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Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Dec 1, 2018 3:49pm
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I'm carving my second stamp on Tan-Z. I noticed the texture on the back before, but I don't think that I brought it up on the forums. I'm asking here so that others can see the response, and join the discussion if they want.

Webfoot, what makes this texture? Is it just because they didn't roll it on the top, or did they roll this texture into it when it was forming?

It does make it so that only one side can be carved, unless one has a way to utilize the pattern.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968961 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 1, 2018 3:53pm
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I don’t know the answer but we have already been through a fair amount of it. I haven’t really lost a piece due to a carving mistake but I’m sure it’s coming. I have been giving some thought to trying to sand down the back so it can be used. I don’t have any solutions yet but if I do I’ll post them.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968962 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Dec 1, 2018 4:56pm
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The material is fairly thick. I wonder if you could cut away that texture on the back with an exacto or a larger gouge. People shave down, or cut off the back of stamps for micro postals, but it's not that flat. Would be hard to get a smooth surface for stamping.

maybe there's a way to secure it in a vice and cut all the way through with some kind of knife, like a guillotine?
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968961 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 1, 2018 6:17pm
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what makes this texture? Is it just because they didn't roll it on the top, or did they roll this texture into it when it was forming?

The Stampeaz webstore describes Tan-z as "smooth on one side and pebbled on the other, <the answer>due to the extrusion process used to make it</the answer>, so it's very easy to tell which side to carve."
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968963 by BaliWho
Dec 1, 2018 7:07pm
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I was thinking more along the lines of a belt sander. Though holding it in one spot while working on it would be a bit tricky. I have an orbital sander that might work.

The thing is, Tan is quite a bit less flexible than pink. When roughing up the carving side (so it will hold ink better) I’ve sanded a *slight* low spot. That alone can cause printing issues. Whatever method is used needs to leave the surface pretty darn flat.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968964 by Bon Echo
Dec 1, 2018 8:10pm
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due to the extrusion process used to make it

Well, that answers my original question. This has generated a lot of interesting discussion though.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968967 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 2, 2018 6:26am
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I'm just about out of all the materials I've purchased in the past and have had thoughts of ordering Tan-Z but after the original posts of the trials of the material I've seen almost none that are overwhelmingly positive. Seems like it's one problem after another.

A question for all you out there that are using this material - is it worth the effort to purchase or should I go to Michael's and buy some pink stuff?

BTW BBStacker makes lots of carving errors and almost "needs" the other side of the material.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 6:46am
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I have found the material to hold fine details and as much more workable than OZ and more consistent throughout the material than SLQ and current Pink stuff. Also, I like supporting fellow letterboxers and Webfoot is one of the good gals! My vote is order a slab and try it out. If it is not for you, you can hit a local store, but I am guessing once trying the stuff and getting used to it, you will like it (and perhaps mistakes will be fewer in occurrence too with familiarity of the material).

Also the more people experiment with the material, the more likely a technique to use the underside will come through.

Jeff (and his $0.02)
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968974 by FORAYCH
Dec 2, 2018 7:09am
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I have already carved up 2 12x12 sheets of it and find no issues with it other than cutting the stamps apart... you have to be careful as it's like it has a grain to it and if you are cutting across it - you can get hung up and then it lets go - causing the cut to go astray. But carving it is much better than pink any day of the week for me... I hate pink :)
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 8:12am
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The Tan is much better than Pink in my opinion. I had only used pink until I tried the Tan. Wow, what a difference! After going through a couple slabs I went back and used the Pink for a donation stamp. It seemed like I was carving mud, ha ha.

I’m not sure it will help with your mistakes but it did with mine. Because it offers more resistance, the carving tools have less of a tendency “slip” into an areas that weren’t meant to be cut. I also like the way it prints much better. Because it’s less “squishy” than pink, I find I get less accidental transfer marks.

I agree that you should get a slab and try it for yourself. I also agree that it’s good to support the community.

DZ
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 9:20am
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A question for all you out there that are using this material - is it worth the effort to purchase or should I go to Michael's and buy some pink stuff?

Tan-Z is more like OZ. I'm not a conosour so it carves the same for me. Others notice a difference.

Let me echo the idea of buying a slab and trying it.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 11:52am
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Tan-Z - my comments are totally overwhelming positive. I did like the old pink, sure, but am over the moon about this stuff. Yes, it's quite firm and maybe that's why I feel like I can do (for me anyway) more challenging carves, and stamps up dandy with different inks. Light pre-sanding makes a world of difference. And yes, so grateful to Webfoot.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 12:58pm
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...is it worth the effort to purchase or should I go to Michael's and buy some pink stuff?

Why don't you just forget both of those and buy the Japanese stuff?

http://www.stampeaz.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=747
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968987 by Kirbert
Dec 2, 2018 1:13pm
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Why don't you just forget both of those and buy the Japanese stuff?

If that’s a serious recommendation, can you tell us why (the pros and cons)?
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968973 by BBStacker
Dec 2, 2018 6:54pm
Thread Board (disabled)
There is no "One Size Fits All" perfect material, and, to be honest, all of the carving materials have their issues. You have to determine what material works best for you and your carving style. I loved Orange when it was available, but other people hated it. Conversely, I hate using OZ and some people think it's the greatest. Get the smallest piece you can, then try it. If you don't like it, then go back to pink, or try something else. Tan-Z is the new kid and everyone has something to say about it. If you go back to messages posted when OZ came out, you'll probably find everyone giving their opinion on it, and a good bit of those will be negative comments, but people learned to like it.

dp
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968987 by Kirbert
Dec 3, 2018 5:18am
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buy the Japanese stuff

I bought a slab of both types from Webfoot and liked one of them. The other was way too soft and I couldn't get favorable quality lettering with it. Sadly I can't remember which one was a bit more firm. But I was thinking as you are and thought I'd post the question on Tan-Z before making a decision.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968986 by Team Awesome Pants
Dec 3, 2018 5:20am
Thread Board (disabled)
Thanks for all the replies everyone. Seeing such positive comments convinces me that I should give this new material a shot.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968988 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Dec 3, 2018 10:56am
Thread Board (disabled)
If that’s a serious recommendation, can you tell us why (the pros and cons)?

I only tried an early prototype of the tan stuff, but I didn't care for it at all. I prefer pink. But the Japanese stuff is some of the best carving material I've ever carved. It is soft -- even the "harder" version is still softer than most materials we're familiar with -- but the softness just makes it stamp really well! It carves like a dream. The problem used to be getting ahold of it without paying exorbitant shipping rates from Japan, but Webfoot now carries it solving that problem. Admittedly it's not cheap, but it'll be the only stuff I buy as long as it's available.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969011 by Kirbert
Dec 3, 2018 11:43am
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I agree - I'm a complete convert from SLQ to the Japanese SEED (thanks, Rebiccola!).
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969011 by Kirbert
Dec 3, 2018 2:52pm
Thread Board (disabled)
what is the name of it on Stampeaz?
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969031 by aMAZEing adventure frog
Dec 3, 2018 3:15pm
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what is the name of it on Stampeaz?

Tan-Z Kut
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969031 by aMAZEing adventure frog
Dec 3, 2018 3:20pm
Thread Board (disabled)
Kirbert provided a link to the product page in his initial post
https://www.atlasquest.com/boards/message.php?msgId=968987
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #968961 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 4, 2018 6:47am
Thread Board (disabled)
What makes the texture is the extrusion process. It would have cost a *lot* more to have them totally retool the machine for my batch and as it was, I was able to piggy back onto the set-up for another material they made for a different customer and cut the set-up fee out of the cost of the run, too. The decision to leave it one-sided was mainly an economic one. And, since the original PZ had crimps on the back from the machines, too, I figured people could live with it for a lower cost material.

Also, I've been toying with an interesting idea for the back side of the material - it's on my list of things to play with when I carve my next multi-layer image. I thought it might make a really nice texture for shading. It's like it's already stippled and ready to give that intermediate shadow between white and black (or any other color) when printing. I think it could be pretty cool. Stay tuned! Or, if you beat me to the experiment, let us know how it works!

Webfoot
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969058 by Webfoot
Dec 4, 2018 7:11am
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Ooo.. now there’s an idea!
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969034 by Bon Echo
Dec 4, 2018 9:04am
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Found it. Ordered some. Thanks.
Re: Tan-Z Pattern
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969062 by DarkZen and Evil Cow Pie
Dec 4, 2018 9:51am
Thread Board (disabled)
As someone else said, carving is an individual skill. We all use different tools, different techniques, and have various limitations, preferences, and experience levels. The service that Stampeaz/Webfoot provides, is to make and offer a variety of materials, so virtually anyone can make SOMETHING work for them. I join in thanking her for great work!!
Solution for the back of Tan-Z
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Dec 9, 2018 11:25am
Thread Board (disabled)
Over in this thread (https://www.atlasquest.com/boards/messages.php?startId=968961;threadId=140760) there was talk of the pebble texture on the back of Tan-Z and how it could be removed so both sides were usable for carving.

There was also the suggestion for using the pebble texture for ‘shading’ which I found interesting. This morning I was test printing the back (it’s got promise!). But so as not to get ink all over myself when using the front, I took a paper towel and some acetone to clean off the residue ink.

And I discovered that with a light scrubbing the pebble texture came off and left the surface as smooth as the “front” side! No slicing, no chopping, no sanding needed! I’m guessing for larger areas you might want to use a block or something to keep the surface level but the solution to getting the back carvable proved to be pretty simple.
Excellent video showing print making process
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Dec 15, 2018 9:00pm
Thread Board (disabled)
This is a bit more involved than the processes I use but I think the attention to detail is something I could definitely learn from.

https://thekidshouldseethis.com/post/linocut-carving-and-printing-by-maarit-hanninen
Re: Excellent video showing print making process
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969433 by lonnewsom
Dec 16, 2018 8:52am
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This is just my thoughts on the first video, and then the second one that was a two-color print. Take this from someone who is not as good at carving as her, but I know enough to appreciate her skill.

What immediately struck me was that the work of an artist from the Netherlands had a soundtrack in Spanish. It is a lovely language, but I was wondering why they didn't use a local artist singing in Dutch.

And at the end, she titles her work "Tomorrow, Tomorrow", in English. What a cosmopolitan world we've become.

Then I was wondering why she used so much water. She soaked the paper in water, mostly dried it then did a print. After printing she sprayed and pressed the paper to dry it out again. Then she signed them in pencil, rather than ink. Curious.

I also noticed the way she did the pencil transfer. Why make your own carbon paper rather than buy some? Is carbon paper so far from common memory that people don't know about it, or is it just not available there?

I then watched the video on the two-color printing. It was neat how she did the transfer for the second color. I'd like to (someday) try a multi-color print. I've done one, but it was a large stamp (about 3" by 2") with a small portion (about 1" by ¾") that was a second color, so I don't really count that.

She also carved out large areas with a gouge. Instead of carving out strips, she carved out combs then finished by carving out the connected area. I've done that sometimes, but with only a few (3-5) teeth.

Very interesting and relaxing carving videos. They were lovely prints too.
Re: Excellent video showing print making process
Board: Stamp Carving and Mounting
Reply to: #969443 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 16, 2018 11:46am
Thread Board (disabled)
I agree it's a very soothing video to watch. Thanks to lonnewsom for linking to it!

But I was also confused by some of her methodologies.
I also noticed the way she did the pencil transfer. Why make your own carbon paper rather than buy some? Is carbon paper so far from common memory that people don't know about it, or is it just not available there?

Dick Blick sells it (along with many other places) and ships internationally. But I'm not sure why it's needed in the first place. I carved a bit of linoleum for a more durable sig stamp and acetone transferred it just fine. I'm guessing that would also eliminated the need for painting the surface red (and why not white?).

Then I was wondering why she used so much water. She soaked the paper in water, mostly dried it then did a print.

I'm pretty sure that's left over from an Intaglio (printmaking) process she used to use. In that process, the ink is down in grooves (as opposed to being on a raised surface). The paper must be malleable enough to be forced down into the groves, hence the soaking. Here's an engraving I did years ago, you can see around the edges of the print itself how the press indented the paper.

It also shows signing the print in pencil which is the traditional way is to sign and number art prints. Also, a pencil mark cannot be easily reproduced by computers, making it less vulnerable to fraud.

DZ