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Read Thread: RIP Staedtler 1V

RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Aug 3, 2013 1:09am
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The Staedtler 1V is NLA. That being the situation, there's no question that I'll end up modifying Speedball #1's for people to carve with. The question is: Should we also be looking at something higher-quality for carvers who want something better than a Speedball?

Webfoot and I seem to be of different minds here. She'd just love to find a gouge that was as good as a Staedtler for a comparable price so we can get back into business just as we have been -- but I'm not convinced that's gonna happen. The only rubber and linoleum cutters we've found seem to be equivalent to Speedball or worse. There are woodcutting tools of all sorts, many of which seem to be of excellent quality, but they're all considerably more expensive than the Staedtler was. It's my feeling that, despite the higher cost, we should be looking at modifying some of these woodcutting tools in an attempt to create something as good (or better!) than the Staedtler.

There is one other issue, of course: The woodcutting tools usually seem to have a rather bulbous handle. That's because cutting wood requires more force than cutting rubber; woodcutters have to put their whole hand into it, not just their fingertips. Whether or not we can use them -- or modify them, possibly chucking the tips up in different handles -- to make usable rubber carving tools remains to be seen.

So, a quickie survey: Presuming that a modified woodcutting tool would cost $25, if you believe they should nevertheless be made available for those who are seeking finer detail, click [educational]. If you think that modified Speedballs will suffice from now on, click [interesting].

If you happen to have woodcutting tools on hand or are familiar with them, by all means weigh in here. I've modified a Flexcut and one or two others, but otherwise we're gonna be flying blind. One idea might be to get a handful of each of several types, but I'm still not entirely sure how we'd evaluate them. Remember, I'm not actually a gouge carver myself! Perhaps we need to engage Mama Wolf or some other exceptional gouge carver to evaluate woodcutting tools for us.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794523 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 5:40am
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I think we have to look for alternatives. As new carvers get better they are going to want quality tools. And since I carve a lot, I'm willing to pay a bit more. But I haven't found and alternative yet.
I got one of these. It's sharp and has a V but the V is too wide IMO. I like the handle just fine, though.

I'm not exactly a good person to evaluate tools, though, since it seems I carve differently than most. I really love my reverse but I think more people like the miniaturized. I think some of that has to do with how much I more my hand and the rubber (I think I move everything a lot more with different angles).
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794523 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 5:46am
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I voted for both. There are probably people who may want both. Plus, for new carvers and/or those who cannot shell out $25 for a new tool, but want something smaller, it might be nice to have the Speedball option available.

Maybe someday there will be another gouge as great as the Staedtler 1v, or maybe they will continue making it again. I can hope, right?
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794523 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 7:02am
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Sounds like I could get 50 12/12 slabs of oz for my 1v stade. :-)
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794543 by koalacat
Aug 3, 2013 7:20am
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I agree on making both available. I happen to love my miniaturized Speedball, but I'm also interested in other tools, and will shell out the bucks for them.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794523 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 7:23am
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Would it be worth it to start up an exchange program after you find a new and better gouge tool? That way those interested in the more expensive/better tool, could trade in their old Staedler to be sharpened and resold creating an after market for newbies that might not want to spend $25 on a first tool.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794563 by frykitty
Aug 3, 2013 8:48am
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Also something to consider is the new Stampin' Up tools. I haven't gotten to try one yet (my Stampin' Up rep has ordered one for herself and wants me to try it!), but they look a lot like Staedtler's gouges from the pics (though the pics so far haven't been that good).

Once we find out if these are decent, they may be a substitute for the Staedtler.

Just my thoughts. No flaming please!

BB
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794542 by The Wolf Family
Aug 3, 2013 10:37am
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since it seems I carve differently than most.

Uhhh.... Yes, definitely. You are the ONLY one I've ever heard talking about carving while standing in a line somewhere.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794598 by WalkinOrange
Aug 3, 2013 12:04pm
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I think Mama Wolf could certainly give good input into the use of a new tool, despite her odd carving practices. The quality of her work speaks to her ability to utilize tools!

In relation to the cost of the tool compared to the cost of carving mediums - I think as a hobby, it is prudent to have quality tools without busting the budget of the hobbyists. I am guessing once a tool is purchased, it can provide many years of carving enjoyment and be utilized on a large quantity of mediums, however it needs to be in a range that is workable. I am curious as to what that range would be. I would put mine somewhere with a top price of $25

As best as possible click a button that fits your total range (including taxes and shipping if need be) for purchase specifically of a carving tool:

Click funny: $0-$5
Interesting: $0-$10
Educational: $0-15
Agree: $0-20
Smite/Disagree: $0-25
Huh: $0-30
Hug: $0-35+
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794566 by TallDave and ThimbeLinda
Aug 3, 2013 1:23pm
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I have thought of something similar. I have wondered if there is a way contact boxers who seem to not be boxing any more to see (Webfoot might have a list of who she has sold Steadlers to) if they are interested in selling their tools.

Just trying to thing outside the box....
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794623 by bluebirdlover
Aug 3, 2013 6:05pm
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Yeah, we'll hunt them down like the dogs we are to get the good stuff. Woof, woof, woof. ;-)
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794675 by Okie Dog
Aug 3, 2013 6:43pm
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We have to start somewhere! Some of us are dogs & some of us are birds. I'll distract them & you grab those poor neglected Steadlers!
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794543 by koalacat
Aug 3, 2013 7:15pm
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As I tried to make clear, modified Speedball #1's will be available -- that's not in question. The issue is whether or not modified woodcutting tools should be made available in addition to the modified Speedballs.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794554 by The Lane Family
Aug 3, 2013 7:19pm
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One point I don't seem to have gotten across: A Staetler 2V is every bit as good as a Staedtler 1V. In fact, I can make a 1V out of a 2V. Yet 99% of the gouges sent to me for modification are 1V's. I'd bet good money there are a boatload of 2V's out there collecting dust in carvers' desk drawers when they could be sold to other carvers who lack any Staedtler tools at all.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794566 by TallDave and ThimbeLinda
Aug 3, 2013 7:22pm
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I've suggested a swap/exchange program several times. I've even suggested to Webfoot that she offer a credit to anyone who sends her a 1V or 2V. So far, nothing's happened. Presently, there are still a precious few new Staedtler 1V's available; perhaps we'll see more impetus for an exchange program when they're finally gone for good.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794611 by FORAYCH
Aug 3, 2013 7:24pm
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I think Mama Wolf could certainly give good input into the use of a new tool, despite her odd carving practices. The quality of her work speaks to her ability to utilize tools!

Gouges, anyway. She reportedly had no use for a wire knife, couldn't get it to work for her.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794701 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 7:27pm
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I probably should have added "a new gouge-like tool".

I like Wire knives for small dots, but I am similar to MW with knives - can't get them to carve the right things (medium) and not the wrong things (my skin!).

My wife does amazing work with knives, but does not carve stamps very often (if she put in the time, she would easily surpass my abilities).
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794611 by FORAYCH
Aug 3, 2013 8:06pm
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Well, that seems to indicate pretty much what would be expected: The higher the price, the fewer will sell. Meanwhile, we seem to have a pretty clear mandate that a top-quality carving tool should always be available regardless of price.

I suspect that the situation we're heading towards will be a world in which newbies are advised to obtain a modified Speedball, and those who have been carving a while are advised to make the serious investment in a high quality tool. With any luck at all, the modifications available for each will be similar -- miniaturized, reversed, or half-reversed -- and a newbie who buys the Speedball version of each can decide which one suits his needs and buy only one modified woodcutter.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794701 by Kirbert
Aug 3, 2013 9:07pm
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Gouges, anyway. She reportedly had no use for a wire knife, couldn't get it to work for her.

I'm actually extremely limited. I don't use knifes of any kind or needles. I simply use a reverse and regular Staedtler gouge.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794542 by The Wolf Family
Aug 3, 2013 9:32pm
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I got one of these. It's sharp and has a V but the V is too wide IMO. I like the handle just fine, though.

That's what I use, and it's really more of an "L" than a "V", with the angle about 90°. I don't use it like a "V". Instead, I use one edge as the cutting edge, held nearly vertical along the line to be cut, almost like a knife, while the second edge, held almost horizontally and at right angles to the first, just removes the excess rubber as I go along. That tool sells for $12.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794728 by The Wolf Family
Aug 3, 2013 9:45pm
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I'm actually extremely limited

What a statement in general! LOL

Now come on, MW, you are just making it too easy to raz you ;)

BTW, What you do with a reverse and regular Staedtler is amazing! That you create your stamps while waiting in lines is nothing short of awe-inspiring.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794738 by FORAYCH
Aug 3, 2013 9:49pm
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Ummm... Foraych? Have you looked at your own work lately??? You can do anything I can do! And I think you use more tools, don't you?
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794739 by The Wolf Family
Aug 3, 2013 11:11pm
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You can do anything I can do!

We can agree to disagree on this one - though I will keep trying :)

As for using more tools, I regularly use Kirbert's creations - Staedtler 1v reversed and miniaturized (though the reversed far more), plus his modified Speedball tips - LOVE the #2U, and find the 3U and 4short useful as well. I have a few wire knives as well, though use these less often and only for very tiny dots - like inside letters or eyes.

I could foresee seeking other tool modifications Kirbert creates in the future given my joy of what he has produced so far.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794714 by Kirbert
Aug 4, 2013 8:57am
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newbies are advised to obtain a modified Speedball, and those who have been carving a while are advised to make the serious investment in a high quality tool.

I find this discussion fascinating. I've been carving for 4 years now using only Speedball tools. Mr. Lovebird pinched a #1 for me but I rarely use it. The #1 and depth control works great for me. No serious investment needed.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794734 by Trailhead Tessie
Aug 4, 2013 12:09pm
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Interesting. That description sounds suspiciously similar to using the half-reversed gouge that I just tested for the first time!
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794728 by The Wolf Family
Aug 4, 2013 12:10pm
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I'm actually extremely limited.

Yeah, and I hear that your boxes suck.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794748 by FORAYCH
Aug 4, 2013 12:13pm
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...Staedtler 1v reversed and miniaturized (though the reversed far more)...

Oddly enough, the feedback I get from Webfoot indicates that the miniaturized sells much better. Not sure what's up wit dat, as I believe you, I, and Mama Wolf all prefer the reversed. Must be something about the description that makes people order the mini instead.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794748 by FORAYCH
Aug 4, 2013 12:26pm
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I could foresee seeking other tool modifications Kirbert creates in the future given my joy of what he has produced so far.

Hmmm. I have a lot of things in my carving toolbox that I haven't offered to the public yet. One is an off-the-shelf item, an oxy-acetylene tip cleaning tool:

http://www.whiteheadindustrial.com/p-7885-tip-cleaner-kit-oxy-acetylene-regular.aspx

This thing is simply ideal for making tiny white dots in black areas, and there's a wide selection of sizes to choose from, all in one little package available in pretty much any hardware store for a coupla bucks.

I also have some modified hypodermic needles I use to make tiny black dots in white areas, a tiny pencil-shaped battery-powered grinding tool with a bit that I modified myself, and a 10X magnifier. I don't use that 10x magnifier often for carving, but I use it all the time for modifying gouges.
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794819 by Kirbert
Aug 4, 2013 1:01pm
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It seems like whenever we do a survey, more people tend to like the miniaturized better. Aiphid and Adventure Crafter prefer the minis and they are amazing carvers.

I had a reverse Speedball from Eli and Aubrey before you started them so I was used to one already. The minis are closer ro the normal ones so it may be that reverses take some getting used to. The minis are easier to transition to. I just dont find them much different that a normal one so I prefer the reverse. I can pivot a reverse straight up and spin with just the point for a circle. I love the different angles I can carve at with it!
Re: RIP Staedtler 1V
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #794598 by WalkinOrange
Aug 8, 2013 3:43am
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well, no actually. i carve in weird places too- and i've carved standing up as well.

gouge carving is not as finicky as knife carving i think. . .

the wood gouge i got is definitely sharp enough but is not small enough - not even the smallest one. i sort of want it miniaturized. the handle isn't really the problem, it's the v. the price wasn't bad - i didn't get it from Dockyard, i got it from someone else whose name escapes me at the moment. i think it was about $18. (it could have been on sale for Christmas).

~tigs