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Read Thread: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....

Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Oct 5, 2013 4:49pm
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Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809046 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 5, 2013 4:56pm
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Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....

Not so hard--these can all be summed up with one phrase: "Don't piss me off."
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809048 by Wronghat
Oct 6, 2013 6:40am
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Ha, yeah pretty much. Even without going through those until I was a bit more learned in boxing, it seemed mostly obvious. Though we can't say we havn't had our issues.... Sigh, but will never learn.
Sorry to whatever happened to your box!
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809046 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 7:02am
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Cindy Lou, can you elaborate? Maybe we can help.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809106 by Boxer Lover47
Oct 6, 2013 7:50am
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I could, but it would be unnecessary. I just am frustrated with some local planters who seem to not care about poaching. This is the second time they have planted a box within a few feet of one of mine... Just venting! I don't think they ever read any of the boards anyway!
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809114 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 8:00am
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So? I mean, really, I used to think the way you do, but then I realized, what difference does it really make? If they did not do anything that was destructive, it doesn't make a difference.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809114 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 8:12am
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Did they use your clues as reference? Is it possible they didn't know it was there?

I planted a box in another state. I only had a few hours to plant, and tried my best to find the nearby boxes, BUT, some of the boxes that were nearby required one to take the entire loop trail, which was 4 miles long. I only went about a mile down the trail... and I do believe the loop intersected at points.. So it was entirely possible that I didn't know of the existance of a nearby box. I worried about that for a few minutes.

Also I know, like in Stone Mountain, there are boxes that are mysteries and others that are brain twisters, and those would be easy to plant next to, without knowing.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809119 by FloridaFour
Oct 6, 2013 8:37am
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Also I know, like in Stone Mountain, there are boxes that are mysteries and others that are brain twisters, and those would be easy to plant next to, without knowing.

That would be okay under the page that was posted, to do it accidentally. But the poaching brought up seemed to be using clues and locations in the new boxes.

I did a similar thing, but with permission. I didn't use the other boxes as references, but I did use the same trail and canyon. I also used the same clue style. It's my most recent plant, if you want to check it out.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809114 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 10:56am
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I had the same thing happen to a series of mine. The planter placed their box 10-20 feet away from one of my boxes. That part didn't bother me so much.

What really irked me was that she used my exact clues with a slight variation to direct people to her box. >:(

I never said anything b/c I didn't want to make an issue out of it but my panties were in a twist, for sure :P

Plant near my boxes, ok, not too bad. But! At least write your own *expletive* clues

~Mumma :)
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809114 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 11:00am
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Hi Cindy Lou,

I am a bit confused. Are you also someone else? Your profile doesn't say you planted any (I wanted to see from your boxes, who might have placed theirs by yours...if they were newbies, or what).

When I first started out, I asked a question about "poaching" and here's some of the responses I got:

http://www.atlasquest.com/boards/message.html?gMsgId=791129;gAuthorId=70707

====
I don't know the exact situation (other than there are boxes by yours) but seems like if they didn't tag off of your clues, they might not even know your box was there. Some folks aren't "detailed" people and don't do any research, and just think "this would be a cool place to plant a letterbox!" and plop one down.

J&J (just learning how to find out where geocaches are-they're in all of the cool places already!!)
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809126 by Mumma and Bunny Boy
Oct 6, 2013 11:14am
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she used my exact clues with a slight variation to direct people to her box.

word for word for most of it including some unique descriptions :/
~C~
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809127 by JampersandJ
Oct 6, 2013 11:15am
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J&J,
Yes, I am. I just wanted the opportunity to vent, but I do not intend to call out the other boxers by making it obvious what boxes I am talking about. What I will say though, is that the other boxers, while they did not use the exact wording from my clues, are aware that my Single box is within feet of their box as they have found mine in the past. In both cases, they were aware that they were planting close by. They just don't care. I don't intend to call them out or retaliate. I just find it frustrating. To me, it is a total lack of respect. In this second case, it is so close, that I have decided that as soon as I can swing by, I am going to retire my original box that has been in place for quite a few years.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809127 by JampersandJ
Oct 6, 2013 12:21pm
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just learning how to find out where geocache are-they're in all of the cool places already!!

You do need to find out how to find geocaches to avoid them, but it is good to place in their shadows. Just find a place at least 100 feet from the nearest cache. I've even placed a cache to protect a letterbox. However, geocaches must be at least 1/10th mile (528 feet) from each other, though the reviewers have some leeway. (I had a puzzle but I could get it just over 500 feet from the closest geocache so the reviewer let me place it when I explained. Asking before placing helps.)

Though, because of this placement restriction there are still a lot of good places between caches. If you place where there are few caches then you should find a cacher to place caches to protect your letterboxes. It's too bad we need to do this, but we're the lesser known hobby so we need to be more protective.

When you find a cacher to work with you can even do crossover boxes to help cachers understand letter boxers better. You can carve the stamp and the cacher provides the box. You can each provide your own logbooks and postings. That is a way to help cachers learn about letterboxing.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809130 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 12:30pm
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They just don't care. I don't intend to call them out or retaliate. I just find it frustrating. To me, it is a total lack of respect.

Some people. As someone who does both hobbies I figure that the first placement has precedence. But some people just don't respect that, including some letterboxers (which is why this thread was started).

In this second case, it is so close, that I have decided that as soon as I can swing by, I am going to retire my original box that has been in place for quite a few years.

I sympathize, but your box has quite some history. I'd suggest that you move it instead. If it is related to some landmark that you planted nearby then do an offset: Make them find the landmark (where the geocache is apparently now hidden) and give the seekers a distance and direction. That keeps the landmark related to your stamp but moves your box away from the geocache. Again, it is unfortunate that we (letterboxers) have to do this, but some people (from all walks of life) aren't respectful.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809134 by Oberon_Kenobi
Oct 6, 2013 1:07pm
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Make them find the landmark (where the geocache is apparently now hidden) and give the seekers a distance and direction. That keeps the landmark related to your stamp but moves your box away from the geocache.

I don't believe the OP said anything about a geocache near her letterbox ???
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809137 by Lovebirds-NC
Oct 6, 2013 1:50pm
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No, the original poster didn't talk about geocaches, but somebody mentioned it in passing.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809137 by Lovebirds-NC
Oct 6, 2013 2:54pm
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Yes, reading back, you are correct. The original problem was a letterbox poacher, but the same thing can be done.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809130 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 6, 2013 3:12pm
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the other boxers, while they did not use the exact wording from my clues, are aware that my Single box is within feet of their box as they have found mine in the past. In both cases, they were aware that they were planting close by.

Ah, definitely pond scum, then.

You're a better person than I. I would've started a thread "does xxx know that they've been poaching??!!" then probably a bunch of us would've sent them the link that defines what constitutes poaching.

Hugs to you,
J&J
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809154 by JampersandJ
Oct 6, 2013 4:10pm
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So, I've been following this thread, and I'm wondering some things. Why do we care, for instance, that someone is planting near us or near other boxes we've found? Cyclonic is right--it doesn't actually make a difference. But yet so many of us get really, really bothered (myself included.) I completely understand the reaction when it's a case of clue poaching, though. That's unconscionable!

The other thing I'm wondering is about the planters. Why do they plant so close? We have some of that happening here in our area sometimes, too, and I'm just trying to understand why it happens at all (in cases where the planter has found the previous box, sometimes on the same day he/she plants theirs.)

Thoughts?
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809117 by Cyclonic
Oct 6, 2013 4:39pm
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I think it makes a difference if you put restrictions on your boxes, so that not just anyone can find them. Then someone plants a box next to yours that doesn't have restrictions, means your box
could get found by "just anyone" looking for the other box.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809169 by WiseOldOwl
Oct 6, 2013 4:40pm
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Why do we care, for instance, that someone is planting near us or near other boxes we've found? Cyclonic is right--it doesn't actually make a difference. But yet so many of us get really, really bothered (myself included.)

Probably goes back to people who follow rules don't like it when others break rules on purpose (disregard for people and society and orderliness), the concept of personal space, the concept of intellectual property, and so on. I personally wouldn't mind that there might be a box a few feet away from mine, except if they did it without asking
Do not plant letterboxes near other people's existing letterboxes without permission

they would be breaking the rule, which I DO mind.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809177 by JampersandJ
Oct 6, 2013 5:51pm
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they would be breaking the rule, which I DO mind.

You think this is geocaching or something?

This is letterboxing, there are no rules in letterboxing!

There is no crying either!
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809202 by Cyclonic
Oct 7, 2013 2:34am
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Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809046 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 7, 2013 5:07am
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I used to think the way you do, but then I realized, what difference does it really make

Letterboxing Code of Conduct:
Do not plant letterboxes near other people's existing letterboxes without permission.

what difference does it really make

Letterboxing Code of Conduct:
Not only might the original letterbox planter not appreciate your efforts, but the added traffic with people getting your letterbox might cause unacceptable environmental damage or risk exposing the location of the original letterbox.

Letterboxing Code of Conduct:
Respect laws, rules, courtesy, property rights and copyrights whenever you conduct letterboxing activities. Most of these are common sense and common curtesy, but ultimately, it all comes down to respecting others.

Your answer must be courtesy and respect............And damage to location............. And risk of exposing original box....
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809046 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 7, 2013 5:34am
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They just don't care. I just find it frustrating. To me, it is a total lack of respect.

I myself TRY to play by the Code of Conduct, or so I thought until I realized that I am just as guilty as the planter.

Here is the Code of Conduct:
Do not hide a letterbox where you know the land managers do not allow them, or if the park has letterboxing guidelines, follow them to the letter

I found a series of LB's in a state park, I went in and found them, I'm guilty even tho they had a "good" excuse as to why they didn't follow the C of C.

Just this week-end I found a box on National Government land on a trail on the Blue Ridge Parkway.Until just recently I never even thought about boxes should not be on the BRP because our code of conduct says not to plant in National Parks. And the BRP is not a State thing it's a National thing.

I cry out when I see other having no lack of respect especially if it concerns MY stuff and overlook my own errors.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809114 by Cindy Lou Who
Oct 7, 2013 5:40am
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C of C says:

If you find a problem with the letterbox-maybe the clue needs updating or the letterbox needs maintenance-attempt to inform the owner of the letterbox of the problem.

Have you tried to respectfully contact the offensive LBer privately with your concerns?
Re: LB Code of Conduct - What is "near"?
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809265 by airstream dreams
Oct 7, 2013 12:31pm
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Just out of curiosity, what does everyone consider "near"?

For example, if a park has two hiking/nature trails and there is a box on one, is the other trail off limits without permission? Is the whole park off limits? If it's a 4 mile trail and there is a box at MM3, is MM1 off limits? Two miles between boxes seems "far" to me.

I try to be respectful and ask, or plant in locations where there aren't already boxes so I'm not looking to start any arguments. I really am just honestly curious.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809265 by airstream dreams
Oct 7, 2013 1:29pm
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Letterboxing Code of Conduct: Blah, blah, blah...

Letterboxing Code of Conduct: Blah, blah, blah...

Letterboxing Code of Conduct: Blah, blah, blah...

Pretty much sums it up, a bunch of nonsense that I have never bothered to read. Hate to say it, myself and plenty of others have been letterboxing long before there was some written "Code of Conduct," we didn't need it then, and we don't need it now.

Please feel free to read my previous posting regarding this.

There are no rules, you simply plant and if folks like it, they will find your box, if they don't they won't (there are boxes I will not search for), and you live or die by the choices you make.
Re: LB Code of Conduct - What is "near"?
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809318 by Southern Oracle
Oct 7, 2013 1:39pm
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People have told me "if you can see the other letterbox" they consider that "near". Definitely, 2 miles is not "near".

Maybe we can also use the geocache rule of thumb: 1/10 mile apart. For me, that's 2 minutes at my normal walking pace.

It's always good to contact others of our intent, and see if they mind if other boxes are near theirs.
Re: Respect.... Seems to be a hard concept....
Board: Traditional Letterboxes
Reply to: #809323 by Cyclonic
Oct 7, 2013 1:43pm
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So, if I really really really really like your stamp, I can just take it, and leave one of my discarded, crumbly, substandard pink stuff rejects in its place? <G>