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Re: Early FRIDAY DISTRACTION for 3/13/15
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890769 by Gypsy Fiddler
Mar 12, 2015 1:52pm
Thread
I have even been back on Oahu several additional times and have planted many boxes there

I'm supposed to be going to Hawaii next year with a group of friends. I already told one of them I would have to find a few boxes while I'm there. I'll have to drag her along. She's not a real outdoorsy sort, but I'm sure she'll survive.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890787 by TheKindlyVikings
Mar 12, 2015 2:37pm
Thread
The art (collecting) - Some of it I would collect because I really like the artwork, but if I can't show it off...

Actually in our part of the woods it's okay to show it off, unless it's a mystery. I enjoy looking at other people's logbooks to see all the different ways I can steal to use.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890825 by Wronghat
Mar 12, 2015 2:55pm
Thread
Do you keep a separate logbook for mysteries?

Often it seems that the mystery boxes are the best adventures, and high quality artwork as well.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890828 by TheKindlyVikings
Mar 12, 2015 3:09pm
Thread
We don't. As far as we know, we've planted most of the mysteries in the area due to the proddings of Investigator Francis Bacon. Of course there are mysteries we are unaware of.
thank you Green Tortuga
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Mar 12, 2015 3:17pm
Thread
For adding instructions on how to find a Reserved Box!

FYI, it comes up when you hit Save, on a Reserved box. I can't figure out how to link a pic. Nice!
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890787 by TheKindlyVikings
Mar 12, 2015 3:45pm
Thread
rewards like Blue Diamonds could actually improve our boxes.

Yes, I agree. For my Planter's Choice boxes, I've asked myself, how can I make this logbook more thematic to the carve/location? How can I make the clues more fun, exciting or interesting? What new or clever way can I present the box so that the finder will react with "cool! I want to look for more of their boxes" instead of "meh. Whatever. ?" I'm competing against myself, trying to earn that Blue-D. Have I achieved my goal? Was there something else I could've, should've done?

~J (so HaPpY 'cuz I just saw a Blue-D next to one of my series! THANKS to Kelsung, leenancytanney & MrOspital for taking the time to look for these boxes and thinking them worthy!)
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890830 by Wronghat
Mar 12, 2015 4:41pm
Thread
Those Investigator Francis Bacon were/are fun boxes to solve and find! Where has that pork chop gone!
Boxing motivation
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890787 by TheKindlyVikings
Mar 12, 2015 4:48pm
Thread
What is my motivation for Letterboxing?"

Initially, it was to get my 3 sons outside and enjoying an outdoor treasure hunt.

Now, it is the whole creative process, especially with other people. The numbers don't do a thing for me, but creating a high quality boxing experience (clues, stamp, logbook, location) with another person or getting to go on one of these experiences is awesome. So if I had to pick a competitive feature that seems to most tap into what motivates that, it's likely to be the blue and purple diamonds. It simply narrows down the search to what is mostly likely to fit that. But if it wasn't there, I'd likely just contact local boxers for recommendations (which I still do).
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890586 by Green Tortuga
Mar 12, 2015 7:14pm
Thread
Hmm..... or maybe I can just make them premium member only features.

I really liked this idea, so I changed the finds page to be a premium member perk. Originally, my idea with the F-summary was to kind of make the find page obsolete for the most use purpose it might serve (at least what I used it for most often), but there's nothing on it a person needs to know in order to letterbox and isn't something that was even available for early letterboxers so I don't feel particularly guilty about making it a premium member perk.

But I hate the idea of taking something away without at least giving something back that I'm not particularly fond of (kind of like a trade, I suppose), so I added the total finds and attempts back to the bottom of the list. Somewhat ironically, I found the real reason I removed them in the first place--they were messing up the nice, narrow columns that I wanted to create for mobile devices. If someone had complained about my removing it there at the time, I don't remember, but as soon as I started adding it again and it caused formatting issues, I suddenly realized the main reason I had finally gotten rid of it.

But I abbreviated the numbers with P and F instead of writing it out which gets the columns nice and narrow like I wanted originally anyhow so it seems to work well enough at this point.

Happy trails!

-- Ryan
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890882 by Green Tortuga
Mar 12, 2015 7:20pm
Thread
How can you make all these responses when you're on the Appalachian Trail?
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890884 by Wronghat
Mar 12, 2015 7:24pm
Thread
How can you make all these responses when you're on the Appalachian Trail?

I took some time off the trail. It was exhausting and I needed a break. =)

-- Ryan
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890882 by Green Tortuga
Mar 12, 2015 8:51pm
Thread
so I changed the finds page to be a premium member perk.

So now a non premium members can no longer go to the clue page and see what date they found a particular box. They only know they found it by a green check mark but the only way they can find the date is scroll through their logbook.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890910 by Elle
Mar 12, 2015 9:32pm
Thread
They only know they found it by a green check mark but the only way they can find the date is scroll through their logbook.

I suppose you could look at it as a half-empty glass, but it's also possible they can hover their mouse cursor over the check and see the find date. Half full again! =)

You could also become a premium member.

Yeah, I know, unfair. But from my point of view, it's still not information that I think is pertinent. Nobody has ever made a convincing argument that the date they found a box needs to be on that page. I'll add it back if you can do so, but it's probably a pretty long shot.

Or just wait until I get around to redesigning the series details section of the page. I'm not really satisfied with it as it now and I do want to redesign it.

-- Ryan
Re: Early FRIDAY DISTRACTION for 3/13/15
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890574 by Jiffy
Mar 12, 2015 10:00pm
Thread
How did you “discover” letterboxing?

I discovered letterboxing through geocaching. <boo!> <hiss!>

I've been geocaching since August 2002. I've found some of the "letterbox hybrids" that they have over there and wanted to know what a non-hybrid letterbox was. That was in 2006 and I found some in my area on letterboxing.org. I found my first letterbox (Foul Ball) on 23 Jun 2006. I didn't want to find any others until I had my own stamp.

I carved my first stamp for my annual Delta Pi cache placed on 3/14/2011, so it was a few days before that that I carved the stamp. I carved my personal stamp the same time. I went back and stamped that first letterbox I found on March 25, 2011. I've logged over 100 finds, and I haven't (yet) logged all of my letterbox finds.

This year I'm planting another letterbox on Pi Day (3/14/15). This time it will be a letterbox designed for letterboxers to find as well.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890882 by Green Tortuga
Mar 12, 2015 10:58pm
Thread
I changed the finds page to be a premium member perk.

So I as a planter can no longer see who has found my boxes, which even LbNA has let me see for as long as I can remember. And you announced this 55 posts into a thread most people quit reading days ago.

I'm gonna grab an extra big bucket of popcorn and just sit back and watch the boards blow up for the next week.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890918 by Kelsung
Mar 12, 2015 11:13pm
Thread
I'm just now understanding what this means. Wow. To some people, this is the only record of who has visited their box if something should happen. Logbook damaged. Logbook stolen. Box missing and no way of knowing who visited it last or recently.

It may not always be important, but that seems like something that when it is important, it needs to be there.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890918 by Kelsung
Mar 12, 2015 11:15pm
Thread
So I as a planter can no longer see who has found my boxes

Kind of takes all interest out of planting if you can't even see who found them.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890921 by Elle
Mar 12, 2015 11:23pm
Thread
Oh, you'll still get find notifications in your inbox, and you can always go to the box and read the REAL logbook.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890923 by Kelsung
Mar 12, 2015 11:36pm
Thread
you can always go to the box and read the REAL logbook.

That is if the box is close enough for you to do that and if the logbook hasn't gone missing or gotten wet.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890925 by Elle
Mar 13, 2015 2:42am
Thread
That is if the box is close enough for you to do that and if the logbook hasn't gone missing or gotten wet.

Good point! It certainly removes the motivation to plant boxes while on vacation, particularly in areas one might never get to return to. :-( If you're too far away to check the physical logbook, losing the virtual one is a real blow.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890918 by Kelsung
Mar 13, 2015 5:21am
Thread
So I as a planter can no longer see who has found my boxes

Planters can still see it. I agree that planters should still be able to see everyone who has found one of their boxes. I'm talking about non-planters. Sorry I wasn't clear about that.

-- Ryan
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890882 by Green Tortuga
Mar 13, 2015 5:25am
Thread
There's nothing in any of the listings that a person needs to know in order to letterbox, except the clues. And since when did you start judging features on "well this wasn't available for early letterboxers"? That's usually what other people say, and then YOU say "well just because we didn't have the technology then, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to use it now...." So that criterion seems to be an odd way of deciding what should be a PM-only perk.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890937 by Sheba
Mar 13, 2015 5:40am
Thread
and then YOU say "well just because we didn't have the technology then, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to use it now...."

I'm not saying people can't use it now. Just non-premium members. And I know this is going to upset a lot of non-premium members and they'll complain how they need it but my point is--they don't need it. Letterboxing was thriving before that feature even became available.

My biggest mistake was just making the feature available for everyone for free for so long that everyone takes it for granted. If it started as a premium member perk to begin with, nobody would have said boo about it.

So that criterion seems to be an odd way of deciding what should be a PM-only perk.

How should I decide which features should be premium member perks? If features that aren't essential to letterboxing aren't fair game, then what is? The features that are essential?

Of course, I know the answer to that already.... those who aren't premium members would just as soon not see any features that are for premium members only, but that's not going to happen because they're the ones who've kept this website running for years. All of those features you might like that aren't essential for letterboxing were created with the support of premium members--they paid for them. So yes, I think that's a fine way to decide which features should be for premium members only.

-- Ryan
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890939 by Green Tortuga
Mar 13, 2015 6:31am
Thread
How should I decide which features should be premium member perks? If features that aren't essential to letterboxing aren't fair game, then what is? The features that are essential?

The entire website isn't essential to letterboxing. In fact, no website is. Line drawing debates never end well for those on the wrong side of the line.

If it started as a premium member perk to begin with, nobody would have said boo about it.

Logically, a false statement implies anything. Since its a false statement, tho, its inclusion in the debate doesn't add to it.

those who aren't premium members would just as soon not see any features that are for premium members only

I don't believe this is true. At least it isn't for me. (In fact, I'd like to see _more_ features premium only, such as the counts, diamonds, and hall of fame). I think most non-premium members understand that AQ is in business to monetize the hobby, are ok with that, and understand that the most effective way to do that is to sell premium member perks, ads, and merch. If they had objections to this business model, they would not use the site, and/or would not provide content to it royalty free.

Its much simpler, really. This decision is a price increase without a benefit increase for some people. Just like the ads. There isn't an economist out there who won't say that there will be a brief negative reaction by those affected.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890939 by Green Tortuga
Mar 13, 2015 6:31am
Thread
I'm having a hard time trying to separate what is actually true and what people are assuming since you've made some changes.

First off, I'm a premium member, so I have all the perks, but I have a friend new to boxing, so I don't want to confuse her by showing her things that are not available to her on her own.

True or False?

1) everyone can see the rows of FFFFs and XXXs and the last found date or ratio, like 12/15.
2) only premium members (P-M) can see the entire list of the finders for ALL boxes and dates found, unless owner has decided to hide this info.
3) everyone can see the list of finders and found dates of their own boxes.
4) only P-M have a total count shown of their boxes Finds and Attempts. This is shown at the bottom of the Finder List.

Thanks for all you do!
~J (glad to be a P-M)
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890882 by Green Tortuga
Mar 13, 2015 7:00am
Thread
I really liked this idea, so I changed the finds page to be a premium member perk.

I have now read this thread 3 times and to me, this change was made spitefully. Too bad but I'll adjust - no premium membership for me because I don't respond to that kind of manipulation.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890939 by Green Tortuga
Mar 13, 2015 7:04am
Thread
I like you. (Tips her fruit hat.)
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890941 by Sir Braemoor
Mar 13, 2015 7:06am
Thread
This decision is a price increase without a benefit increase for some people.

Not really. It's more like you're just getting less for the nothing you pay.
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890947 by dingus dufus
Mar 13, 2015 7:33am
Thread
Oh my goodness this is really turning out to be an awful Friday the 13th!! Hoping this is all a prank, please???!!!
Re: F-summary
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #890946 by LuLaHe
Mar 13, 2015 7:43am
Thread
Not really. It's more like you're just getting less for the nothing you pay.

More semantics. Some that want this feature now have to either expend capital for it, or expend labor to get the data it delivers. That is a price increase. A price increase is agnostic to whether consumers are willing to incur it, or forgo the benefits they lose by not paying the increase. Its a simple term. Since this isn't an economics forum, I'll leave it at that.

If "you" is singular (and too bad for the passing for Middle English, when we would know), I'm not getting less, as I don't use the feature in question. I simply find the economic problems in this thread interesting, which is why I have commented in it a few times. If I found the feature was worth its price to me, I would pay for it.