I do know a local letterboxer who might make a plant like that though.

Dunno about that. I like my boxes to actually be FOUND. :) I'd plant on the statue if you didn't need to wade through the water, though.

GJ

No, actually it's not. It doesn't give us the width of the fountain or what it looks like.

Correct, it doesn't. Kirbert?

Do the owners know about the box? If they do that's a whole different situation than if they don't.

Good point. Kirbert?

Nice dodge of the rest of my points, BTW. We'll take that as acceptance that I am right.

No, I'm not like a politician.

Is bothering fish the new concern in hide and seek games?

Do you worry about bothering deer? Do you worry about bothering birds? Do you worry about bothering other wildlife?

Here's what I actually wrote about the fish:

Second, the restaurant isn't going to appreciate people bothering their goldfish.

I wrote about the restaurant wrote not appreciating bothering the fish, with the assumption that people would be wading in the fountain. I was assuming a wide fountain (See my post asking for details) which we're still waiting for Kirbert to give details about.

I said nothing about bothering wildlife in general. You assumed some words that weren't there. Do you care to admit this, or can I assume your acceptance as you assumed mine. (See your own words above.) We can discuss bothering wildlife and usage of the outdoors in another thread, but I think that we very much agree on this point (that you made up from the quoted line of mine above). And I object to planting where it is prohibited, including the White House.

One of the reasons in your argument for it being unacceptable is that someone may observe a seeker seeking it

I already asked Kirbert for details on if the management knows about this. If they know about it then there is no problem and they would actually approve of the other stuff. But in general, if you hide it so that it MUST be obvious that you are out of place, the box/cache will soon go missing. (We can discuss the ephemeral nature of boxes in another thread.)

But to answer the other question of yours about the "toxic stew", yes. I've asked (in another post) for more details from Kirbert. I've sought geocaches and letterboxes in public places, and it is quite fun being stealthy. I haven't found any that require wading, though I've hidden such a geocache. I've both found and hid geocaches that required climbing, but no letterboxes. It's the combination of all three that I object to. (We're still waiting for details from Kirbert to see if my wading and climbing assumptions are correct, but I'm thinking now that one or both will be incorrect.) And if it requires climbing or wading in such a public (and privately-owned place, unless it explicitly states that they have permission) I'd still say that it should be archived.

Still, as public as Kirbert has described it, I'd probably pass. I've passed on ones that public before, and one was in a city that I'm not likely go to again.

I'd plant on the statue if you didn't need to wade through the water, though.

Considering some of the other places that you've planted, I'm sure that you would. However, unless it is an extremely small stamp or a statue that will easily accommodate a box it won't last long.

However, unless it is an extremely small stamp or a statue that will easily accommodate a box it won't last long.

Boxes that I predict will last a long time sometimes go missing within days. Other boxes I think might disappear quickly end up lasting for years. Two urban boxes I've planted in very public locations, one in 2009 and one in 2010, are still alive and kicking. You never know.

One thing I've learned to predict about the longevity of a box is that you can never predict the longevity of a box. And saying things like

it won't last long

mean no more to me than the weatherman predicting the weather a week from now.

GJ

One thing I've learned to predict about the longevity of a box is that you can never predict longevity of a box. And saying things like

it won't last long

mean no more to me than the weatherman predicting the weather a week from now.

Okay, you've done a lot more daring urban hides that I've done (even in geocaching) so I'll defer to your judgement on this, with one exception: I still don't think that a letterbox 6 feet up (from the ground) on a public statue in a very public place won't last long. Let me put a specific date on this, it won't last more than three months.

There can also be two classes, one with a logbook (for at least 12 1"x1" stamps) hidden with it and one with no log book. You've actually accomplished one of the types of hides I said was impossible. I don't think you can do this one. (Just, please, don't make people climb on the statue to get it.)

we're still waiting for Kirbert to give details about.

No, we're not.

I already asked Kirbert for details on if the management knows about this.

If he's smart (and I think the evidence has shown this to be the case), he'll ignore your request. It is rather beside the point.

Let me explain. No, there is too much... let me sum up:

blah blah hazy details about an interesting though extremely difficult hide blah blah

blah blah much assuming leading to intractable pronouncement of the absolute wrongness of said hide blah blah

blah blah usual suspects chime in with "not all boxes are for all boxers" defense blah blah

blah blah much flailing of words and bandying of fingers, along with posturing, backtracking, and general verbal mayhem among all parties blah blah

blah blah Kirbert! Help! blah blah

Kirbert: "Drizzle drazzle drozzle drone..."

If he's smart (and I think the evidence has shown this to be the case), he'll ignore your request.

Kirbert does seem to be (generally) wiser than the Moose, as evidenced by the Moose's choice of Halloween costumes.

Well, you see,

These message boards are designed so letterboxers can discuss all sorts of subjects and topics while following only the topics of most interest to you.

That "only" part means that anyone not interested in blah, blah, blah is free to use the ignore button.

Signed Just One Of The Little Ole Usual Suspects. :::::batting eyelashes:::::

I've been reading all of these long posts tonight and am kind of amazed that anyone has the energy to write them! Or am I the only person who's crashing after eating too much Halloween candy?? x^o' (<-- That's me, drooling, while in a over-glucosed and semi-conscious state.)

I've been reading all of these long posts tonight and am kind of amazed that anyone has the energy to write them!

Remember, they were written over several hours today. This is much longer than it took you to read them.

Kirbert?

Moi?

I'm just waiting for this thread to die. I haven't actually hunted that geocache, it was just described to me as an example of a challenging hide. FYI, there's also a whole series of "Off Your Rocker" geocaches that are hidden on the front porch of a Cracker Barrel restaurant. They're not only always busy, but there's a bunch of windows across the front of the building so you have no idea who all is watching.

"Drozzle??"

Is that a thing?

J

So, back to the original hide described. I'm not objecting to the public place (requiring extreme stealth), nor to the wading, nor the (possibly) dangerous climbing in a wet environment. I'm objecting to the combination, plus annoying the fish plus climbing a statue.

Well you're a good boxer, Oberon. A good boxer always knows his limitations.

-Dirty Harry Callahan

I'm just waiting for this thread to die. I haven't actually hunted that geocache

You were apparently wise.

FYI, there's also a whole series of "Off Your Rocker" geocaches that are hidden on the front porch of a Cracker Barrel restaurant.

I actually found one of those, "Off Your Rocker near China!" (GCJHB3), on 9 Aug 07. It was a challenge, but I found it without any muggles noticing. I acted like I was waiting for someone while I searched. A technique that works is "looking at my watch". I don't have a watch but people are too far away to tell.

I've found a few of Green Jello's letterboxes by using these stealth techniques. She like the challenging urban hides. There's a challenging hide that I've been considering, but I don't want it to go missing in the first three months. I've still got to come up with a really good way to do it though.

I still don't think that a letterbox 6 feet up (from the ground) on a public statue in a very public place won't last long. Let me put a specific date on this, it won't last more than three months.

Challenge accepted.

You've actually accomplished one of the types of hides I said was impossible. I don't think you can do this one.

What's that saying...? Something along the lines of, "People who say something is impossible should not interrupt those who are doing it".... :)

(Just, please, don't make people climb on the statue to get it.)

Not every box is for every boxer. If you do not feel comfortable climbing on a statue, don't climb a statue. Problem solved.

GJ

What's that saying...? Something along the lines of, "People who say something is impossible should not interrupt those who are doing it".... :)

With the first sentence I was thinking, “The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer.” It is the slogan of the U.S. Army in 1942.

However, there is a long history of similar quotes dating back to Charles Alexandre de Calonne published in 1794.

When the queen asked Calonne for money, he more than once made use of this singular expression: If it is possible, madam, the affair is done; if it is impossible, it shall be done! Appropriate language for a French petit-maitre addressing his mistress, but not for a financier in whose hands was reposed the prosperity of an oppressed people!

Challenge accepted.

Just don't give us a bad reputation. And if I don't feel comfortable finding it then I'll pass.

Just don't give us a bad reputation.

I think geocachers have far more to worry about re: bad reputations than I do with any of the plants I have done.

GJ

I think geocachers have far more to worry about re: bad reputations than I do with any of the plants I have done.

Well, yes. There are more geocachers so naturally there are more possibilities for a bad reputation. But there have also been some letterboxes that have had the bomb squad called on them. I just don't want to regret having given you this particular challenge.

BTW, in another of my posts I left off letterbox hides that requires wading or climbing. I'll have to think about where I can plant such letterboxes. I'm not as bold as you are, planting so many urban boxes, but I'm still thinking about a particular, very public place.

I just don't want to regret having given you this particular challenge.

I've actually planned on planting in this locale for about 4 years now. It's high time I do it.

GJ

http://i.word.com/idictionary/drizzle-drozzle

I won't post the Urban Dictionary link, but they rhyme it with nozzle....

There are more geocachers so naturally there are more possibilities for a bad reputation. But there have also been some letterboxes that have had the bomb squad called on them.

This may be true. Fortunately, at least for the bomb squad thesis, it simply isn't. At least not materially.

A simple google search of "bomb squad" letterboxing, query as follows --

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22bomb+squad%22+letterboxing&start=10

The first link (c 2010, Midland TX) describes a geocache --

https://ontariocacher.wordpress.com/geocaching/would-asking-permission-stop-bomb-squad-calls/

The eighth link (c 2012, in Disneyland), also describes a geocache --

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Disneyland-Shut-Down-For-Suspicious-Item-141295473.html#

The sixteenth link (c 2008, Toronto, ON), describes 1 letterbox, 2 geocaches, and 2 objects of unknown tribal origin --

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/08/01/when_police_join_the_treasure_hunt.html

None of the other links on the first 2 pages, at least as I could tell from the summary, described actual bomb squad events. Your search results may vary.

So, you would think, if "some letterboxes had the bomb squad called on them", more than one object identified as a letterbox would show up in the first 2 pages of the query, after 17 years, cause it seems like big news, at least to me. You would also think, if the poster did his homework, he would point out that 5 times as many objects described as geocaches also had the bomb squad called on them. However, the quote attempts to paint quite a different picture.

The numbers, in both cases, are not material, given the numbers and the timelines of the games, so what is the point of bringing it up? Who knows? (Well of course I know, but that is a topic for another day ...)

So, cutting thru the BS, and the fishing line, as the case may be, lets just drop the tribalism and think of them as the same game. Cause, you know what, not only are they the same game, the people who actually matter, the park people, the muggles, the people who could make things miserable, certainly think they are.

So, cutting thru the BS, and the fishing line, as the case may be, lets just drop the tribalism and think of them as the same game. Cause, you know what, not only are they the same game, the people who actually matter, the park people, the muggles, the people who could make things miserable, certainly think they are.

Neither "tribe" seems to think they are the same game. As someone who is in both "tribes" who has tried to get people to come over and try the "other" I appreciate another peacemaker. I'll defend either side when unfair things are said about the "other", but I've found that people can't be dragged to have a foot in each camp. I will still try to represent positively the "other" "tribe", but I have gained some understanding why many people don't do both.

And I thought the people playing the game are " the people who actually matter ". I know what you mean though, "the people who actually matter" are the people who can cause us real trouble.

The letterbox that I know had a bomb squad called in was actually reported as a geocache in the media. The geocaching community couldn't figure out what cache it was but the local letterboxes were very aware that a letterbox was at that location.

Dang, where did I put that lemur?

It's lying next to the kitten, underneath the horse. The baseball bats are all broken, but I've got a hockey stick if anyone wants to take another whack at the pile.

K

I thought about relating my experience involving the ef-be-eye and a letterbox plant in a very high security, high profile place that most certainly did involve the bomb squad and a very costly building evacuation. It was not my box, but I was stupid enough to stamp in with a stamp containing my trail name which was traceable back to me. I think we all know the risks of both planting and finding urban boxes, and hopefully know where common sense must prevail and the reputation of the hobby should be of higher priority than nabbing that risky box.

SpringChick

Dang, where did I put that lemur?

Zee lemur? Vas zat vhut ve skeened und ate?

You don't have to get every box!

You don't??

Wow, Springchick!

There were some locations I also felt were MUCH too risky too search for a letterbox at. It just didn't seem fun to worry about being arrested, nor did it seem fair that the planters put people at risk. So I didn't attempt those few boxes. Sorry you had that experience! Must have not been very fun!

I've had police and security run-ins on 4 different geocaching trips. (Only one of them was I totally surprised at). Some people just don't think before they plant.