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Read Thread: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp

Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #59974 by mstrwndl
Jan 1, 2007 12:43am
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Quote I still struggle with that one, but I can assure you that it was not something that my folks did or even could have done.


Back it up a little, then. Was it inevitable that you would take up smoking? Or could you have gone another way?

Quote I don't think the kids that acted on the letterbox the way they did made the decision to do so on their own. Their part in it was their decision, but I am almost certain it was a group effort. It almost always is.


I'll agree with that. I find it difficult to imagine a person, all by himself, writing such things in a log book. It almost certainly was a group thing. And just as certainly, all the parents involved had failed their children.

Quote Perhaps a resolution to make better decisions is in order for all of us.


Perhaps a resolution to do better by our children would be more apropos.

-- Kirbert
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #59962 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 10:30am
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Quote Conversely, if the kids are taught how to make decisions for themselves and to control their own behavior,...


But what happens if the kids are "taught" these things by their parents, then make their own decisions and choose not to "learn" the lessons their parent taught. Is it still the parents fault?

It's a catch 22.
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60039 by Mn8X
Jan 1, 2007 12:08pm
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Quote But what happens if the kids are "taught" these things by their parents, then make their own decisions and choose not to "learn" the lessons their parent taught. Is it still the parents fault?


"Lessee. I'm considering taking up smoking, a filthy, disgusting habit that will cost me hundreds of dollars per year, ruin my health, offend most of the people around me, make me about as appealing to the opposite sex as a dirty ash tray, and I'll be horribly addicted for life. Yeah, that sounds good to me."

If your kid makes this decision, he is clearly retarded. His brains just don't work. Yeah, you could say that's the parents' fault for bad genes, but really, there's nobody to blame for mental retardation, it's just bad luck.

I know lots of you out there want to try to rationalize this in any of several ways, but really the issue is pretty simple. There are many decisions out there that are absurdly easy, such as whether or not to take up smoking. It's simply not possible to make any sort of rational decision to take up smoking, and hasn't been for 40 years at least. So, by definition, we're talking about irrational behavior. And like it or not, somebody is at fault for irrational behavior -- IMHO, usually the parents for failing to teach their children to think rationally.

-- Kirbert
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 12:28pm
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Quote I'm considering taking up smoking, a filthy, disgusting habit that will cost me hundreds of dollars per year, ruin my health, offend most of the people around me


But that's not the decision most kids are making. For them it's "I'm considering taking up smoking, which will make me look 'cool' and get me friends in the 'in crowd.' " They feel like they're invulnerable, so the health aspects don't apply to them, and fitting in is the most important thing in the world to them. Plus, at that point in their lives, annoying their parents would be seen as a plus, too. Their brains aren't done growing and maturing yet, so they sometimes make stupid decisions for stupid reasons.

DebBee
Re:retarded smokers was: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 12:34pm
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Quote IMHO, usually the parents for failing to teach their children to think rationally.


I know a set of twins where one boy grew up to be a doctor and the other boy is in jail.

I suppose the parents went out of their way to "teach" one son to make smart choices and completely neglected the other.

Quote "Lessee. I'm considering taking up smoking, a filthy, disgusting habit that will cost me hundreds of dollars per year, ruin my health, offend most of the people around me, make me about as appealing to the opposite sex as a dirty ash tray, and I'll be horribly addicted for life. Yeah, that sounds good to me."

If your kid makes this decision, he is clearly retarded. His brains just don't work. Yeah, you could say that's the parents' fault for bad genes, but really, there's nobody to blame for mental retardation, it's just bad luck.


I'm not even going to touch that one. I'm sure there are enough other's to do it.
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 12:43pm
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Quote Lessee. I'm considering taking up smoking, a filthy, disgusting habit that will cost me hundreds of dollars per year, ruin my health, offend most of the people around me, make me about as appealing to the opposite sex as a dirty ash tray, and I'll be horribly addicted for life. Yeah, that sounds good to me."

If your kid makes this decision, he is clearly retarded. His brains just don't work.


Apparently, I'm retarded....

News to me, my parents, my high school - which awarded me a diploma, my college - which awarded me a bachelors and masters degree, the state agencies that tested and awarded me certification in two separate teaching fields, and the people who have hired me to educate others' children.
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 1:05pm
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If your kid makes this decision, he is clearly retarded. His brains just don't work. Yeah, you could say that's the parents' fault for bad genes, but really, there's nobody to blame for mental retardation, it's just bad luck.


Please don't bring mental retardation into this discussion. And yes, there can be somebody to blame for mental retardation such as in the cases of fetal alcohol syndrome.

What you are talking about is teens making bad choices in spite of being taught all the good and moral values. That has been occuring as long as there have been people and recorded history. Think of all those kids who drink and drive and kill themselves or somebody else.......think their parents taught them to do that....or that those were conscious decisions to kill or maim?......or were they just bad decisions with horrible consequences? Please remember when you were a teen and a corner of your soul told you that you were bullet-proof and invincible.

However, you must admit that there are some parents who teach their kids very little. While it is not limited to a specific population, there are an inordinate number of kids who come from 1 parent homes where nobody has a JOB. You can't teach or model self-respect when you have none yourself.

Stepping off my soapbox again!
z
enough?
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60056 by zoemomma
Jan 1, 2007 1:38pm
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Maybe this discussion is best left behind in 2006.
Re: twins- doctor & inmate WAS: retarded smokers WAS: Soccer
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60050 by Mn8X
Jan 1, 2007 2:13pm
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Quote I know a set of twins where one boy grew up to be a doctor and the other boy is in jail.

I suppose the parents went out of their way to "teach" one son to make smart choices and completely neglected the other.


Awwww, geeee. That's not fair to say at all!

Give the doctor some time, yet.

Lots of them end up in jail.

Or maybe the parents only taught the one twin how *not* to get *caught*!

MisterSnarky (Oh, please, don't call me "Mister"
Re: enough?
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60060 by lisascenic
Jan 1, 2007 2:33pm
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Quote Maybe this discussion is best left behind in 2006.


Hi Lisascenic

I think that "enough" needs to be put in the glossary of letterboxing terms.

Although it is certainly interesting how a mention of one little logbook entry morphs into the criminal activities of a Doctor, or the raising of Cain and Abel,and all without the benefits of a full moon? At least it is on the right channel....DHL&K.

Don
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 3:48pm
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Thank you to who ever placed this into the dead horses and lemurs, where it belongs. I do not see any need for anyone to have to put up with these offensive, vile rants.

PB
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60049 by DebBee
Jan 1, 2007 3:49pm
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Quote For them it's "I'm considering taking up smoking, which will make me look 'cool' and get me friends in the 'in crowd.' "


Which means they are succumbing to peer pressure. Which, as I said at the beginning of this discussion, is the problem. Parents need to be raising their kids to be far less susceptible to peer pressure.

Y'know, it might be fun to point out to your kids that the people they most admire and would like to emulate probably wouldn't be caught dead doing something just because other people were doing it.

Quote Plus, at that point in their lives, annoying their parents would be seen as a plus, too.


A parenting problem. Yes, they will seek to annoy their parents, but if raised correctly they would find ways to irritate their parents without getting hooked on addictive substances.

Of course, that's another issue. Back in the day, we could irritate our parents by wearing our hair too long or getting a tattoo. Nowadays parents are so permissive that it's very difficult to irritate them. So kids have to come up with things like nipple piercings and rap music. Parents probably need to find ways that their kids can irritate them without permanent damage.

Quote Their brains aren't done growing and maturing yet, so they sometimes make stupid decisions for stupid reasons.


I knew better than to start smoking when I was 8. Every single child should be fully aware of the health implications of tobacco use by age 8 or so, should be fully grounded in making sound decisions about their own lives by age 12, and should be experienced at applying that decision-making by age 16. They shouldn't be able to get their hands on cigarettes until at least mid-teens; that's the entire reason for the bans on providing minors with tobacco, that they should be mature enough to make wise decisions before being given the opportunity to make a decision this stupid.

The problems occur due to bad parenting. The parents make every decision for their children, and never give them any guidance on making their own decisions nor any opportunities to think for themselves. As a result, they graduate from high school and strike out on their own with no more maturity than would reasonably be expected of a properly-raised 12-year-old. They are suddenly faced with life-changing decisions to make with no skills or experience at making such decisions. It's no wonder that they make bonehead decisions based on such faulty reasoning as "it's what the cool people are doing."

Hey, I'm having fun here, but not much new is getting said. You all know my stand by now; I'll quit.

-- Kirbert
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60052 by Jenni P McD
Jan 1, 2007 3:55pm
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Quote
Quote If your kid makes this decision, he is clearly retarded. His brains just don't work.


Apparently, I'm retarded...


Clearly a lot of people are missing the point here. The point is, that decision is easy, anybody with brains that work would come up with the correct decision. The point is that these kids are not making this decision at all. They aren't thinking, period, they're just allowing whims and impulses to blow them this way and that.

It's not the inability to make the correct decision that I'm blaming on bad parenting. It's the lack of consideration at all prior to doing such stupid things that I'm blaming the parents for.

-- Kirbert
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60089 by 4 little piggies
Jan 1, 2007 4:41pm
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If you find that a certain poster is continually offending you, there is a way to ignore them. You'll need to view their profile and there is a nice little 'ignore' button there that allows it.

Works for me as I have missed most of the venom of this thread.

LB
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60091 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 5:14pm
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How many kids do you have, Kirbert?

FG
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60090 by Kirbert
Jan 1, 2007 6:13pm
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Quote The parents make every decision for their children, and never give them any guidance on making their own decisions nor any opportunities to think for themselves.


I generally have avoided this thread since most people think Kirbert is a stubborn pain in the you-know-what and thinks he's smarter than he really is (sorry, Kirbert, but I figured you already knew that). But isn't the problem with allowing kids to think for themselves and make their own decisions cause them to also make unwise decisions? You can give kids guidance, but you can't make them listen if they don't want to.

Why do kids smoke? Peer pressure certainly can play a big roll, but I suspect there's also them trying to "feel adult" (since only adults are legally allowed to smoke) or even that they "hate" their parents and want to do something that would make them mad. It doesn't matter if it's unhealthy--the health affects won't catch up to them for a long, long time. When you're 16, the concept of dieing of lung cancer in 50 years isn't much of a deterrent.

Anyhow, you're concept of parenting has a fatal flaw which is that you cannot control every single decision, feeling, and thought that goes through a kid's head. You cannot watch a kid 24/7. Some kids are naturally smarter/stronger/whatever than others. If they all came out of the same mold, perhaps there could be a single instruction book on life. But that's not going to anytime soon.

-- Ryan
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60129 by Green Tortuga
Jan 1, 2007 7:09pm
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May we all have a great 2007 with a more enlightened outlook .....good luck to all the parents out there....we are all doing the best we know how with what we were given, or we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If you were appauld by the actions of the few nuts that vandalized the logbook...that is the right response. The fault lies with the people who did it, no matter how old or not ...a single person wrote and then another with malice. It is sad but it happened....the issue is that the world sometimes surprises us in bad ways and that SUCKS!!!

So tear out the pages start anew and let's get on with the great things in life...the fun to be had and the good energy that is out there. There are GOOD kids who want to find that box with parents who are working hard to build families that are strong and close ...so clean it up and replant ....cause here we come a huntin.......; )
By the way do you have any hints for where I could find it? or maybe a plane ticket??? hehe

Happy NEw YEAR TOO ALLLLL !!!!
teekasue
Re: "Soccer•Swim•Ski" personal stamp
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #60047 by Kirbert
Jan 2, 2007 5:31pm
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Are you a parent, Kirbert?