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Read Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!

Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950509 by Booshmen
Aug 25, 2017 3:06pm
Thread
For all you know, maybe they specifically omitted the number for some reason.

Like to be puttink und klue to und other box.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950513 by Wronghat
Aug 25, 2017 7:55pm
Thread
You did notice my use of the word 'arbitrarily', right? Because you basically described, to the letter, all of the things normally expected from a letterbox 'finder'... Literally the polar opposite of 'arbitrarily'.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950527 by Booshmen
Aug 25, 2017 8:01pm
Thread
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — Inigo Montoya,
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950528 by Wronghat
Aug 25, 2017 8:21pm
Thread
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — Inigo Montoya,

You mean this?
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950506 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 8:21am
Thread
It's just part of the package - the container, the spot, the carve, the name, the number

Nope. The first things in this list describe the essence what a letterbox is; the number is an artefact of one particular website's implementation of the game, and does not contribute to the essence of a letterbox.

Now, I don't care if people want AQ numbers on their boxes, or if they "arbitrarily" (or otherwise) write numbers in mine. Go for it if you think it is useful. But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of it.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950544 by Sir Braemoor
Aug 26, 2017 9:12am
Thread
But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of it.

I mostly agree, but when one website is dominant in the hobby then it will predominate in defining what that hobby means. Note: I used "predominate" not "dictate".
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950544 by Sir Braemoor
Aug 26, 2017 4:58pm
Thread
Nope. The first things in this list describe the essence what a letterbox is; the number is an artefact [sic] of one particular website's implementation of the game, and does not contribute to the essence of a letterbox.

At least in my post I qualified my my remarks as being opinions. You state them as some sort of fact. Maybe you have cite, some appeal to authority, that could clarify the matter?

In my opinion, if you hide and name a box then list it on a particular repository website that automatically assigns it a number then that number is just as much a part of what that box is as any of its other attributes. If you choose, for example, to list it on your private website and not on AQ then I agree with you. Or if you choose to list it on AQ but choose not to use the number, that's certainly your perogative too. And I applaud the way you play the game. It doesn't however mean that there is some bright-line definition of what constitutes what is a box attribute or not.

Cheers.
:)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950557 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 7:20pm
Thread
well i would not dare to interpert sir braemoor's statement.

however, i do feel safe expressing what a letterbox is. a letterbox is a stamp and a logbook placed in a container and hidden for others to find. simplified version. i am sure if you want the actual detailed explanation you can find it on the history of messages on the yahoo lbna group or lbna itself, probably here on aq as well. if you do research the matter please be aware that there are those of us that are purist and do feel that logbook is necessary. another subject all together.

in that light the number is not necessary in order to be a letterbox. the stamp is necessary, the logbook is necessary, the container is somewhat necessary, the name is somewhat necessary. the number is not necessary, unless of course you are naming your letterbox a number. most sites will use numbers in order to not confuse their databases, i get that. that does not mean it is a necessary part of the letterbox.

smile
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950546 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 26, 2017 7:26pm
Thread
i might be wrong by i do not think that ryan gave the clues numbers with the expectation that they must be used. it is not the website or ryan that predominates the defining of what letterboxing is. it is the letterboxes themselves. there seems to be a trend of i want it now...... i want it fast. from everything start (looking up the clue) to finish (logging the find).
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950563 by uneksia
Aug 26, 2017 7:46pm
Thread
I have avoided commenting on this subject until now. (Unless I've forgotten that I've already commented on it. ;-) I'm mostly going to agree with uneksia.

however, i do feel safe expressing what a letterbox is. a letterbox is a stamp and a logbook placed in a container and hidden for others to find. simplified version. [Comments on searching for history.]

Agree. I think that almost all will agree with this.

please be aware that there are those of us that are purist and do feel that logbook is necessary. another subject all together.

Well, another subject could be started, but since you brought it up I'm going to comment. While I think that a logbook should be in at least one box in a series almost all of the time, there are times when the letterbox cannot reasonably contain a logbook and be expected to survive long. In some of these cases the letterbox should be moved to a better location (by the planter). Other times a naked or commando stamp is fine.

in that light the number is not necessary in order to be a letterbox. the stamp is necessary, the logbook is necessary, the container is somewhat necessary, the name is somewhat necessary. the number is not necessary, unless of course you are naming your letterbox a number.

True. However, to have a general letterboxing site (not a personal one) some sort of simple, unique identifier ("ID" hereafter) is necessary to look up a letterbox. The name of the letterbox could be the ID, but then each name would have to be unique. The ID could be hidden from users, but the ID would have to exist. In the case of AQ a number is used for the ID. If someone cares about this ID then they do. I personally write down this ID in my logbook with the stamp image, name, date of find and sometimes some other things.

Even on a personal letterbox listing site you can think of the URL as the unique identifier. In this case you could give several letterboxes the same name but still have a different URL.

Either way, there will be a global unique identifier (unless you get into your own Domain Name System) that could end up changing over the lifetime of the letterbox.

If you want to avoid having an ID then you'll have to put your clues on paper or other such un-indexed writing medium. Anyone for carving clues in stone? What about casting a clue in concrete then leaving it where someone will find it. That sounds like rock painting, which could also be used to distribute clues.

Well, that was a novel.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950557 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 7:55pm
Thread
Maybe you have cite, some appeal to authority, that could clarify the matter?

You mean like... maybe if there were some book on the subject, he could quote the author???

bwahahahahaha
oh help, I can't breathe....
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950564 by uneksia
Aug 26, 2017 8:14pm
Thread
OK, let's step back and get some perspective.

My intial remarks were responding to Kirbert's opening question, the first post in this thread. It was:

" 1) Would it be helpful to anyone if the log book in a letterbox provided the AQ number for that box?"
I offered some examples where it might be helpful and clearly called out in boldface that they were my opinions.

"Quoth Sir Braemoor:
But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of [AQ#s]. "


"Quoth uneksia:
i might be wrong by i do not think that ryan gave the clues numbers with the expectation that they must be used."


No where in any of my posts did I claim that I was trying to define the game in terms of AQ's numbering system. Nor did allude to it in any way. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Also, nowhere in any of my posts did I claim, say or insinuate that they "must" be used. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Kirbert asked for opinions, I gave one - that's all. With that, I'll leave it to you.

Cheers.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950568 by Sheba
Aug 26, 2017 8:24pm
Thread
You mean like... maybe if there were some book on the subject, he could quote the author???

bwahahahahaha
oh help, I can't breathe....

It was a joke of course. I learned everything I know about humor from Ryan. Ha ha.

;)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950569 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 10:40pm
Thread
No where in any of my posts did I claim that I was trying to define the game in terms of AQ's numbering system. Nor did allude to it in any way. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Nevertheless, the discussion drifted that way.

My reply (novel) was to someone's statements who was also commenting on the direction that the thread was going. This has been an interesting discussion to observe and (only recently) participate in.

Do we think that it has reached dead lemur status yet?

Fortunately, I've never seen an application of Godwin's Law on these (AQ) forums.
It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Apr 7, 2019 3:22pm
Thread
I have heard of the legendary travels and great box count of Wanda and Pete. Today while doing some box maintenance and looking through one of my logbooks what should appear before my bulging eyes ***wait for it**** the signature "stamp" of yes indeed, Wanda and Pete.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973898 by Elle
Apr 7, 2019 3:24pm
Thread
I love when Wanda finds my boxes, she always writes a nice little note.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973898 by Elle
Apr 7, 2019 4:14pm
Thread
I will have to box my whole life to catch up to them and I'll still never be anywhere close. Wanda has a secret sense. I swear, she can just go to a box. It's impressive and she's so quick on her feet! It's an inspiration to get more in shape.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973932 by RIclimber
Apr 8, 2019 7:26am
Thread
Online logging is against the spirit of letterboxing somehow.

Not just online logging is against the spirit of letterboxing but so are drive-bys, temporary plants, events with more than a few boxes, gatherings with more than 25 people...

Letterboxing has morphed much since the old timers started it here in the states and woe to the newer generation who are not playing by those early rules. There has been many a recipient to get a tongue lashing and the promise of a boycott.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973932 by RIclimber
Apr 8, 2019 9:08am
Thread
They (she) believes that the only time you should know if someone found a box is by visiting that box.

Whatever. That would prevent me from planting more than 5 miles from my house and thus limit my finders to about -- two. Maybe.

Isn't having an actual sig stamp part of LB tradition? And WOM clues?

Houston proper covers 669 sq. miles and 42,335 square miles in the summer. Find logs help folks decide where they can reasonably box in the amount of time they have to do so, while still getting home before their next birthday.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973933 by Three FLAmigo's
Apr 8, 2019 2:38pm
Thread
...but so are drive-bys...

You need to find a couple of my drive-bys! Sometimes I feel bad about listing them as drive-bys since the drive is a real adventure! I've got one drive-by in which the drive is a 15-mile round trip that includes driving through flowing water over a spillway on a dam.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973963 by Kirbert
Apr 8, 2019 2:53pm
Thread
If people don’t want to find a plant as a drive by, they can always walk to it!
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973947 by Dawgdok
Apr 8, 2019 10:40pm
Thread
And never with a date on it either .. lol ...
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973933 by Three FLAmigo's
Apr 9, 2019 12:40am
Thread
There has been many a recipient to get a tongue lashing and the promise of a boycott.

That nastiness towards people giving events is very uncalled for. I'm so surprised that anyone would do that to you Three FLAmigo's, your event was so much fun!!

Those giving events work extremely hard to give their events and they aren't rewarded with the same finds that their attendees receive. Times are changing and I'm so glad they are different from the old days!!

I love going to events!!

I mostly box alone and travel alot. Because I'm alone and handicapped, I do mostly drivebys. I do my own research & puzzle solving. All this adds to my fun.

At events I get to meet the letterboxers that I have communicated with on Atlas Quest. Events are my chance to box with other letterboxers and the more stamps, the more fun I have. I can actually do the trails too because I'm with others on the trails.

I stopped doing very many tabletoppers, event boxes, or HIPS because I want to be on the trails or socializing, and events are my chance. I have nothing against those letterboxes. It's just not my primary interest.

So in comparison, if someone doesn't like the way an event is run, don't come and don't try to ruin it for the rest of us who do like these events. Boycott away, that's your prerogative, but don't be sending your nasty emails to the event coordinator, they don't need it or deserve it. They are what keeps letterboxing alive for many of us!!

A big Thank You to all of you Letterboxers who are doing events and providing easy trails for those of us who can't do long trails.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973987 by LCAB
Apr 9, 2019 4:07am
Thread
Well said, LCAB!
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #973963 by Kirbert
Apr 9, 2019 9:48am
Thread
I have a similar box - the first one I ever planted back in 2005: Box #6564. You have to drive through the creek 14 times. As you said, it's the drive to the drive-by that is the adventure!
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #974000 by Boxer Lover47
Apr 9, 2019 6:46pm
Thread
I like the prospect of finding a box of yours, but I read the clue. That is NOT one I would try in my car.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #974110 by mudflinginfools
Apr 13, 2019 1:45pm
Thread
I'm sorry that it happened to you too!!

You've been great about sharing your event stamps with several of us to plant. I have been able to plant trails using your stamps in Florida & South Carolina on my way North. I'm so glad that I made it to your LL Bean event this year too!! So, so much fun & lots of Letterboxers to meet & hang out with.

You've been very good at keeping letterboxing alive and available to many of us who aren't as mobile as others. Thank you for all that you and your team have done.

It's hard to hear that so many of you have received negativity from anyone with all the hard work you put into our hobby!!

I guess there will always be negative people who don't like or accept change & they're always the loudest to speak out and ruin things for others. It will be fun to see you at any events & I certainly hope I do!!

Thank you for helping to make letterboxing what it is today - fun, fun, fun!!
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #974180 by Wry Me
Apr 15, 2019 4:29pm
Thread
Here are some more facts about our interesting hobby and traditions. Over there in Dartmoor, they have plants close to the road and easy to find, even without clues (the equivalent of our drive-by's, yeah?), places without a 100 Club post their clues online, they have charity events where you pay for clues and essentially make a loop finding boxes, they charge for their clue book and you have to prove you've found 100 boxes on the moor first, longer hikes and more challenging hides are for grown-ups and experienced boxers. They also have discussions about box maintenance.

So if you really want to go old school: no mystery boxes, use grid references on a park map with or without compass headings and landmark clues, keep your clues WOM, or have it added to the continually updated clue book that you have to earn and PAY for, and be sure to plunk a custom stamp in the box. Organize an event where you raise money for a charity by charging for the clues to the boxes and then plant them in a small loop around town.

Also, apparently so many of the boxes are so easy and convenient to find, you can get your first 100 without clues, just to show 'em you're serious. Why don't they allow ALL people to access the clues? Why did they make so many of them short strolls instead of long hikes? What? No hand-carved stamps? No mysteries or puzzles? We have to PAY for the clues? Seems even the founders can't get it right. Heh.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #974195 by Wry Me
Apr 15, 2019 5:16pm
Thread
So just some feedback based on our experiences in Dartmoor.

they have plants close to the road and easy to find, even without clues

We found zero boxes close to the road, most of them are planted around the Tors (of which there are a lot) and rock formations. Although there are quite a number planted inside of bars, restaurants, shops and camping businesses so maybe that is what you are referring to?

they charge for their clue book and you have to prove you've found 100 boxes on the moor first

When we contacted the woman who "sells" the clue books, she did not ask for proof we'd found 100 boxes. She made it very clear she asked for payment only to cover the cost of the annual printing of the clue books. I'd asked for the next year's book (because of when our fist trip was scheduled) and she accidentally sent me the preceding year's print. When she discovered her error, she immediately sent the correct version before I'd received the first one to know there was an error.....she would not accept payment for the second book (offered to help defray the printing costs).

Why did they make so many of them short strolls instead of long hikes?

We hiked, a LOT; although on rainy days during several visits, we did do the drive-bys planted in buildings, etc.

apparently so many of the boxes are so easy and convenient to find, you can get your first 100 without clues

This part is true, we didn't manage to attend an "event" but we did run into a couple of families of boxers who were gracious enough to explain the easy way to find boxes while Dbare (who's an engineeer and therefore to be forgiven) "putters" as the moms put it.

What? No hand-carved stamps?

Not entirely but the preponderance of those we found were store bought.

Hopefully people find this information useful.
Re: It's True!
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #974199 by Public Hand
Apr 15, 2019 7:00pm
Thread
Wry Me wrote:

What? No hand-carved stamps?

Public Hand replied:

Not entirely but the preponderance of those we found were store bought.

So much for those who want us to return to the traditions of those who started letterboxing. Or did they just want us to return to the origins of letterboxing in the USA?