudgingly and/or kicking and screaming!

preboxed
Denver, Colorado

A PREmium membership is SO cheap and EASY, really!

And what a Wonderful Gift!
it is!


ahem...©
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163314 by judithandsparky
Dec 10, 2007 7:58pm
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Happy Solstice to you too Judith and sparky! I love all of the high holidays! I love the smells of the boughs and too many candles on Solstice!

Ki
Spiralseekers
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163443 by preboxed
Dec 10, 2007 8:18pm
Board
My own twisted sense of humor...is "extra."


Yes, it is "extra" and quite a burden for us to bear, pre. Such a burden...*sigh*

GT should tm his shrug....
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163170 by Redefining Normal
Dec 10, 2007 8:28pm
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With NO apologies, what so ever for Bears! hehe

alt 0153 is your new best friend...BS or GT, or other readers

*sigh* back at ya ;-)

pre
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163204 by snapdragon
Dec 10, 2007 9:09pm
Board
Quote why do we say Happy Holidays only at this time of year?

there are holidays every month...what if around Independance Day you were to say it? :)


That reminds me of the scene in The Breakup where the guy keeps answering the phones, 'Happy Holidays'. But, it's been a couple of months since the holidays. It's the best scene in the movie, IMO.

BTW, I say Merry Christmas and I never write Christmas with an X because I got in trouble when I was little for crossing out Christ's name.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hollydays,

Janet, Blooming Flowers
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163403 by preboxed
Dec 10, 2007 11:17pm
Board
Pre, you crack me up !

Shiloh
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163277 by Alaska hsm
Dec 10, 2007 11:49pm
Board
Is it rude to respond to someone who walks up to your child and says "So what did you ask Santa for christmas?" with "Um, we don't do Santa."


Is it a child or an adult asking? If it's an adult then it's probalby OK but if it's a child then yes, it is a bit rude. You are spoiling their fun a bit.

I have a problem with comlepte stangers walking up to me and getting in my childs face.


Could you define 'getting in their face'? I mean, are they nose to nose or are they just bending down to your childs level and you're just being defensive?

I'm not trying to offend or be a jerk I'm just trying to get a perspective on it.

The idea of Santa is a generally accepted practice by our society so when someone says they 'don't do Santa' it can be a bit confusing,especially to the little ones.

Shiloh
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163297 by pika rampant sinister
Dec 10, 2007 11:57pm
Board
....I just know too many sensitive kids who had a real crisis when they learned about this.


And for each one of these kids there were thousands that accepted it just fine. I have to believe that these kids would have had a crisis over something else.

If a six year old asks where babies come from do you explain sexual intercourse or do you give them a nice story that they can understand? What I'm trying to get at here is that a well adjusted kid will grow up and learn about Santa on their own and be fine with it.

Shiloh
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163480 by shiloh
Dec 11, 2007 3:24am
Board
Quote If a six year old asks where babies come from do you explain sexual intercourse or do you give them a nice story that they can understand?


LOL - my just turned five year old asked the other day. She decided she wanted to be a mommy when she grows up and asked "how do you get a baby?". Ummm - I floundered for a bit (I was driving, she was in the back seat) and said "well, you probably ought to start by looking for a boyfriend", and after I went on for a bit about dating, and suggested several nice boys in her preschool class, she got bored and changed the subject - to adoption... ;-)) It worked perfectly!

And I even hesitated to start with the boyfriend thing, as we know (and are good friends with) several non-traditional families. But I think it will all come out in the wash - I'm not losing sleep over it!

And for the record, I'm pretty sure my 8 year old still believes in Santa - or he's smart enough to not let on that he "knows the truth". I've eased him into it by saying that Santa has a lot of helpers called "parents" - lol!!

Mama Fox
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163485 by The Little Foxes
Dec 11, 2007 5:04am
Board
St Nick's day is big in our house. It is something that is our very own tradition, which I love, and helps spread out the season. The gift giving from parents, grandparetns, aunts and uncles, all on one day can be overwhelming. So we do more on St Nick's day (Dec. 6th).The kids wake up to shoes filled with goodies, we read stories and poems about St Nicholas. Therefore, Santa isn't a bigge in our house. I had to laugh this year when my kids were so excited to see all the characters while watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. I'd hear, "Oh look! Shrek! Snoopy! Dora!" then at the end of the parade I heard, "Oh, there's Santa! But he's not real."
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163449 by Butterfly Suzy
Dec 11, 2007 5:09am
Board
No, no... GT's trademark is *nodding*. Sagely of course. ;-)
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163297 by pika rampant sinister
Dec 11, 2007 5:38am
Board
DISCLAIMER: Parents, if your kids are reading over your shoulder, you might want to send them away. Spoiler alert! ;o)

I don't condemn other parents for doing things different, although, I surely don't understand it. Why create false faith in a child, merely to destroy it later? It seems a bit...hmmm....selfish. Anyway, since we sort of consider "Santa" a cognate for "your parents," we just treat it that way when someone asks that question.


Agreed on all counts. I remember how betrayed I felt when I discovered that my family (and every other grown up, for that matter) was lying to me. It felt awful. Chalk me up as one of those sensitive kids, PRS. I choose, as a parent, not to continue the tradition in our family. I dunno...the whole idea of manipulating my children into good behavior with a lie just seems so wrong. Also not condemning or criticizing anyone...just my own personal experience and choices.

3H
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163503 by Three Hearts
Dec 11, 2007 6:21am
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Quote I remember how betrayed I felt when I discovered that my family (and every other grown up, for that matter) was lying to me. It felt awful.


That's sad, and I'm sorry you felt that way. 8-(

For my part, when I found out, I thought it was really amazing that such a huge fantasy had been created for the kids' sake. Also, when I looked back on all my wonderful Christmas morning memories they were that much more special to me. My parents worked very hard but had very little money when I was a kid, and they sacrificed quite a bit to make a happy Christmas for their children--while receiving none of the credit. What an unselfish thing to do, and a great example of the Christmas spirit.

That's my perspective.

Booknut
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163511 by Booknut
Dec 11, 2007 6:39am
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I remember when I found out. It made me feel "grown -up" I had a blast from that point on helping the grown-ups keep the secret from the little kids. I still LOVE to be in on a secret! especially one that makes so many people happy :) BBG
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163520 by Blue Box Girl
Dec 11, 2007 6:54am
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I still LOVE to be in on a secret! especially one that makes so many people happy :) BBG


kinda like letterboxing....don't cha think? a great secret that makes alot of us happy!!! ;)
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163327 by Redefining Normal
Dec 11, 2007 7:04am
Board
No, the Oak Tree was sacred to the Druids and the Norse; the Norse because it was associated with Odin; sacrifices were hung upon one. And trust me when I tell you that it's pretty gross in the specifics. For the Druids, the Oak symbolized a lot of things; judgement, strength (of course), and so on. The oak is also associated with Thor, and Yggrasil (the world-tree; the Norse thought the world was a tree).

For Winter Solstice, however, it was generally an evergreen tree of some kind. Signifying the eventual victory over winter (winter being a season associated with the annual death of light and life).

Also sacred to the Druids and other pagans in Europe were Mistletoe, Holly and Ivy (thus, the song; a crypto-pagan song thinly disguised as a Christmas carol).

Not that I'm up in arms about this, either.

Anyway, European pagans would hang lights (candles) on these trees, extremely hazardous! Also, later, presents.

When Christians started convincing others to join, the Europeans didn't want to lose their favorite winter festival. So, the Christians included it in their traditions. In some cases, because of a pragmatic desire to make the transition easier, I suppose. But I think it's pretty appropriate to open the middle of winter to a celebration of a night when a star and a choir of angels, and a special birth, turned night into a time of hope, not fear. It's especially appropriate to remember this when it's darkest.

The Yule log was oak or ash, depending on the area or tradition. Some places, you didn't have to work (except for stuff that was required to live) while it burned....hopefully for the 12 days of Yule.

Anyway; lots of plant traditions, here; I've made a lot of study of traditions; did you know that hawthorne bushes were believed to be entrances to the underworld? They supposedly smell like rotting bodies...Anyway, we Europeans were a superstitious and violent lot. Oh, well, we've come a long way...and I don't condemn my ancestors for not knowing everything....just figure do good with what we have, now. If people want to kiss under mistletoes, and sing "The Holly and the Ivy," and dress up for Halloween/Samhain, I figure they don't mean anything, in particular, by it; I have trouble really condemning innocent fun. So it has its roots in some pretty dire traditions (like the aforementioned Norse and their oak trees....*shudder*); it's innocent NOW, and I don't want to blame people alive, today, for things that happened 1000 years before. In the same way, I try not to blame a traffic accident on some guy sitting in a Starbucks, drinking coffee, on the other side of the world....

Sorry if I'm boring.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163503 by Three Hearts
Dec 11, 2007 7:18am
Board
It was interesting for me, because my parents didn't want to lie to my brother and I. I got a stocking and presents, supposedly from "Santa" but I knew it was my parents. I had no problem with this, and liked feeling smarter than my friends who still belived.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163485 by The Little Foxes
Dec 11, 2007 7:46am
Board
Quote I've eased him into it by saying that Santa has a lot of helpers called "parents" - lol!!


Lol! This was great. Reminded me of my own childhood when my parents used to qualify the whole Santa discussion by reminding me not to ask for anything they couldn't afford. The neighbors might think we stole it if I got something really expensive, lol! My parents might not have gone to college, but they sure had a BA in BS.

Florida Sunsets
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163528 by pika rampant sinister
Dec 11, 2007 7:59am
Board
PRS, thank you for the awesome and informative post. It's interesting how some traditions did come about. We are studying these in our homeschooling curriculum since tis time of year we do "CHristmas School." It's also interesting how the same traditions are attributed to several sources. Like:

Quote Anyway, European pagans would hang lights (candles) on these trees, extremely hazardous! Also, later, presents.


The tradition of hanging lights on the tree is also credited to Martin Luther wanting to reflect a particularly amazing starlit sky inside his home. We find a lot of conflicting stories out there.

THanks again for the info.
Florida Sunsets
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163479 by shiloh
Dec 11, 2007 9:23am
Board
Hi Shiloh,
There was someone else that asked this question, but it took me a while to reply because I thought that they were asking because there might be children here reading this. I was thinking, now why would kids that still believe in Santa be here without their parents? So I had to think on this.

Quote Is it a child or an adult asking? If it's an adult then it's probably OK but if it's a child then yes, it is a bit rude. You are spoiling their fun a bit.

It is always an adult. The funny thing is we have NEVER been asked by someone with kids. When other kids talk about it, my children know that yes we know the truth, but other kids don't so we can't talk about that with them, because it is up to their parents not us. I find nothing wrong with others doing it, its just not for us.

The reason we don't do it, it because it takes away from the true meaning of Christmas for us. We celebrate because of Jesus' birth. Yes, I know that he probably wasn't born during this time and yes I know that this season started out as a Pagan holiday season. However for OUR family, we celebrate it because of Jesus and that is why OUR family doesn't "do" Santa.

And when I say that they are in my child's face I really mean that. Nose to nose.

Just my 2 cents.

Alaska HSM
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163520 by Blue Box Girl
Dec 11, 2007 9:49am
Board
I remember when I found out


whach ya'll talkin about? What'd you find out?

I'm 35 and my mama tells us every year, she better not hear us say there isn't a santa or we don't get anything! It's a fun story just like every other fairy tale. Why is it considered a "lie"? I can't understand why it's so bad to let my kids have a fun time until Christmas morning. It's just fun. Nothing to get upset over when you find out the truth. Yes, my kids will (one already knows, the other is a baby) know the truth about the holiday that it's actually to celebrate Jesus' birth, but let the kids have fun and fantasy while they can. Soon enough they grow up and in the real world, it's not so much fun anymore. there's so much violence and hate and meanness. Let them be carefree kids!

sorry to those who are offended by my opinion.
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR
or my new saying....
HAPPY CHRISTMAS!!!
Dawn
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163569 by Alaska hsm
Dec 11, 2007 9:56am
Board
My opinion is that Santa is an idea, sort of the giving gift spirit of Christmas.

So it would probably be least offensive to say "So and so is hoping for... for Christmas." or words to that effect. Skip the Santa aspect, but intentionally so.

I *hate* the focus on gifts during this season. I tell my kids that the point of the holidays (dh is half jewish, and his parents like to celebrate BOTh with us.) is to give, not get. But everyone wants to know what they WANT.

Dh and I don't buy a gift for them. Unless its practical, clothes or sheets. (We'll splurge on cool ones for gifts only) But, we do let ourselves play santa and therefore spend a little on toys. I've liked the way it works out, esp for oldest.

Anyways...getting off topic...I do tell my kids to step back (two steps) if their space is invaded. They don't have to respond to strangers (though a polite response is preferred) and there's nothing wrong with "We don't do Santa"; but if you don't want to start anything just answering the question in a roundabout manner works fine.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163113 by pika rampant sinister
Dec 11, 2007 9:59am
Board
I had a Jewish friend in HS. He used to hand out candy canes and say "Merry Winter Solstice". With a wink.

I think the ones who get most offended are not the ones who celebrate Hanukkah but the ones most upset about the commercialization of the holidays.

Most people I know who only celebrate Hanukkah respond to Merry Christmas with a smile and "Happy Hanukkah, to you!" I never though t of it as offensive to either party.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163569 by Alaska hsm
Dec 11, 2007 11:07am
Board
Quote It is always an adult. The funny thing is we have NEVER been asked by someone with kids.


There's your clue. Christmas is a time of wonder and excitement through a child's eyes. For people who don't have kids, they want to get in on a little of this.

They are asking an informational question to try to get the kids to show their excitement and maybe talk about about Christmas decorations they've seen that they like or baking cookies or whatever.

Also, we're often told to get down on a level with someone to talk (ask people in wheelchairs about neck cricks), so that's what these adults are doing. Granted, they are bursting their personal space bubble.

You can say to back up a little bit and then maybe encourage your kids to talk about other traditions that you do, instead of Santa.

They could talk about candlelight service you go to on Christmas Eve, or the Sunday School program and what they are doing. Or maybe how you bake cookies, string popcorn, have a birthday cake for Jesus, whatever you do.

That way, you can make the point of what is important to you and your family and help a friendly (maybe overly) adult get in the spirit, too.

KuKu
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163569 by Alaska hsm
Dec 11, 2007 12:12pm
Board
Santa isn't real!?

*cries*
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163492 by hsing3kinder
Dec 11, 2007 1:14pm
Board
St Nick's day is big in our house. It is something that is our very own tradition, which I love, and helps spread out the season. The gift giving from parents, grandparetns, aunts and uncles, all on one day can be overwhelming. So we do more on St Nick's day (Dec. 6th).The kids wake up to shoes filled with goodies, we read stories and poems about St Nicholas. Therefore, Santa isn't a bigge in our house.


I always explained that Santa IS St Nicholas. Sinte Niklaus = Santa Claus.
Because St Nicholas, the bishop of Myra, was known for his generosity to children, and there is a story about him anonymously throwing presents down a chimney, we commemorate the saint's generous spirit by giving gifts using his name, in his honour.

As far as why fantasy and things that "aren't real" are important to children, I suggest reading the book Hogfather by Terry Pratchett.

Mariette
("The sun would not have risen. A ball of incandescent gas would merely have appeared in the sky.")
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163349 by SubRosa
Dec 11, 2007 1:34pm
Board
Quote
So how do you celebrate McBloong's Day?

Mariette


Ah, you fell into my trap. I was actually ASKED to explain McBloong's day.

On McBloong's day, McBloong's aardvark enters the homes of good little boys and girls and leaves boxing gloves full of pudding in the cupboards of the house, which the children will have to hunt around and find.

The homes of bad little girls and boys see a much different side of the aardvark; they are taken away for a 27-hour stint of their least-favorite homework (and for those who like academics, this might be dodgeball with gnomes, who are immensely strong, but short, and hard to hit), while the parents are sent to a hotel/spa.

Following this, the entire family opens fortune cookies with surrealist fortunes, all of which come true. So they may spend hours determining how their dad will be struck by someone who stretches time, or why mom will be a gibbon who gives the mayor a subpoena.

McBloong's day may come several times a year. It's hard to predict, that way. Much like surrealist fortune cookies.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163645 by pika rampant sinister
Dec 11, 2007 1:39pm
Board
see, the only thing I could think of, and the thought wouldn't let any other thoughts past it, was that to celebrate McBloong Day, you just have to celebrate the entire ding dang McBloong day all day mcblong.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163480 by shiloh
Dec 11, 2007 1:57pm
Board
Quote And for each one of these kids there were thousands that accepted it just fine. I have to believe that these kids would have had a crisis over something else.

If a six year old asks where babies come from do you explain sexual intercourse or do you give them a nice story that they can understand? What I'm trying to get at here is that a well adjusted kid will grow up and learn about Santa on their own and be fine with it.

Shiloh


Well, I am sure you have a right to believe that. I disagree, however.

And while, yes, the majority of kids will survive the experience, intact, I really think that making a few adjustments for sensitive and nice kids is the way to go. This is the same reason that I don't think that Elementary schools shouldn't be run like the Lord of the Flies; strong children will flourish, and the weak will be trampled under. Now, it could be argued that these weaker kids would just have been killed off by something else, later; very Darwinian, in fact.

I'm just saying that "well-adjusted" means more than most people think; someone with special talents will usually have slightly different needs. I mean, in the Dark Ages, any male who wasn't a warrior was considered a man with unusual needs. But all those people, who became merchants, artists, lawmakers, and so on, are people who benefit society. Adjusting for the "special needs" of people who are in possession of necessary talents, when the adjustment is so small does not, to me, seem out of line. If you want to discuss what this special talent is good for, that's good, too.

Again, you disagree. I'm not taking away your right to believe differently. And if you want to drop it, I'm fine.

As far as six-year-olds asking questions of babies, I'd reply, "Daddies and Mommies work together to bring babies." Most kids don't need to know more than that, until they're a bit older. It's again, not the whole story, but enough for the kid to go on with.

Anyway, I'm sure others are tired of hearing my long explanations.

But one last thing; if a child has a vulnerability in which he can receive injury, that's one thing; but imagine the difference between getting an injury and learning to deal with injury, and receiving that injury from someone you trust...who did it on purpose.
Re: new poll - merry christmas or happy holidays?
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #163546 by Redefining Normal
Dec 11, 2007 2:24pm
Board
Quote The tradition of hanging lights on the tree is also credited to Martin Luther wanting to reflect a particularly amazing starlit sky inside his home. We find a lot of conflicting stories out there.

THanks again for the info.
Florida Sunsets


No way! I hadn't heard about that one....Martin Luther? Really?

Hmm...okay, did some further research on this; some sources put the tree back to Jeremiah's time; but there, they're talking about idols, not trees, I think (adorning a wood carving with silver/gold).

Chopping the tree down (other than to carve into an idol) is a late invention; evergreen boughs were brought in by just about everybody from the Greeks to the Norse; and living evergreen trees were decorated as far back as the Romans (feast of Bacchus); Tertullian condemns the practice in the 2nd or 3rd century.

The Feast of Bacchus and the Saturnalia were Dec 17th to about the 25th. They decorated the tree with 12 candles to symbolize the 12 months of sun. At least, according to "Christmas Tree Traditions," by Diane Relf.


Later traditions about the Christmas tree; who knows? There's a lot of confusion and stealing of credit. It's hard to know what was reinvention, and what was fictionalization. It could be that Martin Luther came up with this on his own, and didn't know about the other traditions. But, there you go.

I thank you for telling me about the tradition; I didn't know about it.