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Welcome!
Board: OpenStreetMap
Jun 2, 2014 5:00am
Welcome to the AQ OpenStreetMap board! Any subject relating to OpenStreetMap is suitable for discussion. If you're not familiar with OSM, start by checking it out:

http://www.openstreetmap.org

Tip: Before saving that link as a bookmark, zoom in on the map to your own region. Then when you save the bookmark, it'll save that location as well.

Membership at OSM is free. You can, if you wish, use the same trailname you use here on AQ -- or you can use a different one for anonymity.

Editing OSM maps is fun and gives a feeling of accomplishment, but the editors (there are several) are powerful and take some getting used to. On this board we can discuss tips and tricks we've learned to make editing easier.

Note that editing roads on OSM is a snap. When you click on "edit" it brings up the existing OSM map with a satellite view for a background. Often it becomes obvious that the roads are shown in the wrong place! In just a few minutes you can shift them around, moving one "node" at a time, until they correspond with reality. Everyone who uses a map based on OSM maps (and it seems to be most maps these days!) will thank you.

Editing foot trails is more problematic because they often are not visible in the satellite photos. For these situations, the thing to do is to actually go out and walk the trail while carrying a GPS device that will record a "trace" of where you've gone. Upload that trace to OSM and use it to create a map of that trail.

Don't have a GPS device? Well, if you have a smartphone, you probably do. For Android devices, you can install a free app called Vespucci that enables you to edit OSM maps from your smartphone and it also features a GPS trace function. Turn it on and go for a hike! If you've gotta hike the trail to find a letterbox anyway, you might as well!
Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Jun 2, 2014 5:59am
Thread
One other thing I hope this board will bring about is people offering to edit maps for those who don't feel up to tackling it themselves but would like something fixed. Right now, I'm making that offer: If you zoomed in on the map on OpenStreetMap.org to your own neighborhood and realized that it's messed up, just send me an e-mail with the URL of the map of your neighborhood and I'll take a look at it. If I can see the roads on the satellite photo, I can move them around. Remember, though, that I can't see road NAMES on the satellite photo, so if you want road names changed you'll need to describe which roads should be named what.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850827 by Kirbert
Jun 2, 2014 6:07am
Thread
Is there a way on OSM to put trail in different colors? This might be useful in places where there are more than one trail with different colors. I'm trying it out, but am confused on how this works.

BB
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850829 by Bungalow Boxer
Jun 2, 2014 8:48am
Thread
The last time I edited a map (about a year ago) the only thing you could do was change the "type" of trail. Around here, there are so many mistakes in the type and location of roads and trails that it would take years to fix. That's part of the reason I gave up.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850829 by Bungalow Boxer
Jun 2, 2014 9:10am
Thread
I don't believe so. OSM has its hands full coming up with different lines for a couple of dozen different types of roads as well as hiking trails, horse trails, biking trails, you name it. You can NAME the trails, though! So I guess you could name one "Blue-blazed trail" or something like that.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850855 by RIclimber
Jun 2, 2014 9:25am
Thread
Apparently OSM began by loading something called TIGER data into its database. Whatever it was, apparently it was all wrong. There are arguments over whether it would have been better to start from scratch. Really, though, I think a user-edited system like this had to start with something. It's one thing to look at a map and say "that's wrong", it's quite another to look at a blank screen and figure out where to start.

One of the things that's looking up is apparently the use of the satellite photos when editing. Apparently, as I understand it, that wasn't always the case. People were asked to do GPS traces for anything they input, but running a GPS trace is another learning curve -- and could be really challenging before smartphones -- so evidently some people just drew in roads freehand about where they thought they should be. It's tempting to just delete those horribly-misaligned roads and start over, but remember that they often have the names of the roads, something you can't get from the satellite photo. So, whenever possible, I like to either pull that existing road to the correct location, or make a note of the street name before deleting it and drawing it in anew.

One other thing you'll run into a lot is roads that consist of zillions of nodes. OSM is all about the nodes; a road is just a string of nodes in a row. If you want to depict a road that's dead straight for a mile, all you need is two nodes, one on each end. To go around a curve, you need to put in enough nodes that it looks like a gentle curve rather than a series of sharp corners. But some of the existing stuff has waaaay more nodes than it needs, and sometimes they're not lined up right so the road looks all distorted. Sometimes nodes will even get pulled back over one another, resulting in what's called a "Zorro", where the road looks like it zigzags back and forth. The handy tip to know: You can reduce two sequential nodes to one by just clicking on one and dragging it to the other. In a matter of a few seconds, you can take a section of wretched-looking road with a dozen nodes and make it a straight section of road defined by only two nodes.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850863 by Kirbert
Jun 2, 2014 1:19pm
Thread
The problem here is whenever there was an error, someone just added the correct path of the road, without removing the wrong one! Most of this has been fixed over the past year.

I'd been focusing on hiking trails. Almost nothing there to correct, and I have always worked with a GPS track. I hike with a Garmin 60CSx so uploading the track isn't any extra work.

When done right it's great. Check out the huge state park near ZIP 02043.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850863 by Kirbert
Jun 2, 2014 8:56pm
Thread
Apparently OSM began by loading something called TIGER data into its database. Whatever it was, apparently it was all wrong. There are arguments over whether it would have been better to start from scratch.

Not ALL wrong, but often horribly misaligned. TIGER is the US Census Bureau's Topologically Integrated Geographic Encoding and Referencing database, containing features such as roads, railroads, rivers, as well as legal and statistical geographic areas. (From above link, with editing.)

One of the things that's looking up is apparently the use of the satellite photos when editing. [...] People were asked to do GPS traces for anything they input

Yes, I used to drive around to get good GPS traces to align the TIGER data to actual roads. The satellite photos are from Bing, which isn't quite as up to date as Google's data, but the Bing data is available. I also trace new roads from these images and trust that someone (maybe me) will fill in the names later.

But the satellite photos don't work well for trails that are under trees, so I still do those (that I hike) using GPS traces. I trace what I can then get the names from local trail maps. You can't get names from Google or other map sources, but I use the names from city web sites. I'm pretty sure that those are allowed.

However, I use Google as an "Enigma solution". During WWII, the Allies wouldn't use information gained from transmissions encoded with the Enigma machine directly; they would arrange for an aircraft to "accidentally" discover the troop or ship movement so that the Axis wouldn't know it came from an Enigma code break. (They sent out "misses" on purpose too so that the "hits" wouldn't be obvious.)

I find out from Google that there is something that needs to be mapped. I won't use this directly, but I will find some other source for the information. I'll first see if it is on the satellite maps used by the editor. If not, then I'll go and map it with GPS traces. For names, I'll go and find it directly or find some government web site that has the name. The US Census Bureau has some data newer than what was first uploaded, but I forget how to access it. (It's out there somewhere.) I think that this Enigma solution is also allowed.

The handy tip to know: You can reduce two sequential nodes to one by just clicking on one and dragging it to the other.

I've been editing for a long time and I didn't know this. I just select the node and hit the "DELETE" key.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850971 by Oberon_Kenobi
Jun 2, 2014 10:30pm
Thread
The satellite photos are from Bing, which isn't quite as up to date as Google's data...

The default satellite photo is from Bing, but there are about four others to choose from. When editing, the toolbar at the right has an icon for selecting the background image. Datawise, so far I haven't found one to be significantly better than another, but sometimes the terrain you're trying to make out shows up better in one pic than another. For example, sometimes one has a pic that was taken in early morning or something and there are shadows everywhere, while one of the other images shows it more clearly.
Re: Offer to Edit Maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #850974 by Kirbert
Jun 2, 2014 11:29pm
Thread
The default satellite photo is from Bing, but there are about four others to choose from. When editing, the toolbar at the right has an icon for selecting the background image.

I knew that it was somewhere and figured that Kirbert would be able to find it. Thanks!

I'm sure that you mean the menu at the upper-right, because that's where I found it. I found four types of aerial images, but the agricultural is significantly lower resolution, when available. Any of the US ones can be copied from since (except for some special cases) none of the US Government (public) data can be copyrighted. So that will be a source for names that I want to add to new streets.

The aerial images match the GPS traces that I've done so I trust them. The topographical maps appear to be off quite a bit in my area, but consistently offset. I won't be using the them for for tracing images but I can use them for place names. However, before the other aerial maps came along I used the agricultural maps (which are also off in this area) so I just offset my tracing (of mostly rivers) by the known error (which I got from my GPS traces). I could use this for trails that I can't see on the aerial images.

I'm very glad that you created this group Kirbert. I've been editing for quite a while, but I've learned a few things in the last few days. I could ask in the mailing list but that has such a large volume.
printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Aug 14, 2019 7:29am
Thread
I was able to print OSM in the past but not now. Is it still possible. Could it have anything to do with the recent Windows 10 update? I find several things have changed with that update.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978350 by Sagacorn
Aug 14, 2019 8:01am
Thread
Up front: I have never tried printing OSM maps...

What I do.. is use screen captures / shots whatever you call it... CTRL Prt Sc on my computer... and then save that in MS Paint or what have you... after that you can edit the image to fit your need... sometimes a section for a day trip / box hunt... on paper... or if you don't have a smart phone like me.. I store the image in a digital camera for field reference... be it an OSM map or an air photo... Of course you can do the same with a smart phone or anything that you can stick a USB stick into for images...

I guess that someday I might break down and get a phone someday... and I mean phone... been without since 2005 and haven't missed it... use a friends when I need to but don't overdo it. Might get a simple cellular radiotelephone though... now over 70 and it gets really lonely out there in the bush when you think you are in trouble... just saying...

But overall, it is an interesting point... did something change... and at what point.
At OSM, at your point of contact , software and so forth... so I'll be looking at that.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978350 by Sagacorn
Aug 14, 2019 8:33am
Thread
OSM?
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978352 by SherlockMiles
Aug 14, 2019 11:42am
Thread
OSM... like in the board and group Name... OpenStreetMap.

This is an open mapping site where people can add to and enter new plots of information to the map database... some you can use and some you don't need but someone else might like it...

Putting it in is fairly easy, but sometimes getting it out is hard... hah!

In this case the OP wants to print the map they see... but they say that the print is not working... I mentioned one way to get it if they can see it on screen... but agree that direct to printer sounds better... I have not tried and my printer is down...

I also asked if they could say where exactly they were trying to print from...
the OSM site, some other map source or just from their computer... that would help see the problem... but.. til then.

They really do make nice maps... but remember that the system allows people to create their own using the data... I get maps from one site... for use in my GPS... which is getting old... the problem I run into is that their maps have way to much data from the site that I cannot see or use in my GPS but that is my problem... and one reason why I only input really basic stuff into the database and let someone else edit my entries... which I can often not see the results...
which is sad... but it's my GPS limits not the map's...
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978353 by 7rxc
Aug 14, 2019 1:42pm
Thread
I was curious and googled and joined. I put several real addresses into the search and got no results found?

I use google maps but I was curious about this one.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978350 by Sagacorn
Aug 14, 2019 1:55pm
Thread
OpenStreetMaps is all about editing the database, not about actually making any use of it. For using the maps, they offer a listing of various applications:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Using_OpenStreetMap#Ready-made_online_maps

On my phone, I use MAPS.ME which allows me to save state maps on the SD card and therefore not have to download data every time I want to use it. This is helpful out in the woods where I can't get reception.

Here's something funny: Google Maps is very strict about unlicensed use of their map data, but OpenStreetMaps is very clear that anyone is free to use theirs. People who look stuff up on Google Maps in order to edit OSM are likely to get in trouble, and if OSM hears about it they will delete those updates. But Google Maps clearly uses OSM data in their maps! I've entered stuff before to have it not only appear on OSM maps but appear on Google Maps as well.

They're both useful. Google Maps even includes property lines in some areas, which is great when you're off-road.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978350 by Sagacorn
Aug 14, 2019 5:00pm
Thread
Like 7, I’ve not tried to print them but also like 7 I just take a screen shot and print that. Much easier for me and I can adjust the contrast in PS and get a better map if I choose.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978353 by 7rxc
Aug 14, 2019 5:23pm
Thread
To answer 7's question......I'm trying to print from my computer. I can print by grabbing a snip and them Print from file but it only prints a very small part of the page. I've tried landscape and portrait w/o any more success.
I don't use my phone for this stuff I'm of the 'using paper maps' age. I can plot my lb'ing route easier that way. Thanks to all for any help.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978358 by Sagacorn
Aug 14, 2019 8:52pm
Thread
I was poking around over there this afternoon while having lunch...
for the direct site, it was just about as I said..., cut out and print elsewhere...
They did have some stuff in the Using Maps Wiki... I have to go back in for the names, but there seems to be a few programs that can handle files exported from OSM (see Export) and print them... One advantage of that might be size... in the Export function you can set geodetic style boundaries... and tell it to export. Then you take that file into the other software and print away... but a bit much to digest at the same time as gulping down food... and drink...

I'll still try to do one... using my method... I got one file saved as a PNG image... and will play with it... that is screenshot from OSM site. but really pale... which is a complaint many had... and no way to change it... for printing... thus the outside programs... After I do some rough playing with this one for results visually, I will grab a few more and try joining them up with some to the north of the first...
using an image editor...

The big problem is seeing names and such... paper doesn't zoom in and out like images do... that led to my using the camera or cell phone method... just get them to the size you need and in the device... I often have an area shot for getting to the area... then a closer image of the area... and then a zoomed shot for the close in trails... and when I know how to get there, I do a matching 'satellite' shot that may or not be... I prefer the term ground photo... but it doesn' matter.. except for the final approach but seeing landmarks is handy...

Good luck

Oh! I don't mind 7 for brevity... but the trail name is 7rxc... it's the last part of my HAM callsign... VE7RXC which I cut down for brevity... hah! From BC Canada.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978355 by MissMoon
Aug 14, 2019 9:07pm
Thread
As Kirbert says it isn't about using the maps... but even non members can browse around the map that is displayed... you just can't contribute... and YOU are the search engine... eg If I want to see a map of something in say Georgia, USA... I would probably just pan the map over that way... but I know where that is and would start at the GA / FL border most times... If I didn't know what was what, I might spend a few minutes on GEarth or Gmaps and search the general area with there search tools... make a few notes and then look up the maps... but you will still have to do it... I don't recall a location search, but I've been off of OSM for a while...other than lunch today... many map sites also show their product with OSM as an option for map formats... but it is confusing for sure the first few times til you get the hang of it... it is all documented but you have to try a few placements first... for adding things. It is not that hard... I did it.. but for screen shots of really local maps for printing or viewing... that is easy.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978356 by Kirbert
Aug 14, 2019 9:18pm
Thread
But Google Maps clearly uses OSM data in their maps! I've entered stuff before to have it not only appear on OSM maps but appear on Google Maps as well.

Yes, that was evident even 10 years back when I started contributing to OSM database... most of the time, not even a full day went by... just to be sure, I misnamed one street I added from tracks... of several. When it showed the next day, there was the typo... gotcha... Still like I said, lots of tricks to getting the data out, but not hard to get in with a bit of practice... some of the tools are a bit misleading... and also a bit frustrating to go to their expected level of accuracy in location and usage... (say 2 lane pave vs 2 lane gravel etc.) only to find that for my GPS, I can only see a generic road... problem is my GPS though, not the Map.
I did one for a friend for his GPS, routable TYP... looked good and worked... took me by surprise though... was expecting a line route... but also got speech directions... (that was from garmin.openstreetmap.nl )
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978360 by 7rxc
Aug 14, 2019 9:26pm
Thread
I know where that is and would start at the GA / FL border most times.

So, Florida Georgia Line?
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978351 by 7rxc
Aug 14, 2019 9:32pm
Thread
Might get a simple cellular radiotelephone though.

Personally, I have a radiotelegraph. There is nothing like the feel of a metal key between your fingers. And the di-di-di-dit di-dit of a message coming it. Ahhhhh! The nostalgia. ;-)
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978362 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 14, 2019 9:38pm
Thread
Works for me...! I always went from GA to FL being from Toronto originally... but if that truck is going the other way... I can do that... we did have to go home didn't we...
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978363 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 14, 2019 9:43pm
Thread
We just used a key for CW on shortwave... but yah! let's hear it for straight keys...
but if you were using RF keying, it paid big time to have insulated knobs on there... big surprise sometimes as to where RF energy travels on metal...
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978350 by Sagacorn
Aug 15, 2019 3:35am
Thread
Hi Sagacorn!
I am not sure if this is helpful, but one thing I found is if you select the Share button (little square with arrow curved to the right) and then select Download, the OSM map you see on the computer screen will be downloaded to your computer and will be opened with the program you have on your computer that reads png files. (For me I have my computer set up to open png files with IrfanView.) From that program you might be able to print. Just a thought... :-)
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978363 by Oberon_Kenobi
Aug 15, 2019 6:37am
Thread
Personally, I have a radiotelegraph. There is nothing like the feel of a metal key between your fingers.

You young whippersnappers and your newfangled devices. I won’t dare leave the house without my radio-smoke-signal sender. There is nothing like the feel of bark between your fingers and the smell of burning wood to lead you to the next letterbox. Ahhh...
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978372 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Aug 15, 2019 6:55am
Thread
You young whippersnappers and your newfangled devices. I won’t dare leave the house without my radio-smoke-signal sender. There is nothing like the feel of bark between your fingers and the smell of burning wood to lead you to the next letterbox. Ahhh...

bahahahahaaaa

Good one.
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978356 by Kirbert
Aug 15, 2019 7:05am
Thread
Google Maps even includes property lines in some areas, which is great when you're off-road.

I love the fact that Google Maps seems to have almost any cemetery I want to find, even the tiny and obscure ones. (findagrave.com has been changed and "upgraded" - don't care for the search and mapping much anymore)

What I don't like with Google Maps is being able to only enter 10 locations on a route. There's a way to enter more....but I haven't been able to make it work even watching the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlmUJ8-KQ5o
Re: printing maps
Board: OpenStreetMap
Reply to: #978374 by MissMoon
Aug 15, 2019 8:59am
Thread
Thanks for that... re youtube tutorial... I tried it and also failed, but on re watching I think I see the problem... but I'm out of time this morning and late... I'll be back.