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Thanks CR but we weren't about to let one of these crazy....
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2886 by Dee and Abby
Mar 11, 2005 5:59am
Thread
Oh Oh Wait a minute! Crazy Folks..... hummmmm well it seems to me I heard a story about this little girl driving like a MAD WOMAN to SMYRNA then to MARIETTA and then BACK
to her WORK, being 6 minutes LATE mind you from her LUNCH HOUR, I might add!!! So Miss Dee, are you SURE you want to call these folds crazy!!! LOL LOL HE he.he ;~0 :~)

Now Dee you know I am kidding you. I can do this because I have been in your shoes. LOL.... Remember my story about the Berry box's! LOL>..... ;~)

CR
Re: Thanks CR but we weren't about to let one of these crazy
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2887 by Cherokee Rose
Mar 11, 2005 6:38am
Thread
I know I'm as crazy if not more than the rest of these folks! NO Denial here! LOL
But I still didn't want one of these other crazy folks getting FF, I love CR's FF prizes!!!
L & N Depot PLB
Board: Region: Southeast
Mar 11, 2005 10:10am
Thread
I am searching for the L & N Depot PLB. I sent it to Daniel Quinney in West Jordan, Ut. on Feb 28th and it arrived there on March 2nd, but I have not heard any confirmation or anything since. I have posted to the "Big" board and to our SE group with no answer. So if anyone knows how to get intouch with Daniel or maybe has the box please please let me know.

Thanks

Cherokee Rose
Re: L & N Depot PLB
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2891 by Cherokee Rose
Mar 11, 2005 10:48am
Thread
You might post your concerns and message to the postal letterbox list on both Atlas Quest and Yahoo groups.

I am very sad to hear the box status is up in the air.

Hope you find it soon.

Silly ol Bear
Red Ribbon Day
Board: Region: Southeast
Mar 12, 2005 5:31pm
Thread
We got our red ribbon today and got bumped up a notch on the Hall of Fame page. yippee!

-Red's Bunch
Re: Boxes in North GA mountains?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2819 by KitCat
Mar 12, 2005 6:24pm
Thread
Thank you, everyone, for the helpful comments!! It's sounding like there's a good chance I can place boxes in some of our favorite spots without undue fear of breaking the rules. Good! Now I just need to scout more spots and write some clues. Carving will be the fun part! (As if it's not all cool!) Don't hold your breath, because I barely have time to hunt boxes these days, but I am looking forward to providing some more reasons to visit the mountains. :)

I know the distance from here and the hikes involved will mean I can't check them as often as I would otherwise, but I think I will still be able to get up there fairly often. I love boxes that involve a lovely, but break-a-sweat sort of hike. We tend to box in single and double finds, rather than trying to pack a ton into one trip. Guess that's why we're still only at F13! :)

I plan on providing a heads-up about bears and hunters in my clues, but thank you for the reminder! I have to remember that lots of boxers may not have a lot of experience with the area.

Ooh, I'm getting all excited about placing, now. Wonder if I should start with a local box, just to get my feet wet?
KitCat
Re: Red Ribbon Day
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2924 by Reds Bunch
Mar 12, 2005 7:18pm
Thread
That is so cool! Congratulations on RED, RED!

CR
AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Mar 15, 2005 5:18am
Thread
It is often said that "Imitation is the best form of flattery". Is this true in the letterboxing world?

What I mean is, would you be happy if another boxer created a clue that was similar to yours? what if it was a mystery clue? would it be okay if they asked permission?

For example, would Red be upset if someone created another "Restless Dreams" type box? or Eli & Aubrey be upset if there was another "Prisoner" clue out there? or would they be excited because someone else liked there clue style so much that they created a similar one for others to experience (maybe in a different part of the country).

Or should we all be challenging ourselves to create new and different styles of boxes?

Just curious what everyone thinks.

BBB
Sig Stamp
Board: Region: Southeast
Mar 15, 2005 5:51am
Thread
I carved my sig stamp last night!!! No more store bought for me!!!!
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2962 by Boxing Bee Bunch
Mar 15, 2005 9:32am
Thread
I'm stickin my nose in from California. I asked Ryan before we copied his SLO Walking Tour letterbox clue code. Since that time we have used it several times and some folks have copied our use of the code as well. We have used similar types of code as well, and we even have one mystery type LB that only specifies that you have to check other letterboxers' property to get the key. In that one we list the trail names of the letterboxers. I think that it is best to ask, but since we asked Ryan, no one has asked us and that is ok by us.
Don
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2962 by Boxing Bee Bunch
Mar 15, 2005 11:05am
Thread
Quote What I mean is, would you be happy if another boxer created a clue that was similar to yours? what if it was a mystery clue? would it be okay if they asked permission?

***snip***

Or should we all be challenging ourselves to create new and different styles of boxes?


My short answer, yes. To both ideas.

My longer answer is that there is rarely anything new being done when it comes to clue writing. Every idea I ever came up with has probably been done before, and I'm certain will be done again somewhere else. All you can really do at that point is try to do it as well or better, and make it an homage of sorts. I don't see the need to ask "permission" to do things in a similar style to what's already been done.

Should we try to create new and different styles? Absolutely. And the best place to start is by looking at what good things have already been done and doing something similar. With our own twist. And maybe after adding something or taking away something we've found ourselves a whole new thing.

Every good idea or artistic endeavor was built on all the good ideas or artistic endeavors that preceded it. It works that way in art, music, writing, cooking, rubberstamp art, software design, politics, electronics, healthcare, education... and so on.

There are limits. I don't think imitating "style" is plagerism, but someone without much creativity of there own may end up taking their duplications too far. There is probably an invisible line that shouldn't be crossed. I think we'd be doing the polite thing by getting "permission" when we start getting close to that invisible line. For example, it would be okay to use a cyper, but I think it would be tacky to use the exact same cypher key used in someone else's clues. Even tackier if both sets of clues are for boxes in the same region. Or state. Or county. Or park.

As for those who are trying very hard to be creative with their clue-writing, my guess is that they are out to beat what's been done before, rather than duplicate it. Same goes for carving, log-book making, and hiding letterboxes. "Competition" of this sort benefits everyone.

-Red
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2962 by Boxing Bee Bunch
Mar 15, 2005 1:16pm
Thread
Quote It is often said that "Imitation is the best form of flattery". Is this true in the letterboxing world?


I have these same thoughts about hiding boxes. Part of the fun is going someplace new to find a box. But what about when there are multiple boxes hidden in one park? Does it detract from the originalityof the first hiding place, or does it just attract more visitors b/c there are more finds to be had? Maybe some of both...

What do you all think?

sweetiesmom
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2971 by sweetiesmom
Mar 15, 2005 2:09pm
Thread
Quote But what about when there are multiple boxes hidden in one park?


I had those thoughts back when I first started placing. One of the notes in my logbook announced that the person was going to plant more boxes in that same park. I was immediately nervous, thinking that might be "overkill," but I reserved judgement, because at the same time I was thrilled there was anyone else in the area interested in planting at all!

As it turned out, she led me to two different areas of the park that I wasn't familiar with, and she did a really nice job of tying the box theme into the spots the boxes were hidden. So from then on, I pretty much try to trust the other boxer to find good spots.

And that park's the one we had the gathering in, so now there are even MORE boxes in there!

DebBee
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2971 by sweetiesmom
Mar 15, 2005 2:50pm
Thread
Quote Does it detract from the originalityof the first hiding place, or does it just attract more visitors b/c there are more finds to be had?..sweeties mom...


I think it really depends on the area. Some parks are huge and can handle multiple plantings. Some are so small it would be flooding/forcing the area with them, then it might take away from the 'originality'.

I do think the more boxes in an area the more visitors will head that way.



Quote I was immediately nervous, thinking that might be "overkill," but I reserved judgement, because at the same time I was thrilled there was anyone else in the area interested in planting at all!...DebBee ...


Do you think you might have felt less nervous if she asked if you minded first rather than announce it in your logbook? In your situation it worked out great. I wonder though about folks that have planted and intended to add boxes to a location and someone moving in and "taking over". Then the other person might not be able to finish their series.

I think there will be a lot of different views on this. Some might feel slighted because no asked if they minded. Some might not realize there is a box there already. Some folks might just plain old stake out their territory and who knows what would happen. Everyone is different and will react differenlty. I imagine that I would write and ask the person if they minded before setting out and planting. I would not want to take away from someone else's project.

Other folks have planted in the same parks that we have. One person did not realize since they did not yet solve one of Red's crazy clues. One did not see it listed before they headed out on their journey. The other, I am just not really sure how that one happened. My guess is that the box wasn't published until later. I did not have hurt feelings because other folks planted there. It did not in anyway take away from the boxes that we planted. I am pretty sure Red would agree.


Just some thoughts, no real opinion one way or the other, on another interesting topic.

Silly ol Bear
Re: Sig Stamp
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2963 by Brook
Mar 15, 2005 3:26pm
Thread
Good job Brook looks good but neds to be bigger on your profile page. I believe it is a Tiger? If so be sure to get my PT at the next SE gathering.

Boxdn
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2962 by Boxing Bee Bunch
Mar 15, 2005 3:49pm
Thread
It's going to happen to everyone once or twice. I've have great ideas for stamps to find out after starting the series someone was doing the same thing, but they are in a different part of the country so no biggie. Then I had carved a small series and then found out someone posted clues to the same area with the same stamp.(those stamps are still sitting on the shelf) One of my mystery boxes has a box planted spitting distance from it but the planter didn't know and still doesn't. I've planted in parks that had Mysteries but would never compromise the mystery. I do believe there is a limit to how many boxes a certain area should have but that number would different for each place. When I planted Box#14-VT I didn't know there were so many boxes already there and one so close.
So any imitations I may have done came from trying to be original.:o) The only letterboxing item I claim to be copy writed would be my P stamp, anything thing else feel free to copy.

Boxdn
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2976 by Silly Ol Bear
Mar 15, 2005 5:16pm
Thread
Quote Do you think you might have felt less nervous if she asked if you minded first rather than announce it in your logbook?


Hmmm. If she'd asked, I'd probably have expressed my concerns, and that might have talked her out of planting there, since we didn't know each other at all then. That, as it turned out, would have been very bad, because her boxes are a great addition to the park.

DebBee
Re: AQ - LBSE - Topic for Discussion - Imitation?
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2978 by BOXDN
Mar 15, 2005 8:17pm
Thread
Speaking of Vt # 14... Just wanted you to know I recieved the replacement log book and will plant it soon!

CR
Re: Sig Stamp
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #2977 by BOXDN
Mar 16, 2005 3:36am
Thread
Actually, the tiger on my page isn't the stamp. I tried to put my stamp on there, but I guess it is too big.


Brook
Re: Sig Stamp
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3009 by Brook
Mar 23, 2005 12:20pm
Thread
Hmm...funny-today my sig stamp is showing up in my bio! Go figure!

Brook
One-Day-Only Letterbox in Georgia!
Board: Region: Southeast
Mar 23, 2005 1:53pm
(My apologies for the cross-posting. I think this is an important enough message to warrant it!)

Hello friends!

I know I've been MIA for a while, and I hope you'll soon see why.

Tomorrow is Blue Giraffe's 5th birthday. Five years ago tomorrow,
something went horribly wrong with my pregnancy, and I ended up in
an ambulance and later delivering a one-and-a-half pound baby via
emergency c-section. He and I are both very lucky to have survived
and to be as healthy as we are.

That "something" that went wrong was preeclampsia, and I had it
again (although not as severely) when I was pregnant with Little
Turtle. Many of you know that I am now the Georgia Group
Coordinator for the Preeclampsia Foundation. On MAY 7, we're having
our First Annual Walk-A-Thon to raise awareness and research funds
for the disease. The Atlanta walk will be one of over 15 walks
around the U.S.

So, onto the FUN part! I am planting a one-day-only box in an area
near the Walk-A-Thon site in Norcross. The ONLY way to get these
clues is to register & walk! I am carving a special stamp and
making an extra-special logbook for this box, and the stamp will
only be available to those who participate in the walk. (PLEASE do
not treat this as a WOM box.)

Lastly, many thanks to Mark, who has provided a site for interested
boxers. http://www.geocities.com/dividedeye/clamp.html

I look forward to seeing a lot of you on the trail!

Hugs,
Lady Buzz
Re: Sig Stamp
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3105 by Brook
Mar 23, 2005 7:17pm
Thread
Hmm...funny-today my sig stamp is showing up in my bio! Go figure


How did you do that?
NC permitting
Board: Region: Southeast
Apr 14, 2005 1:11pm
Thread
I was and still am appauled at the permit fee's now required in NC state parks for geo's and LB's.
I sent an email to Crowders Mountain..... Please Read
I can not believe that your parks have implemented permits for geo-caches and letterboxes! I live in Georgia and would not visit your parks for any reason other than to find letterboxes! Now I will not ever visit your park. I know here in GA the parks make money off of parking and rentals of picnic shelters, cabins, etc. Letterboxers have gatherings, we rent these picnic shelters & cabins. We pay for parking and donate to the parks, not to mention our tax dollars (or NC residents) pay taxes!

You have only made it so letterboxers & geo-cachers will not want to visit your park! $35 to plant a Tupperware container is a bit much! We all know this is about money and has nothing to do with protecting the environment... (which by the way letterboxers are very cautious of)

I feel grateful that I do not live in your state!<i/>

Response
Good afternoon!

My name is Walt Gravley and I am the West District Superintendent for
the NC Division of Parks and Recreation (DPR). Your complaint concerning the DPR's activity fee for Geocaching (letterboxing) was forwarded to me by Crowders Mountain State Park Superintendent Joe Sox. I appreciate your interest in our state parks and for taking the time to write us with your concerns. Please forgive me for responding
so informally but I am doing so since only your e-mail address is available to me.

Obviously you are passionate about the activity of Geocaching and I realize this is an increasing popular recreation activity. Having an appreciation for our natural heritage, I can understand the appeal this has for people wanting to couple their technology skills with the great out of doors. It is not our agency's intent to stop this activity, but to put in place measures that will allow us to manage both the safety and resource damage problems that arise with this new sport.

It appears you are aware of our policy requiring a Special Activity Permit (SAP)and fee in order to practice this activity within our park lands. The SAP was seen as a way to place some basic controls on the activity to avoid the problems that were occurring within our parks. Examples of problems we were experiencing included: the placing of Geocaches (letterboxes) in environmentally sensitive areas, and the disturbance/damage of ground cover from caches being buried or covered with rocks, plants, etc. Also, false trails are created as people visit popular caches left in place for long periods. Inappropriate items were also a concern. We have had situations where prescription and/or illegal drugs were placed in a cache. The National Park Service has prohibited Geocaching for these reasons. Many other natural resource agencies consider caches as litter and treat it as such.

The development of a SAP policy was seen as a way to allow this recreational activity and still meet our mandate to protect the park resources. We involved a number of our staff in developing a policy to assist us in managing this activity, including those that participate in Geocaching. Please understand the person placing the cache (letterbox) within the park is the only one required to pay the fee. There is no cost for those participating in the search. Also, note that the permit fee is waived for Virtual Caches.

Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions concerning Geocaching (letterboxing) North Carolina's state parks. My contact information is:

e-mail: Walt.Gravley@ncmail.net
telephone: (704)528-6514)
mail: NC Division of Parks and Recreation, West
District Office, 159 Inland Sea Lane, Troutman, NC 28166)

Thanks you,
Walt Gravley

My Reply
Dear Mr. Gravely,

I understand concerns about the environment and potentially dangerous items placed in a geocache. Letterboxes however ONLY contain a logbook and a rubber stamp (nothing else)... In addition our letterboxing rules state:

"Respect the land when hunting boxes and when hiding them. Don't place a box that requires people to tramp through sensitive wildlife or plant habitat to find it, for example. Warn hunters of possible hazards in the area of the box in your clue notes. Use common sense. If you have any doubts, ask the landowner or manager, or simply choose another location for your activities. Adopt the Leave No Trace principles of outdoor etiquette. Remember, some lands have restrictions on land use; know them and observe them."

My concern is that people just won't plant in your park. Seeing as how we occasionally plant several boxes in the same parks, no one can afford this! At least not people who are boxing! $30 every 3 months, this means a box costs $120 a year to leave in your park!

Just mark my words... boxers WILL stop coming! If GA were to start doing this I would have to quit boxing... that means I would RARELY visit the parks!

I will let you know what happens from here! If anything!

Dee
Re: NC permitting
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3541 by Dee and Abby
Apr 14, 2005 7:20pm
Thread
Dee,

Thanks for your efforts on behalf of all us NC boxers. I think the bottom line is that they don't get that a box in, say, Crowder's Mtn. park might sit there for four weeks at a time with no action. When we found Jen's box as FF, it had been there for about three weeks already. Depending on the amount of traffic in a given park, a box could sit there for that 3-month period with absolutely no action, as you well know.

Now the state is planning to put a new park in Hickory Nut Gorge near Chimney Rock and we're supposed to be all excited about it. Well, guess what? If I drive out there, I'll pay the $14 to go to Chimney Rock and get Munchkin Stamper's seven boxes! So there! ;-)

Thanks again. Looking forward to meeting you at Paris Mtn.

Knit Wit
Re: NC permitting
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3566 by knit wit
Apr 15, 2005 9:01am
Thread
No Problem Knit Wit! I feel this is an important issue and I don't want to see it spill over into other states as well.
The response I received from Walt this morning...
Good afternoon,

You make some good points that were considered when developing our policy. Unfortunately, not all of those participating in this recreation have the same ethic as you or follow the same rules. In my response I just gave you some of the problems we encountered leading toward implementing some reasonable control. For example, we have removed several caches located on the edge of dangerous cliffs or waterfalls. Located in such a manner that encouraged participates to risk falling to reach the cache. Many young people participate in this activity and are willing to take such risk to obtain their goal. Visitor safety is a paramount concern for us.

I want you to understsand our policy and management of this recreational activity is on a trial basis . We will review this activity over time and, depending on the incidents encountered, decide whether to put in place a more lenient policy.

Again, thanks for your interest and for bringing your concerns forward.

Walt


All lboxers might want to email him with their concerns as well. Seeing as how they plan to discuss this again at a later date, I beleive if they see that boxers (which they know numbers are growing) will not visit their parks in droves, they may see the errors of their ways.

Who knows, can't hurt!!

Dee
Re: NC permitting
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3586 by Dee and Abby
Apr 15, 2005 12:37pm
Thread
Quote In my response I just gave you some of the problems we encountered leading toward implementing some reasonable control.


And they think that price is "reasonable"??? I can understand their wanting some say over where caches and boxes are placed, and I can even understand charging a small one-time fee, since a ranger's time would be taken up working with the planter to get the box/cache in place, but that kind of cost is just crazy! And to have it come due evern 3 months is even crazier!

DebBee
Re: NC permitting
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3598 by DebBee
Apr 15, 2005 2:08pm
Thread
Quote I can even understand charging a small one-time fee, since a ranger's time would be taken up working with the planter to get the box/cache in place, but that kind of cost is just crazy! And to have it come due evern 3 months is even crazier!


Unless the charge is set high to discourage placers...then the cost probably makes perfect sense, to them.

Maine Mom of 123Family
First Finders for the first time!
Board: Region: Southeast
Apr 18, 2005 5:05am
What a wonderful way to start the weekend! I got first finder's for the first time ever! The box had been there for a couple of weeks and I just didn't have the time to go seek it out. I was SURE that SOMEone had found it and just hadn't gotten around to posting the find. Sooo-I decided I didn't care-I wanted that box!

I drove out there-and found the spot-and saw something odd about the box. I carried the box a ways away and then I opened it up and learned I was first finder! Well, it is a good thing there was noone else ANYWHERE around-because everything I was holding went flying as I did the first finder's dance! I am afraid I was a very undignified first finder! With my stuff scattered all over the place (quite literally) I called the owner of the box to let them know!

I was shaking head to foot and had to calm down a few minutes if I was going to be able to stamp in and have it actually LOOK like something other than a blue blob on the page. Sooo-I chatted with the box owner who MUST think I am totally insane by now and then when I got off the phone I was almost calm enough to st...err...oh dang! My stamp and stamp pad and log book and pen had gone FLYING when I did my dance! There would be ABSOLUTELY NO stamping in until I sought them out in the places they had landed!

Sooo-another 10 minutes of searching around the site for my stuff-and to clean all the debris off the bottom of my stamp (did you know that stamps have this uncanny ability to attract leaves and stuff to them?) and then I GLADLY stamped in-now covered head to toe MYSELF in blue ink! (Anyone who has ever gone boxing with me KNOWS I get covered in ink every time-but this was a bit extreme even for ME!).

Anyways, I am all stamped in and the box is safely back when it belongs and I didn;t even get pulled over from my oddly shaking car going down the road as I continued my first finder dance all the way home and on through the weekend-even singing the first finder song! Yep-there IS a first finder song that seems to go quite well with the dance. Though it must look funny, because my dear sweet kitty wanted NOTHING to do with me when I got home-his eyes got this wild look and he RAN AWAY FROM ME!!!!!

Brook
Welcome to AQ, She Who Plants!
Board: Region: Southeast
Apr 27, 2005 2:21pm
Thread
Hey! I see that She Who Plants is adding boxes to AQ! Woohoo! Welcome aboard, SWP!

Amyrica
Re: Welcome to AQ, She Who Plants!
Board: Region: Southeast
Reply to: #3816 by Amyrica
Apr 27, 2005 3:58pm
Thread
My brother-in-law lives in Nashville. I see we need to pay him a visit.

Weyrwoman