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Read Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!

Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950361 by Kirbert
Aug 22, 2017 6:44pm
Thread
i have been thinking on this subject since i first saw the post and trying to remain objective. not succeeding. i keep thinking why? i have no problem with progress, i have no problem with technology. have had a computer since 1977. what i have a problem with is handing the world to someone, anyone, on a silver platter.

i for one do not want to be reduced to a number. i put a lot of thought into my planted boxes. the stamp. the location. the clue. and the name of the letterbox. the name of the letterbox is just as important to me as any of the aforementioned. i do not only list my plants on aq, i also list them on lbna. there are those that do not use aq and are not likely to.

presumably if a person has found my box they have clues printed from aq or lbna. if that is the case they have the name of the letterbox. if they have found the letterbox by accident is it really any harder to write down the name of the letterbox and the planter than the number?

i leave a comment in 99% of the letterboxes i find. i appreciate the comments that finders leave in my logbooks. in my most humble opinion having a finder write down the aq number of the box in my logbook is not a comment, it is an insult. do they think i am an irresponsible planter? that i don't know what numbers are? that my plant is incomplete because i have not included a number? do they think of me as a number instead of a person? i could go on and on but i think i have made my point.

i do not want to be reduced to a number.

smile
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950418 by uneksia
Aug 22, 2017 6:54pm
Thread
i do not want to be reduced to a number.

You've got me remembering "The Prisoner"

Number Six: Who are you?
Number Two: The new Number Two.
Number Six: Who is Number One?
Number Two: You are Number Six.
Number Six: I am not a number! I am a free man!
Number Two: [laughs]
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950420 by Wronghat
Aug 22, 2017 7:55pm
Thread
You've got me remembering "The Prisoner"

Number Six: Who are you?
Number Two: The new Number Two.
Number Six: Who is Number One?
Number Two: You are Number Six.
Number Six: I am not a number! I am a free man!
Number Two: [laughs]

Here is the opening sequence of the second episode.

And a video with similar sentiment.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950420 by Wronghat
Aug 22, 2017 8:46pm
Thread
And, of course, the Iron Maiden song for which that quote provides intro :)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950420 by Wronghat
Aug 22, 2017 9:51pm
Thread
A recent Puzzled Pint set was themed on The Prisoner.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950418 by uneksia
Aug 23, 2017 1:27am
Thread
i do not want to be reduced to a number.

As #1, I can tell you that you're #60--which is a fine and respectable number and one you can be proud of! But I'll always call you uneksia. ;o)

Your number, after all, isn't actually your name!
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950429 by Green Tortuga
Aug 23, 2017 2:53am
Thread
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950422 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 23, 2017 7:17am
Thread
Oh My what memories..... I watched that faithfully in another lifetime!!!!!!

Thanks!
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950429 by Green Tortuga
Aug 23, 2017 7:30am
Thread
I can tell you that you're #60....

I have to admit, I thought I was being funny. But not a single funny click. *sigh* I really should leave the funny posts to Wassa.

-- Ryan
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950429 by Green Tortuga
Aug 23, 2017 7:38pm
Thread
which is a fine and respectable

well dang! there went my reputation!

smile

p.s. have to say... there is only one uneksia :)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950409 by Janila
Aug 24, 2017 6:47am
Thread
I've done that also, chance the date.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950400 by Janila
Aug 24, 2017 5:31pm
Thread
I agree, AQ#s on stamps and/or logs at events are very helpful. Most HH's, Fleas, Cooties, etc. would be much easier to log with AQ#'s listed as well.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950418 by uneksia
Aug 25, 2017 7:50am
Thread
presumably if a person has found my box they have clues printed from aq or lbna. if that is the case they have the name of the letterbox. if they have found the letterbox by accident is it really any harder to write down the name of the letterbox and the planter than the number?

i leave a comment in 99% of the letterboxes i find. i appreciate the comments that finders leave in my logbooks. in my most humble opinion having a finder write down the aq number of the box in my logbook is not a comment, it is an insult. do they think i am an irresponsible planter? that i don't know what numbers are? that my plant is incomplete because i have not included a number? do they think of me as a number instead of a person? i could go on and on but i think i have made my point.

i do not want to be reduced to a number.

In a perfect world maybe... :)

I'm really not seeing how having the AQ number that is assigned to the box, on the box as an identifier, "reduces" anyone to a number. It's just part of the package - the container, the spot, the carve, the name, the number, etc. Now, as someone who prides themselves as getting every other part of your boxes correct, you may conclude that adding the number is redundant or somehow takes away from the experience. And in your case you might very well be right. But in the messy real world it can often be a good thing.

For example, we once found a box where the hider/carver had put a wood backing on the stamp and had glued a paper on the backing. All the box info was on that paper. They were clearly trying to do things as well as could be expected. Unfortunately the glue failed and all of the box info had delaminated. We found the paper nearby (and returned it to the box) but it was worse for wear and barely legible. A number on the box in that case would be helpful to future finders.

Another time we found a box exactly as the clues described, but... the image and name was from another listing that was supposed to be about a thousand yards away (which we could not find). We weren't sure which box to log, a number would have been a big help.

Then there is the situation of a very popular tourist spot we visit often. Between AQ and LbNA there are about 4 boxes listed in a 30-40 foot area. We found one of them... but didn't know for sure which one - the carve didn't match any names and there was not a number on it.

We found a HH once and had a devil of a time running down its listing. Its listing name and the name that was written on the actual stamp was similar but not the same, a number would have helped. Also there is a thread on the front page right now where a number would have solved the mystery of a listing.

Everyone plays the game in their own way and we all have our likes and preferences and I love that about letterboxing. And I'm certainly not trying to sway you one way or another, just pointing out that are are legitimate reasons for adding numbers in some cases. And that identifying your hide by number need not have negative connotations.

All of my above opinions are regarding putting the AQ# on your own box, I would never alter someone else's box unless specifically asked to!

Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950361 by Kirbert
Aug 25, 2017 8:16am
Thread
As a few others already mentioned, I think it would be presumptuous as hell for anybody to take it upon themselves to add ANYTHING to someone else's letterbox. Personally, I put my boxes out for one reason... for other boxers to find, log in, re-hide, and then move on with their day. Not for people to alter based on their own opinion of what they think a letterbox should be. Honestly, if someone did this to any of my boxes, I would be pissed off and annoyed. I would also try my hardest to find out who did it, so I could send them an angry email telling them how much of a presumptuous a**hole I thought they were. My 'petty' side would also probably compel me to go out and 'alter' some of their letterboxes in return... Bottom line, besides being pointless in my opinion, it just takes a special kind of jerk to go around thinking they're the letterbox 'police', altering boxes. For all you know, maybe they specifically omitted the number for some reason. And although I can't really think of a reason why you would do that, I also can't think of any logical reason why ANYONE would take it upon themselves to arbitrarily add ANYTHING to a box they don't own.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950509 by Booshmen
Aug 25, 2017 1:24pm
Thread
I also can't think of any logical reason why ANYONE would take it upon themselves to arbitrarily add ANYTHING to a box they don't own.

People always add an image of their signature stamps, and usually a comment or two. Sometimes they add a hitchhiker. If someone puts the box number as part of a comment (i.e. really loved #66666), how can I get upset?
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950513 by Wronghat
Aug 25, 2017 1:43pm
Thread
I also can't think of any logical reason why ANYONE would take it upon themselves to arbitrarily add ANYTHING to a box they don't own.

People always add an image of their signature stamps, and usually a comment or two. Sometimes they add a hitchhiker. If someone puts the box number as part of a comment (i.e. really loved #66666), how can I get upset?

Well that's just plain funny and I'd outta know because old Turd knows funny
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950509 by Booshmen
Aug 25, 2017 3:06pm
Thread
For all you know, maybe they specifically omitted the number for some reason.

Like to be puttink und klue to und other box.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950513 by Wronghat
Aug 25, 2017 7:55pm
Thread
You did notice my use of the word 'arbitrarily', right? Because you basically described, to the letter, all of the things normally expected from a letterbox 'finder'... Literally the polar opposite of 'arbitrarily'.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950527 by Booshmen
Aug 25, 2017 8:01pm
Thread
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — Inigo Montoya,
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950528 by Wronghat
Aug 25, 2017 8:21pm
Thread
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." — Inigo Montoya,

You mean this?
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950506 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 8:21am
Thread
It's just part of the package - the container, the spot, the carve, the name, the number

Nope. The first things in this list describe the essence what a letterbox is; the number is an artefact of one particular website's implementation of the game, and does not contribute to the essence of a letterbox.

Now, I don't care if people want AQ numbers on their boxes, or if they "arbitrarily" (or otherwise) write numbers in mine. Go for it if you think it is useful. But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of it.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950544 by Sir Braemoor
Aug 26, 2017 9:12am
Thread
But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of it.

I mostly agree, but when one website is dominant in the hobby then it will predominate in defining what that hobby means. Note: I used "predominate" not "dictate".
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950544 by Sir Braemoor
Aug 26, 2017 4:58pm
Thread
Nope. The first things in this list describe the essence what a letterbox is; the number is an artefact [sic] of one particular website's implementation of the game, and does not contribute to the essence of a letterbox.

At least in my post I qualified my my remarks as being opinions. You state them as some sort of fact. Maybe you have cite, some appeal to authority, that could clarify the matter?

In my opinion, if you hide and name a box then list it on a particular repository website that automatically assigns it a number then that number is just as much a part of what that box is as any of its other attributes. If you choose, for example, to list it on your private website and not on AQ then I agree with you. Or if you choose to list it on AQ but choose not to use the number, that's certainly your perogative too. And I applaud the way you play the game. It doesn't however mean that there is some bright-line definition of what constitutes what is a box attribute or not.

Cheers.
:)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950557 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 7:20pm
Thread
well i would not dare to interpert sir braemoor's statement.

however, i do feel safe expressing what a letterbox is. a letterbox is a stamp and a logbook placed in a container and hidden for others to find. simplified version. i am sure if you want the actual detailed explanation you can find it on the history of messages on the yahoo lbna group or lbna itself, probably here on aq as well. if you do research the matter please be aware that there are those of us that are purist and do feel that logbook is necessary. another subject all together.

in that light the number is not necessary in order to be a letterbox. the stamp is necessary, the logbook is necessary, the container is somewhat necessary, the name is somewhat necessary. the number is not necessary, unless of course you are naming your letterbox a number. most sites will use numbers in order to not confuse their databases, i get that. that does not mean it is a necessary part of the letterbox.

smile
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950546 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 26, 2017 7:26pm
Thread
i might be wrong by i do not think that ryan gave the clues numbers with the expectation that they must be used. it is not the website or ryan that predominates the defining of what letterboxing is. it is the letterboxes themselves. there seems to be a trend of i want it now...... i want it fast. from everything start (looking up the clue) to finish (logging the find).
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950563 by uneksia
Aug 26, 2017 7:46pm
Thread
I have avoided commenting on this subject until now. (Unless I've forgotten that I've already commented on it. ;-) I'm mostly going to agree with uneksia.

however, i do feel safe expressing what a letterbox is. a letterbox is a stamp and a logbook placed in a container and hidden for others to find. simplified version. [Comments on searching for history.]

Agree. I think that almost all will agree with this.

please be aware that there are those of us that are purist and do feel that logbook is necessary. another subject all together.

Well, another subject could be started, but since you brought it up I'm going to comment. While I think that a logbook should be in at least one box in a series almost all of the time, there are times when the letterbox cannot reasonably contain a logbook and be expected to survive long. In some of these cases the letterbox should be moved to a better location (by the planter). Other times a naked or commando stamp is fine.

in that light the number is not necessary in order to be a letterbox. the stamp is necessary, the logbook is necessary, the container is somewhat necessary, the name is somewhat necessary. the number is not necessary, unless of course you are naming your letterbox a number.

True. However, to have a general letterboxing site (not a personal one) some sort of simple, unique identifier ("ID" hereafter) is necessary to look up a letterbox. The name of the letterbox could be the ID, but then each name would have to be unique. The ID could be hidden from users, but the ID would have to exist. In the case of AQ a number is used for the ID. If someone cares about this ID then they do. I personally write down this ID in my logbook with the stamp image, name, date of find and sometimes some other things.

Even on a personal letterbox listing site you can think of the URL as the unique identifier. In this case you could give several letterboxes the same name but still have a different URL.

Either way, there will be a global unique identifier (unless you get into your own Domain Name System) that could end up changing over the lifetime of the letterbox.

If you want to avoid having an ID then you'll have to put your clues on paper or other such un-indexed writing medium. Anyone for carving clues in stone? What about casting a clue in concrete then leaving it where someone will find it. That sounds like rock painting, which could also be used to distribute clues.

Well, that was a novel.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950557 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 7:55pm
Thread
Maybe you have cite, some appeal to authority, that could clarify the matter?

You mean like... maybe if there were some book on the subject, he could quote the author???

bwahahahahaha
oh help, I can't breathe....
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950564 by uneksia
Aug 26, 2017 8:14pm
Thread
OK, let's step back and get some perspective.

My intial remarks were responding to Kirbert's opening question, the first post in this thread. It was:

" 1) Would it be helpful to anyone if the log book in a letterbox provided the AQ number for that box?"
I offered some examples where it might be helpful and clearly called out in boldface that they were my opinions.

"Quoth Sir Braemoor:
But I do draw the line at attempting to define the game in terms of one website's implementation of [AQ#s]. "


"Quoth uneksia:
i might be wrong by i do not think that ryan gave the clues numbers with the expectation that they must be used."


No where in any of my posts did I claim that I was trying to define the game in terms of AQ's numbering system. Nor did allude to it in any way. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Also, nowhere in any of my posts did I claim, say or insinuate that they "must" be used. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Kirbert asked for opinions, I gave one - that's all. With that, I'll leave it to you.

Cheers.
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950568 by Sheba
Aug 26, 2017 8:24pm
Thread
You mean like... maybe if there were some book on the subject, he could quote the author???

bwahahahahaha
oh help, I can't breathe....

It was a joke of course. I learned everything I know about humor from Ryan. Ha ha.

;)
Re: AQ Numbers
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #950569 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 26, 2017 10:40pm
Thread
No where in any of my posts did I claim that I was trying to define the game in terms of AQ's numbering system. Nor did allude to it in any way. Nor do I believe that is the case.

Nevertheless, the discussion drifted that way.

My reply (novel) was to someone's statements who was also commenting on the direction that the thread was going. This has been an interesting discussion to observe and (only recently) participate in.

Do we think that it has reached dead lemur status yet?

Fortunately, I've never seen an application of Godwin's Law on these (AQ) forums.