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Re: Exciting Day!
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923214 by SeerMeesh
Apr 1, 2016 12:43am
Thread
I'm a little late, but HAPPY BIRTHDAY Super Gav!!! :) wow! double digits!
YAY!!
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 2, 2016 12:52pm
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I'm starting to sell Younique Makeup. I've qualified as the lowest presenter (white) and have business cards and catalogs on order... hopefully this will help with income since JerBear is looking for a job. Can't wait for school to be out hope to find a few newer boxes around our area...

keep on planting I will be out looking soon inbetween makeovers!!
Re: YAY!!
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923489 by Goofy girl
Apr 3, 2016 5:11am
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Congrats on your new business. :-)
Re: Finally!! The kid particpated happily :-)
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #922606 by crosscresent
Apr 4, 2016 7:23am
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I think my kids finally is liking letterboxing! She came with me yesterday again. We went after a box that I've looked for 5 times now! We were looking for over an hour. We were sweaty and hungry and we all had to pee. I said I was going to give up. And she gave out a loud "nooooooo"! She wanted to keep looking. We finally found it!! She also hot-tailed it off the trail into the woods to look for another one. She was covered in spiderwebs and even got some ants on her. This kind of stuff used to make her really lose her temper. But she was so excited. I checked on the box after she returned it and she did a great job!

Yay!
Re: Finally!! The kid particpated happily :-)
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923591 by crosscresent
Apr 4, 2016 8:20am
Thread
I think it's great that she is finally liking it! My girls would go with me when we started (they were 9 and 11) but that wore off as they reach the teenage years. Now, at 18 and 20, I get the eye roll whenever I mention it. Now, with my 20 year old in college, My 18 year old will humor me but she rolls her eyes and doesn't participate. She also will stay in the car while I look. Funny thing is, she loves hiking, but she cannot tolerate me stopping along the way!
A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 5, 2016 12:58pm
Thread
I am hoping that someone out there with general knowledge of law can point me in the right direction... Our subdivision has an ongoing issue with someone and we've spoken with a lawyer but he used up most of our funds being inefficient and I think it all boils down to a very simple question:

WHY can't an entity [subdivision] vote to do something against the law without first changing the law?

Besides "duh" or "it is irrational" or "obviously improper" or "because that would be against the law". Is there a legal term for it? Or a usual place in our state laws where I should look?

I have been told by multiple sources that such a motion would be invalid, but I need to point it out to someone who is being VERY stubborn. Our lawyer wrote a very nice letter about how it is improper but this lady wants us to quote a law or something and frankly I don't want to pay the guy to waste more of our time.

I also don't want to waste anyone else's time so I am only giving more specifics below in case anyone is curious, wants a good laugh, wants to feel better about their own subdivision, or just wants any old excuse to have a glass of wine on my behalf. Don't feel like you have to read it, and this is the short version anyway.

- Our 30-home association is a non-profit corporation in state of Missouri and our Covenants, which are legally filed with our county, are considered "law" in our case.

- Our covenants list a $600 assessment (which the trustees are allowed to lower any time they want) and then we have a separate charge for common well water which is based on actual costs. There are large paragraphs about each item.

- Five years ago (yes really) the then-President presented a motion to just "charge $500 for both the assessment and the water". That was almost the exact [vague] wording of the motion. I argued that we can't just do that, we have to change the covenants because the motion was in conflict with two sections. She said "No we don't, we can change the covenants later" and continued to insist that we had to vote because someone made the motion. She is a bully and I had never had dealings with someone like that before and didn't know what to do besides just gape at her and then record everything exactly in the minutes since I was the Secretary and there were only a few present at the time. There was a not a quorum present then, but at a later meeting there was and her motion passed. (Don't even ask about our quorum stuff; it is REALLY screwed up but it's a separate issue that lawyers have already explored to no end). I kept trying to explain to everyone that whatever happened with her motion, the trustees could just lower the assessment voluntarily. I didn't say the correct legal jargon at the time because I didn't know what it was.

- About a month later, she motioned to properly change the covenants and the measure FAILED.

- I did not file any changes to the Covenants. How and why would I?

- The other trustee and I, as the majority, ignored her first motion but lowered the amount collected for the next year to the same total anyway because we felt it appropriate for the economic conditions. We didn't combine them; we lowered the assessment to $400 and charged $100 for water (cheap water is one reason why Missouri You Are For Me). We did this the following year as well. She apparently thought we were doing this because of her motion because she cannot seem to differentiate between invoice line items of $400 and $100 and a statement totaling $500.

- Last year, our bank account was not so healthy and so we quit reducing the assessment and charged the normal $600 plus a slightly increased water charge.

- She claims we owe her a refund for overpayment since we should not have charged her $717 last year since we "voted" for a $500 total and she is taking us to small claims court.

- We spent $1500 on a lawyer to review this and unfortunately he took much of the time trying to find our subdivision in the county plat book, exploring whether she gave adequate notice of the original meeting, telling us why our quorum requirement is too high (we know) and generally blustering on about how ridiculous this whole thing is. We know. He did write a very nice letter to her explaining that her motion was improper and invalid, but did not go into WHY. At the time, the new board and I thought his letter was strong enough and we sent to it to everyone.

- She is not the smartest knife in the block but she is cunning, deceptive, and holds a grudge. I have heard that she has filed in small claims court, but the trustees have not yet been notified. Perhaps the judge laughed in her face, I don't know. If it goes that far, the association is required to have legal representation, so it would be costly. We would rather send out more information to all the homeowners that would prove to them that she is wrong so that they will withdraw support from her (she has a small following of people who are in a financial bind or think we collect too much money in advance or allow themselves to be bullied).

So that's what I'm looking for: an "official" reason why a motion to go against a "law" is invalid. So far, everyone just tells me it's a no-brainer.

Thanks for listening, this has been gnawing at me for years now.

If there is a chance I could be wrong, please don't be shy.
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923696 by MO UR4Me
Apr 5, 2016 1:37pm
Thread
Lawsuits against an Home Owners Associate (HOA) are typically costly and complicated and the outcome is always uncertain. Unless the homeowner’s problem with the HOA is a major one, and the facts against the HOA are very clear, a lawsuit is often not worth the time and expense.

So she probably won't be suing over the billing.

If she just refuses to pay up that is another story, see below:

If you own a home, condo, or townhome that is part of a homeowners association (HOA) and fall behind in your HOA dues or assessments, the HOA will likely first try to collect the debt using traditional methods, such as phone calls and letters. If that doesn’t get you to pay up, the HOA will probably try other tactics and may even go so far as to foreclose on your home.
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923696 by MO UR4Me
Apr 5, 2016 5:25pm
Thread
Sorry you are dealing with this situation, but it is fascinating.

Did you find anything in the bylaws that govern the formation of a Homeowner's Association that speak to having to abide by rules in place to be guiding members of the HOA? Sometimes the "ethics" of being in charge of the HOA will help you when someone chooses a path that is illegal, against the spirit of the ruls or is unethical?
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923723 by FORAYCH
Apr 5, 2016 6:38pm
Thread
Oh how I WISH we had a clause about unethical behavior... the only thing we have is about the other trustees appointing a replacement in case a trustee can't perform duties because of death or something. I would have loved a clause like that because years before this person put a lien on someone's home without getting the consent of another trustee first (I was one). I don't believe I had ever been so livid as when I found out.
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923732 by MO UR4Me
Apr 5, 2016 8:38pm
Thread
This person sounds like a real piece of work. I think the legal pursuit is probably a dead end due to cost, etc. I would probably review the HOA formation rules and see what can occur to unseat her from a position of power. There have to be some spin-off groups linked with BOLI or the ACLU that take up claims against some of these types of people in HOAs. Hmmm...I will keep thinking and see if I have friends with ideas. Otherwise you are left with low tech ways of encouraging her to leave, like numerous people for days and weeks on end randomly and intermittently doing bags of poop on fire on her porch and anonymous phone calls at 2am ;)
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923696 by MO UR4Me
Apr 6, 2016 9:12am
Thread
As for a letter to everyone helping to withdraw support, a simple facts bullet point might help.

1. Here is a copy of the agreement we're all bound to. Assessment charge not to exceed $600 depending on (maybe list a few conditions the trustees take into consideration) + actual cost of water. This keeps our HOA afloat, and ensures we are all responsible for our personal water consumption, rewarded for conserving and no one else bears the cost of irresponsible water usage.

2. While a member of the staff submitted a motion to combine and lower costs, this would require changing the covenants. The request to change the covenants was not passed by a majority. Therefore, despite the motion we are still bound by the covenants.

3. We understand that some people may be experiencing a financial hardship. (Offer compromise such as payment plan b/c of the misunderstanding.) We hope to be able to lower the assessment costs again in the future, but this depends on economic conditions. (Maybe briefly explain what these costs help offset)

Do you think that would help at all? Understanding where the money is going and why the price fluctuates might help. It might not, of course, you never can tell with people.
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923753 by Uncorny Acorns
Apr 6, 2016 1:02pm
Thread
Thank you all so much for your input and encouragement. I was following up on FORAYCH's comment and looking up ACLU when I found an ad for justanswers.com - you can ask an attorney a question and pay IF you are satisfied. The fee is between $20 and $60 or so, depending on how fast and how detailed you want your answer. So I chose a $50 level just for my own sanity (plus I have now spent most of my work day on this instead of billable hours) and got a decent answer. At least enough to point me in the right direction.

He said I going against our Covenants (bylaws) would be "breach of contract". He said our options are 1) to file a Declaratory Judgement for a judge to officiallly declare her motion invalid or 2) let her sue us and hopefully win.
I found out that a DJ filing fee is only $48 but there is not a form and it must be a legal petition, the examples of which I found are better to be drafted by a lawyer. :-(

Then I decided to read our state and county laws myself (yawn) and at least learned that:
- State governs our incorporation, which is basically our umbrella which allows us to make bylaws
- Bylaws are a legally binding contract within our County
- Our County has nice guidelines for how to change them but does not point to any laws other than the bylaws themselves
- Going against our bylaws is a breach of contract. Hey, there are those words again...

So I did craft a very complete synopsis of why this lady is wrong and how we will get legal counsel and file a counterclaim if she takes to Small Claims Court and sent it to our current trustees. If nothing else, it's a playbook for our defense in court. (Unicorny, I did incorporate your idea #3; we already had 1 and 2. Thanks!)

Did I tell you that this is all over $571?!!! (But if we owe it to her, we owe it to 29 other people.) And that we have been arguing about this since 2011?

I really need to go letterboxing. But it's raining. And I have clients waiting. But next week...
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923735 by FORAYCH
Apr 6, 2016 1:13pm
Thread
low tech ways of encouraging her to leave

Oh yes, we've been thinking about that for a long time now... but she may have beaten us to it so no one wants to incur her wrath...

After our annual meeting last year when she presented a TWO PAGE motion that actually had one good idea in it but the rest was crap and she did not have a handout for us, we all were sitting there dumbfounded with eyes glazed over. Most realized that we should just not second the motion but then one person answered "seconded". My neighbor accidentally blur ted out "but why?". A few days later, his wife called me (the nature lover) in a panic because there was a dead copperhead snake draped over their [roadside type] mailbox. Like laying to the side of it, all stretched out on the 1" shelf sticking out under the mailbox. My ranger friend said a copperhead probably couldn't/wouldn't do that. The family could think of no other enemies.

Also, the other trustee (who lives next door and has his own issues with her dogs) had a dog get sick after eating something in the yard and has been finding a lot of dead rabbit heads on his lawn. But my ranger friend said that could be from hawks ripping rabbits apart in mid-air and not eating the heads. Ew.

Can't we all just get along?
Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 6, 2016 6:50pm
Thread
Which one do you like?

I am tossing around between a garmin and a Fitbit. The garmin is GPS enabled and waterproof. The Fitbit is more user friendly and has an altimeter. Both do active Heart rates, while the garmin also does resting heart rate and a "get up and move" reminder. The Fitbit has the better app for workout summary.
Also has friend challenges.

I have a polar with chest strap but I'm not loving it. So confused. Need your input.

~Aurora
Re: A simple yet profound law question....
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923776 by MO UR4Me
Apr 6, 2016 7:20pm
Thread
She sounds like a sweet person that any Homeowners Association would love to have in the neighborhood...snakes, poison, stupidity, arrogance and threats. Joyous!! Hmmm...let me know if you need me (or any other boxers) to come up with ideas to help her move on. As my wife and I tell our kids...you want our strong brains thinking of rewards and privileges more than consequences and punishment. We can be very creative, just let us know which direction you want our brains to turn :)

On a serious note, the expense of paying her and 29 other people the $571 makes me think it is wise for further pursuit of good legal support and documentation to encourage her to either back off, act (take things to court) or mediate/compromise. I am guessing you will only get compromise through overwhelming documentation that shows she won't win, which would also mean you would force her to act or back off. So get those documents in place.

The other thing is to get as many homeowners on your side who won't put up with anything she does through force and only will let her ideas move forward IF she compromises. If she is not forced through cattle guards to the slaughterhouse she will keep kicking all of you.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 6, 2016 10:10pm
Thread
The garmin is GPS enabled and waterproof.

While I wouldn't call the Fitbit "waterproof," I would go far as to say it's water "resistant." I've hiked with my Fitbit through many a rainstorm and it keeps on clicking. Although admittedly, I think it's more the tight case it fits in (I have a Zip) that's keeps the water from getting into the access panel in the back. I'm not so sure about those watches.

Another thing to consider.... if you want to use your pedometer with Walking 4 Fun, it supports Fitbits but not the Garmin! =) You'd have to manually type in steps with a Garmin.

-- Ryan
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 7, 2016 4:53am
Thread
Love my Garmin Vivofit :-). I had three Fitbit Zips in one year, and they kept breaking. Supposedly I can link others with Garmin accounts to the app on my phone, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

BB
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 7, 2016 6:46am
Thread
I love my Fitbit. And it seems that Fitbits sync with more apps and websites than most of the other fitness trackers. Walking 4 Fun, for example. :) And if you have a Walgreens Balance Rewards account, you can link Balance Rewards to your Fitbit and earn 20 points for every mile.

TG

FYI - I have the Fitbit Flex. I've had it for over a year with no issues.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 7, 2016 7:10am
Thread
I like my fitbit charge HR. I got it for Christmas and the only complaint i have is sometimes it has trouble syncing with my phone. My mom's fitbit has no problem syncing though.. so it may just be my phone. The HR measures your heart rate (seems pretty accurate for me) and i do like that it links with walking 4 fun =)

They say it is not water proof and i haven't ever been swimming with it, but the occasional splash of water hasn't hurt it so far.. i just clean it off soon as I can.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923825 by Trekkie Gal
Apr 7, 2016 7:13am
Thread
And I want one that doesn't sync all my information so that fitbit can use my personal data and I'm not having much luck. Anyone know of one that works solely for the user? Fitbit is already releasing data they've collected, and though they claim it's data in aggregate and therefore not a privacy issue . . . well, whatever.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923817 by Bungalow Boxer
Apr 7, 2016 9:57am
Thread
Love my Garmin Vivofit :-). I had three Fitbit Zips in one year, and they kept breaking.

Gotta agree here. My Fitbit batteries died constantly. My Vivofit is going strong after four months and I never have to take it off...it truly is waterproof. It has gone swimming with me and into the shower and hasn't missed a step.

As Ryan mentioned, one big drawback is that it doesn't sync with Walking4Fun so I have stopped using that feature and miss it.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923835 by Janila
Apr 7, 2016 11:20am
Thread
See now, I bought a Garmin Vivofit and the battery died a month later. Replaced the battery, but the battery died again a month later. Took the Vivofit back to the store and exchanged it. A month later the display messed up, and a few days after that, the battery died. I really liked my Vivofit while it was working.
This Day in History
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 7, 2016 12:39pm
Thread
Sorry to say that Wayne rogers is unable to celebrate his 83rd bday since he died on 12/31/15.
Re: This Day in History
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923840 by J Walkers
Apr 7, 2016 12:45pm
Thread
He may be celebrating somewhere...LOL
Re: This Day in History
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923840 by J Walkers
Apr 7, 2016 3:17pm
Thread
Sorry to say that Wayne rogers is unable to celebrate his 83rd bday since he died on 12/31/15.

Hopefully he is celebrating with my dad who would have been 88 today. He passed away on 7/15/15.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 8, 2016 12:37pm
Thread
I prefer the Garmin. I log too many miles to bother with just counting steps. But if you need to count steps because getting steps is the goal then that's your option. The farming logs my miles, all gps location and that works for me.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923801 by The hicks from the sticks
Apr 8, 2016 12:41pm
Thread
I have a Garmin, a Timex with GPS and a Tom Tom and I like them all!
This day in history: Betty Ford
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 8, 2016 5:11pm
Sadly she will not be celebrating her birthday today, here on earth, as she departed 5 years ago.
Re: Fitness trackers
Board: Yakking It Up
Reply to: #923817 by Bungalow Boxer
Apr 10, 2016 1:43am
Thread
As an FYI, FitBit customer service is pretty good about replacing defective trackers.
Awwww...
Board: Yakking It Up
Apr 10, 2016 9:39am
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Poor Haley Joel Osmet.......now he is know as a drunk driver and not as an actor?????? and on his birthday too.