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Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925463 by zinni
Apr 29, 2016 1:28am
Thread
If you're pretty sure it's not the original stamp, you could log the box as an attempt

I think we're following clues to hunt down letterboxes. If you can ink up a stamp from within the letterbox at the end of the clues, you should be good for a find for the letterbox. Pressing the image into your logbook and your trail stamp into the box logbook were originally meant to be conformation of a successful hunt. Letterboxing seems to have morphed into a more stamp centric hobby. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a great stamp, whether it's finding one or being fortunate enough to plant one from a fantastic carver, but that is the delicious icing on the cake (though it can take a letterbox to another level of satisfaction).
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925469 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 3:34am
Thread
The owner better be long gone, because if he's still around I suspect he'd be upset! Why would you do this, though? Why don't you just pull the box and maybe plant a new box?

In one case it was one of the very first boxes planted in West Michigan... letterboxing was just getting off the ground here and very few people had found the box yet. At the time -- this was way before AQ when we still chatted on the LbNA Yahoo group -- there was a consensus that people would like the box preserved if possible. The owner was from out-of-state and not planning to be back; he gave his okay for me to carve a replacement stamp. He didn't have the image though -- the original stamp was not carved, rather made with some kind of lead beading on a piece of wood.

Another situation that comes to mind was a box that I had adopted from one of the very early letterboxers in Michigan who had stopped boxing. It was a popular box in a fun spot. As the adopter, the box was my responsibility -- had it been my box, I would have replaced the stamp, so I did the same for the adopted box.

In both of these cases, there was some history involved that was worth preserving.

SpringChick
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925469 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 3:41am
Thread
Really? The owner better be long gone, because if he's still around I suspect he'd be upset! Why would you do this, though?

Why wouldn't you? You would replace the logbook or the tupperware, wouldn't you? I see nothing wrong with this at all. If the planter cares, then its on the planter to make sure everything is there. If the planter doesn't care or is out of the hobby/area, then whatever.

This sense that once you place something in the wild that you still somehow own or control what happens to it seems odd to me. Yes you can try to do that, but you should not be "upset" about what transpires in the wild, IMHO anyway.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925469 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 3:49am
Thread
The owner better be long gone, because if he's still around I suspect he'd be upset! Why would you do this, though? Why don't you just pull the box and maybe plant a new box?

This is an interesting perspective, but as a box owner I would be more upset if somebody pulled my box and planted a new one of their own than if they gave it some TLC and added a replacement stamp.

SC
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925472 by dingus dufus
Apr 29, 2016 3:51am
Thread
Letterboxing seems to have morphed into a more stamp centric hobby.

Indeed. To answer the OP's question, in the days I counted finds, I would count it if there was no stamp at all. All I need to see is the boxed-shaped depression or a shard of tupperware. I solved the clues, and found the spot. Then, describe the state to the planter if you want to.

In fact, I never even bother to stamp in at all anymore. If I see the SPOR, I'm good. It is a find or not as you want it to be. The only reason standards matter is if you are comparing stats with others, and there is no reason to do that. The other possible reason is maybe you need to jack your F count for restriction purposes or to unlock something, then in that case of course count it.

The answer to the question really comes down to a personal one -- why does one care how it is counted? Then it is easy. Your motivation for playing the game answers the question. Everyone's motivation could be different, so everyone's answer could be different.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925472 by dingus dufus
Apr 29, 2016 4:02am
Thread
I think it depends on the finder. It depends on what YOU as a finder consider a find.

There are really 2 types of finders in this hobby.

For some, a find is following the clues and FINDing the box. Then it's a FIND and the stamp is confirmation. When this type of finder gets to Cranmere Pool, Max Patch, Prayer Rock, an eevil box, a mapsurfer box..., they stamp whatever is in the box as confirmation that the box was FOUND and they are not disappointed that they don't find an original postcard/stamp. A letterbox-finder would consider this a find. [I tend to be more in this camp.] For this particular box, if the finder hadn't read the logbook, the finder would have never known that this was not the original and certainly would have stamped in and considered it a find.

But many view it more about the stamp. [Dingus dufus makes a good point that letterboxing seems to have morphed into this.] They are on a treasure hunt. The stamp (especially a hand-carved one) is the treasure - the heart of the box. A FIND is finding the TREASURE. If a pirate buries a bunch of gold coins and all that's found is a fake coin, this type of finder is very disappointed. This is not a find to them if they don't find the treasure. And the same feeling is true for the finder seeking original hand-carved stamps. When seeking a box with a stamp by a master carver, they will not consider it a find, if the original stamp or an identical replacement (the heart of the box) is not there. A treasure hunter will not count this as a find.

One could have varying views on whether the following are considered a find:
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by an identical replica by the same carver.
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a similar stamp (not a replica) by the same carver.
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a totally different stamp by the same carver.
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a store-bought stamp by the original planter.
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a replica carved by somebody else. (I remember a mstrwndl stamp that was replaced by a very similar carve by someone else.)
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a hand-carved stamp by someone who was not the original planter and it does not look like the original. And what if it was a better stamp then the original?
*The original hand-carved stamp is replaced by a store-bought stamp placed by someone who was not the original planter.
*A well-loved or historic box is replaced by whatever stamp by whomever.
*A not-well-loved box is replaced by whatever stamp by whomever.
*No stamp is in the box.

I think it is important however you count this as a find, to leave a comment reflecting the status of the box, because a treasure-hunter type of finder will be sadly disappointed if they expect a hand-carved stamp and do not find one.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925426 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 5:08am
Thread
As long as you find the box and can stamp your siggy in the lgbk it's proof of your Lbx find. Maybe, you left your personal logbook at home or in the car some distance away. Maybe, the Lbx lgbk is too damp/wet to imprint your siggy or all lgbk pages are full and you don't have a spare lgbk w/baggie to leave in the Lbx. It's still recorded as a find as long as you check "Maintenance is needed" and post a public explanation why imprinting wasn't possible. Not every Lbxr makes an imprint of every stamp they find (e.g. store bought stamp). AQ does not require you to imprint every Lbx stamp you find in your personal lgbk before recording the Lbx as a find.

Throwing in a random stamp to replace a missing stamp may be a nice jesture, but it is BOGUS if not carved by the original owner/carver and they haven't given permission to adopt the Lbx, replace the missing stamp and listing the new owner/carver. Even an unauthorized foster caregiver carver (with good intentions) is pushing the limit with an abandoned Lbx. It's like someone thinking "I have several extra stamps that I use for trading." For all you know that person may have actually removed the original stamp and replaced it with one of their less desirable hand-carved stamps.

I've stopped stamping impressions of hand-carved stamps because the imprint doesn't always do justice (when stamping in the field) to the artist's engraving talent/technique. Instead i take a closeup macro photo of a stamp with side lighting to best reveal the artist's engraved detail. When printing on 4x6 i enlarge the image at least 2X and flop the image so it looks like a mirrored right reading imprint. If different colored pens or inks were suggested i will even color those raised areas accordingly and store them in a 4x6 photo album with info (Title of Lbx, owner, carver, date found) photo printed above top of stamp.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925472 by dingus dufus
Apr 29, 2016 5:12am
Thread
For a box with an unauthorized random replacement stamp, maybe we can call that a ghost box or something. Because we need more words for things in the glossary. Wait, no... zombie box?
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925479 by roo
Apr 29, 2016 5:33am
Thread
That's a really good summary, roo!!

I think it is important however you count this as a find, to leave a comment reflecting the status of the box, because a treasure-hunter type of finder will be sadly disappointed if they expect a hand-carved stamp and do not find one.

Excellent point. I'm one of those folks who think the stamp--whether it's an amazing carve or a store-bought--is the heart of the box. I don't count finds if there's no stamp in the box. So I really appreciate it when people leave an online note that the stamp is missing or been replaced with this or this. I've waded through briars and poison ivy to look for boxes that people have marked as found, only to find (via comments in the physical logbook) that the stamp has been missing for years. An online comment would have prevented nearby squirrels and chickadees from hearing some really bad words.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925484 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 5:46am
Thread
"Ghost box" if it has no stamp. It's dead, but the essence lingers.
"Zombie box" if it has an unauthorized stamp, making it come back to life, but without a soul.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925426 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 5:47am
Thread
I don't think you should remove the box, without permission, as long as there is a hand carved stamp. You could carve a rendition of the original, if you want to improve the box and eliminate future confusion.

Most important, as 2 others have mentioned: PLEASE leave a comment so the next person won't be disappointed. I get annoyed when the person before claims a find, with no message that there is just some crumbled pink crumbs, or the stamp is in 5 water-decayed, unusable pieces.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925484 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 6:11am
Thread
How about a Pod Box?
(Invasion of the Body Snatchers)
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925486 by Rocklun
Apr 29, 2016 6:13am
Thread
I was hoping you'd show us another puppy paw print stamp.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925479 by roo
Apr 29, 2016 6:15am
Thread
I carved replacement stamps for two boxes that were missing their stamps, with the planter's permission. They were carved by a Girl Scout as part of her silver award, so as a GS leader & mom I wanted to help her out & keep the series active. I'm pretty sure my carves were better than hers, but I made sure to carve something similar. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with that?!
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925493 by Grrly Girl
Apr 29, 2016 6:18am
Thread
I was hoping you'd show us another puppy paw print stamp.

I don't mind puppy paw print stamps, maybe because I'm a dog lover. I have an aversion to those jumping frog and smiley face stamps. I'm not sure why I don't like the jumping frog stamp, because I like frogs, but the smiley face stamps are a little too aggressively cheerful for me ("YOU JUST FOUND YET ANOTHER ONE OF ME. BUT YOU'D BETTER SMILE ANYWAY, D-MNIT!").
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925494 by heartsquare
Apr 29, 2016 6:20am
Thread
with the planter's permission

That's the key, for me, at least! :^)
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925426 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 6:27am
Thread
Back before the Corvette museum in Bowling Green Kentucky had a big huge sinkhole in the middle of it, there were some letterboxes planted there. I'm pretty sure that one of them was a replacement. All of the stamps around the building were beautiful carved stamps. Then out of the blue there was a weird Sunshine squiggly stamp on plastic. We still logged it as a find. We found the box. It had a stamp in it. It had a log book in it.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925487 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 10:02am
Thread
"Ghost box" if it has no stamp. It's dead, but the essence lingers.
"Zombie box" if it has an unauthorized stamp, making it come back to life, but without a soul.

Funny yet a great idea! Adding these icons in with Drive-by, Dog Friendly, Hand-Carved, etc. would be a good way of allowing letterboxers to make a decision if a box is right for them.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925486 by Rocklun
Apr 29, 2016 10:12am
Thread
An online comment would have prevented nearby squirrels and chickadees from hearing some really bad words.

Though you have helped yonder camping Girl Scouts to earn their Foul Language merit badges ;)
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925495 by Rocklun
Apr 29, 2016 10:16am
Thread
I have an aversion to those jumping frog and smiley face stamps.

What would you think if someone were to carve a replica of a store-bought stamp?
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925508 by dingus dufus
Apr 29, 2016 11:56am
Thread
Though you have helped yonder camping Girl Scouts to earn their Foul Language merit badges ;)

I helped my GS troop earn that badge after I stepped on a hornet nest during a night hike and got stung 7 times. They heard a bad word every time I got stung. I feel that repetition is key to learning.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925478 by Sir Braemoor
Apr 29, 2016 1:21pm
Thread
Your motivation for playing the game answers the question. Everyone's motivation could be different, so everyone's answer could be different.

I decided to count the find while I was out there, after sitting there for a moment or two pondering. I FELT like I found the box. Well, sort of. This particular box was a pretty good hike, so I needed the reward. At the same time, the original stamp, although store-bought, was a big, beautiful detailed stamp that fit the theme of the box and of the park perfectly. So I took a photo of it with the idea of printing it out and gluing it into my logbook next to the replacement stamp. I've done that before when I forgot my entire backpack and couldn't stamp in. But it sort of leads me to the question of if there was no stamp, but there's an image of a stamp I can photo and glue into my logbook, would I count that? I really don't know.

I would not want anyone to replace my stamp like that without permission. My boxes usually are themed to the location and I put a lot of thought into the stamp design. I wouldn't want someone to open up the box and find a random stamp that has no relationship to what I hid, and think that I put that there. EDIT: If they put the stamp in a baggie clearly marked "this is not the original stamp" and noted this comments, I guess I wouldn't care. I'd actually prefer that the entire box was removed so I can retire it and not worry about retrieving the litter.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925487 by Trailhead Tessie
Apr 29, 2016 3:28pm
Thread
"Zombie box" ain't quite right. What's a good word for someone who's dead and their body has been occupied by an alien or something?
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925497 by crosscresent
Apr 29, 2016 3:31pm
Thread
Aaaargh! At one time there were a bunch of boxes hidden around the Corvette Museum, but all but a couple had reportedly gone missing. So someone asked me to carve a few, and I did, and they got planted there. Then that sinkhole happened, but fortunately apparently my stamps survived. I hope it's not one of mine that's been replaced with something squiggly.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925534 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 3:45pm
Thread
"Zombie box" ain't quite right.

What about a doppelganger?
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925534 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 4:45pm
Thread
Fortunately for you, I watched Lost Girl last night and the fae in this episode was a dead body jumper (occupies dead bodies and walks around in them). The correct term for this type of fae is 'Hsien'.

Warrior Woman
ever helpful
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925534 by Kirbert
Apr 29, 2016 4:46pm
Thread
"Zombie box" ain't quite right. What's a good word for someone who's dead and their body has been occupied by an alien or something?

I'm kind of thinking Frankenstein or Robocop, but I don't know...
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925509 by Oberon_Kenobi
Apr 29, 2016 4:46pm
Thread
What would you think if someone were to carve a replica of a store-bought stamp?

Don't even go there!!
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925541 by Rocklun
Apr 29, 2016 4:53pm
Thread
Carving a replica of a store-bought stamp can't be all bad. The Great Green One took on my store bought sig stamp as a carving challenge and sent it to me - and I'm still using it to this day.
Re: Replacement stamp: Is that a found or attempt?
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #925535 by Kirbert
Apr 30, 2016 7:04pm
Thread
Kirbert-
It was the boxes that were actually planted by the museum that does not have your name or Road Junkies' attached to it. I think the name of it was National Corvette Museum.

NCM: Hall of Fame
&
NCM: Rocking Out to the Little Red Corvette

Those are the boxes that had replacement stamps.

We found these in 2013. No clue what is going on today.