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Re: Happy Yule y’all Event
Board: State: Georgia
Reply to: #969042 by The Red Hare
Dec 5, 2018 5:20am
Thread Board
Happy AQversary
Visiting your state
Board: State: New Jersey
Dec 5, 2018 5:38am
Thread Board
I am coming to visit NJ for 3-4 days in late Jan. early Feb. I don't know much about the state but I'm looking for attractions that might be good for 3 older woman to do besides boxing. I'm the only boxer but they will indulge me for a few boxes. So I'm looking for a few really memorable boxes also. Our plans are up in the air, we just know NJ and the appx. time frame.
Not sure of which part of the state, the exact dates, etc. We are looking for attractions and any outdoor short trip/attraction that is worth seeing. So come on NewJerseyites pump up your state.
Re: New Mystery Postal is now open for your enjoyment clue 4
Board: Postals
Reply to: #968989 by IrishRef
Dec 5, 2018 5:57am
Thread Board
Two correct answers already.

Clue 4 = September 6, 1980
Re: Visiting your state
Board: State: New Jersey
Reply to: #969087 by Sagacorn
Dec 5, 2018 7:10am
Thread Board
I remember really enjoying Edison's laboratory tour as a kid. It was pretty fascinating.
Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Dec 5, 2018 12:55pm
Thread Board
Taking the temperature of the folks here to see what you all think.

In recent months there have been several boxes planted in the New River Gorge National River. Unless there has been a major shift in policy in the last month, planting in the park is still against the park rules.

I've been working for a long time to try and change the mind of Superintendents (to no avail) but I won't plant in the park personally. How do you all feel about boxes like these? I know the rangers do pull boxes in the park but so far the recent ones haven't been located by them. I know several of the rangers personally and they don't like finding boxes in the park given that it's known not to plant there. It's not like they pursue the planters to give them tickets but it's more of a nuisance. It just affirms their reluctance to change the policy.

Thoughts?
Re: Visiting your state
Board: State: New Jersey
Reply to: #969087 by Sagacorn
Dec 5, 2018 1:14pm
Thread Board
Pakrat has some very interesting mystery boxes. Some are more difficult than others. Or you could read that easier than others. Some of them have been around a long time but he is pretty good about keeping up with the status. I've done some and have never been disappointed.

This site has some cool stuff. The sculpture garden in Hamilton Township has been on my bucket list for a while now.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/things-to-do/new-jersey

There's not a whole lot of planting going on in Jersey but I have spent a fair amount of time going across the border from NY. lol

Oh......Scout just planted quite a few in Princeton! They should be great. Haven't made it there yet.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 1:55pm
Thread Board
It can be hard to remain ethical when others are doing wrong. I applaud you for yours. I'm sure you are aware of all the ways you can react to this so I won't elaborate. You have to follow your heart and do what is right; but I will say a rule is a rule and the rangers will somehow find out about these boxes.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 2:31pm
Thread Board
I wouldn't plant any but I would definitely look if some boxes were planted there.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 3:05pm
Thread Board
Thoughts?

I applaud you for respecting the rules and not planting there. If I were faced with this, I would send a message to the planter letting them know that these boxes are in violation of the Park's rules, and that you are aware of previous boxes being discovered and removed (and discarded?). So, if they value these plants, they should probably remove and relocate them to a more acceptable location, before that happens.

I wouldn't go beyond warning the planter, though. I wouldn't remove them myself, or "out" them to the Rangers. Let the inevitable happen if the planter ignores you.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 3:14pm
Thread Board
I feel like it makes us as a community look terrible. They said not to plant them, so don't plant them. I'd definitely write the planter and tell them to get their boxes out of there. I wouldn't remove them myself, but I also wouldn't go and find them, generally. I don't want us in the news for the wrong reasons. I would also bring it up to Ryan. I have heard he can make clues for boxes like these disappear.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 3:23pm
Thread Board
1. If they say don't do it, then don't do it.
2. The New River Gorge website it has a pack it in/pack it out rule.
3. If we alienate the management now, it will make it harder for those trying to get the management to change their minds.

We don't want another incident like the Disney decree.
Re: WavesandWaterfalls' BOTM
Board: State: Oregon
Reply to: #969007 by dancingpecan
Dec 5, 2018 3:58pm
Thread Board
Thank you for doing that!
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 4:08pm
Thread Board
Unless there has been a major shift in policy in the last month, planting in the park is still against the park rules.

The speed limit on Main Street is 25 mph. Guess what. What should I do about it?
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 5:23pm
Thread Board
To protect your positive and tenous relationship i would pull all those planted inappropriately. Could give you more cred with the park and it is the right thing to do. We had a similar problem years ago in Harpers Ferry. The NPS actively went after them. Good luck with this quest.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969091 by Old Celt
Dec 5, 2018 5:29pm
Thread Board
Has it occurred to you that the people who have planted boxes in the New River Gorge area are not aware of a policy such as the one you describe?

We planted a box there yesterday, and we're assuming that's what triggered your post. We reviewed the NPS web site for the New River Gorge National River and checked the park's published policies including the superintendent's compendium. No prohibition of letterboxes (or geocaches) was mentioned that we could locate. If you know where to find this rule on the park web site, please post a link.

You say "it's known not to plant there," but how can one know there's a prohibition if it is not publicized by the park? Is this a rule that the rangers themselves have adopted on their own?

Thanks for any links you can provide to the publication of this official policy.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969103 by IrishRef
Dec 5, 2018 6:02pm
Thread Board
i would pull all those planted inappropriately

That would just create a larger problem when people can't find the box they're looking for, because they'll spend more time searching, and if the location is delicate that could lead to greater damage. What is your goal? Making sure everyone follows rules? Or is the goal to make sure nothing is damaged in the park? If it's the latter, then never remove a box until the listing is first removed.

Also, is the box in an area where it could cause actual damage? I'd respond to a box that leads to people crushing a delicate alpine zone differently than a box planted in the middle of a forest. One is a technical rule breaking issue and the other is causing actual harm. It's the difference between driving 56 mph in a 55 zone (a violation of state law for which you can be fined) vs someone driving hazardously at 110 mph.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969104 by Road Junkies
Dec 5, 2018 6:05pm
Thread Board
To anyone who assumes that their fellow letterboxers are willfully violating rules and acting against the best interests of the letterboxing community and natural areas, please give people the benefit of the doubt until you find out the rest of the story.

Can't we all just get along?
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969093 by Sagacorn
Dec 5, 2018 6:30pm
Thread Board
It can be hard to remain ethical when others are doing wrong.

Disagree. Wrong is wrong. If the park supervisors find out about the illegal boxes it makes it harder for those of us trying to get them legally accepted.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969106 by Rodney King
Dec 5, 2018 6:37pm
Thread Board
By emailing the planter and letting them know it's not allowed, you're not accusing them of anything. You're just letting them know. I say when in doubt, email the planter, but then, if they don't respond correctly, take whatever steps you feel appropriate.

And in response to knowing, I feel like anything that says National on it is out. I just avoid it like the plague.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969108 by PiggyJaunt
Dec 5, 2018 7:09pm
Thread Board
At one time, apparently most NPS properties did discourage letterboxing. As evidenced here, that is no longer a blanket NPS policy.

https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/letterboxing.htm

So in the absence of a stated policy on the park's site, there's no way for a letterboxer to know that planting boxes is prohibited in a particular park.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969108 by PiggyJaunt
Dec 5, 2018 7:27pm
Thread Board
if they don't respond correctly, take whatever steps you feel appropriate.

So ANYBODY can determine if ANYONE ELSE'S response is "correct"? And they can do whatever they want with the box, if the response didn't meet what they wanted it to be?

Sure, I can understand if something is dangerous or poses a threat. Common sense is a wonderful thing. But if someone plants a box, just because you don't agree with the placement does not give you Letterboxing Police Authority.
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969110 by Everybody
Dec 5, 2018 7:31pm
Thread Board
So ANYBODY can determine if ANYONE ELSE'S response is "correct"?

Woohoo!! RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969112 by Anybody
Dec 5, 2018 7:47pm
Thread Board
Has there been a more alias spinning thread than this? Also dibs on the "alias spinning thread" meme.
Re: Visiting your state
Board: State: New Jersey
Reply to: #969087 by Sagacorn
Dec 5, 2018 7:59pm
Thread Board
If you are going to be in northern NJ and want nice hikes, you want to check out boxes by Wing Foot. I have a couple boxes scattered from north to central NJ.

When you have a better idea where you will be, write another post!

Lynn
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969113 by Wronghat
Dec 5, 2018 8:05pm
Thread Board
Has there been a more alias spinning thread than this?

Hmmmm... let me think...
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969113 by Wronghat
Dec 5, 2018 8:15pm
Thread Board
Who? Me?
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969104 by Road Junkies
Dec 5, 2018 9:53pm
Thread Board
You have been made aware of the issue by the local planter. Can we agree that it wasn't with ill intent? Based on those assumptions do you have any problem with a local moving the box off NPS property and communicating with you on clue changes?
Re: New Mystery Postal is now open for your enjoyment
Board: Postals
Reply to: #968989 by IrishRef
Dec 5, 2018 9:57pm
Thread Board
Make that 3 correct and that was an obscure clue 8nless you were already on the correct track. Shifting gears slightly with clue 5. Remember ALL the clues must fit.

Clue 5 :The Golden Circle
Re: WavesandWaterfalls' BOTM
Board: State: Oregon
Reply to: #969007 by dancingpecan
Dec 5, 2018 10:00pm
Thread Board
Well, I spoke too soon. WavesandWaterfalls was able to get over there today and replace the stamp herself. Hurrah, she's on the mend.

dp
Re: Ethical question
Board: State: West Virginia
Reply to: #969117 by IrishRef
Dec 5, 2018 10:05pm
Thread Board
Based on those assumptions do you have any problem with a local moving the box off NPS property and communicating with you on clue changes?

Why? Where is there an indication that LBs are not allowed? As has been pointed out (WITH A LINK), NPS no longer explicitly prohibits them, and it is up to each park to make their own determination. Why remove someone else's box based on "well, maybe someone somewhere has an unwritten and unposted prohibition for this specific park, based on word of mouth"? How does it "look bad" or generate "ill-will", if the rules aren't posted and published?