Someone should plant a box specifically for this douchebag. Kind of a "surprise" if you will. We had some kids that kept smashing our pumpkins one year, so my dad covered the pumpkins in brake fluid or something of the sorts. Hehe... I'm sure someone could come up with something creative :)

Ok this guy a real jerk, especially now that he is looking up clues and specifically hunting down letterboxes and geocaches to remove from park.

However, I think the larger take home message is that we need to be responsible finders. The first two boxes this guy found were exposed to people walking down a trail. One was even sitting in plain sight. If he hadn't run across those two boxes, he would still be oblivious to our hobby.

This may mean that we need to do things like plant in areas that have an existing social trail that take boxes several feet away from a casual glance in case of things like rain washing away part of the leaf covering. In any case, the box you've just stamped in needs to be rehidden better than you found it. If the clues are straight forward, the next letterboxer won't have a problem finding it.

I'm not familiar with that area and don't know if the ecosystems are sensitive or not. If they are, then I can see someone being upset about it and taking action. Then again, I've run into people in Connecticut who talk about "sensitive ecosystems" (including people at the DEP) and they're uninformed - this entire state was clear cut for pasture less than 100 years ago and routinely burned over for thousands of years by the Native Americans to improve their hunting.

If if IS sensitive, then it's the geocaches giving letterboxers a bad name. There really is MUCH more trampling involved with finding a geocache.

There does seem to be a trend of park bans and eco-warriors that might ultimately hurt geocaches much more than letterboxes, because letterboxes can go underground so much easier. Geocaches are much more obvious, in part because the term was patented by geocaching.com, so they're nearly all listed on one site, with a map showing precisely where they are. Easy targets.

To some extent, perhaps in the long run this will add a layer of challenge and fun to letterboxing...more WOM clues, mysteries, and restrictions.

Here's another thought: A stated policy of "Two for One". Note on your clues that for every box destroy by the eco-bandit, two will be planted ;-).

The first two boxes this guy found were exposed to people walking down a trail. One was even sitting in plain sight. If he hadn't run across those two boxes, he would still be oblivious to our hobby.

That's her/his/their story, but I am not sticking to it.

There is just way too much glee taken by "killing" the letterboxes. It's one thing to not be happy with letterboxes and geocaches, but who goes from tossing a letterbox because they think it's trash to all out research mode, printing clues, walking out in "delicate ecosystems" to remove a letterbox or geocache and that includes spending $150 to buy a GPS to remove geocaches. The person almost seems like a sociopath or maybe a narcissist would be a better term. To quote the person writing, "Check here to learn where to not bother looking for them any longer." So one they believe, the community as a whole knows who they are and that everyone will make sure to visit the site. Second quote, "This blog now has garnered the attention hoped for." It's obvious this person is seeking attention and they have a great big ego. So far not a lot on this site has lead me to believe this person is an environmentalist or a rational thinker. Sure we all have our moments where we don't see so clearly, but this person has ignored everything. How they could be ruining the environment. This person does not even say that they are actually out there picking up real trash along with their kills. Why not pick up the bags of chips, broken glass, or condom wrappers that I usually see while out and about? The best thing to do is to inform the police. Maybe the person will be arrested like the Air Force guy. Also it is good to ignore the person's blog. All they want is some attention for their kills.

*Hugs to all those who have been affected* Hope this problem goes away soon for all of you out there.
Also I really liked what I think DMS posted on the blog when comments were still available. It was very true. Too bad that post is gone.

Maybe the person will be arrested like the Air Force guy

who's the Air Force guy?

HPL

Wow! Someone should use that as support to have the blog shut down - S/he's blantantly admitting to breaking the law and encouraging others to do the same!

HPL

I hope someone is working on "The Forest Defender" Series . . . an epic twenty plus "extreme" set of store bought stamps.

I have a blogger account already. I posted on the help forums what was happening and if this qualified as theft based on the precedence set. And, if it did, was that enough to get the blog shut down?

The big problem is that he knows he's being a jerk and breaking rules, that's why he won't list any contact info whatsoever. At this point, the only way to stop him completely would be to get police and lawyers involved. I don't think even F counts or P counts will stop him as I'm sure he's clever enough to fake them. Maybe AQ should start logging IP addresses?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain P and F counts will stop it.. while this person is using the database to find the clues.. I'm not so sure they're going to take the time to read all the FAQ's etc to figure them out....

For safety sake.. I recommend everyone ciphering your clues with a key word cipher.. they're easily done on line.. there's web sites that will encrypt it for you in a second. Then anyone that is a legit boxer that you know or can be vouched for can email you for the keyword.

I recommend everyone ciphering your clues with a key word cipher.

Can you explain this for me? I don't understand what you mean...

How about a mass planting? For every box this jackass removes plant two.

Shiloh

I hope someone is working on "The Forest Defender" Series . . . an epic twenty plus "extreme" set of store bought stamps.

The contents won't matter as s/he is probably tossing w/o looking.

Intentionally difficult directions with misleading information.

Seem to p**s him/her off, though. The line above is a quote from the blog.

I'd like to point out that this person seems to know a LOT about both hobbies. Even whining about someone who put a geo travel bug from one cache in a park into a letterbox in the same park. Not to mention having laid out a ton of money for gear, including a GPS. Also, the dates of what was done when could be off by a few days, so I could be wrong here, but at least one box in questions has been logged as found since the blog date. By an "interesting" trailname, no less.

Also, if WA State Parks require permits for boxes, and that permission has been obtained, then it seems to me the case for actual theft is much stronger if/when wants to pursue it with this goofball.

My B.S. detector is working overtime here trying to figure out what's really going on. Something doesn't smell quite right to me. I hope this is some big joke. I really do.

pre

Hopefully, he is not reading the boards, he has learned too much already!

Especially since she may have already downloaded clues to ones that are still there.

KuKu

One post on the geocaching website:

I think y'all are missing a terrific opportunity up there. If it were me, I'd hide a series of caches dedicated to her. The Forest Defender series!

Don't put any TB's in them, knowing they'll be muggled. But hide a bunch in the woods, name them after her, leave notes in each one thanking her for increasing the challenge and popularity of the geocaching in your area. Or telling her how far you drove in your SUV to get there.

And then make a whole sub-game out of seeing who can rush out and find them before she can. Wholesome fun for the whole family!

If you can't beat 'em, mess with 'em.

Hmmmm, boxes with no stamp or logbook, just a note like above . . .

KuKu

THAT sounds like the best idea I've heard so far! Turn his/her "activities" into a game! Oh the possibilities...

Honestly, I was kind of hurt that someone would go to great lengths to wage a war against two hobbies that are for the most part beneficial and certainly better for the environment than playing and manufacturing video games, so I didn't read so much as skim. I did look at the photos though and what I saw was a bunch of boxes/caches, some of which were well-hidden, some not, but I didn't see any litter. I was expecting to see examples similar to some of the geocaches I've found: a closed ammo box surrounded by various pieces of plastic that folks were too lazy to place back inside the cache. This I could've understood. But removing boxes that were well-hidden and well-maintained...? Why not contact the planters and explain the situation and why the box is planted in a bad spot? And then to just throw these things in the trash? Sure, a lot of it is going to end up in a landfill, but I'm pretty sure the ammo boxes and Lock N Locks are recyclable. The blogger says they don't have a personal vendetta against us, but to dedicate so much time to finding each cache and box just takes a lot of energy. I think they're enjoying the hobbies more than they realize, since they have to follow the very clues we so lovingly craft (in letterboxers' cases anyway) in order to find our "litter."

Whoever is running that site is completely anonymous, and the only three people who are following the blog publicly appear to be either geocachers or letterboxers. Either that or they're following geocachers/letterboxers to find out where to locate boxes/caches. I'm going to follow the blog privately, just to see if they ever allow comments. Currently there is no way (that I could find) to contact them, which is just ridiculous and shows that they aren't open to any sort of discussion/debate about what they're doing. I have my issues with geocaching, but I don't think it's right that they interfere. Even when I've found caches where trinkets are littered everywhere, I've simply put everything back in the cache, re-hid it as well as I could, and moved on.

I really hope this is a movement that dies off quickly. They really need to find better ways to spend their time!

-gollygee
weighing in from New Hampshire

^___^
{O,O}
/)___)
" "

I'm fairly certain that he is reading these boards. As Squid Inky pointed out to me last night they have posted a new post on their blog entitled "Is it just meanness?" and it sounds like they've been keeping up with what we've been posting on here. Hopefully I'm just paranoid, but that's what it sounds like to me. Here's what their new post says:

I get that a lot of people are going to be angry at the removal of Letterboxes and Geocaches.

Also, I'm not delusional that every cache and letterbox placed in every tree, stump, and log will be removed any time soon. There is a ten year head start in this game. All I and a growing number of angry anti-cachers can do is remove one at a time over the long haul. Maybe educate some people along the way.

Is it just meaness and a kill joy attitude that motivates us? No. Not at all. We find a number of caches and letterboxes placed in non sensitive areas. There are educational earth caches. Puzzels that are fun and leave no junk or swag in sensitive eco-systems. We sign the log and move on. If it were only meaness that motivates we would remove them all. If it were only meaness that motivates this blog wouldn't exist to warn and list the areas these things will not be tolerated.

They say they won't remove boxes or caches that aren't in eco-sensitive areas, however they have already done just that a few times. I think this person needs to better educate themself. Also, they say that they've signed the logs in caches before. Do they have a geocaching.com account as well? If they do, then they probably have one on AQ too. I kinda think this person might be an ex-letterboxer or geocacher who got ticked off at the hobby for whatever reason and basically wants "revenge". It seems they know what kind of equipment they need to take and how to use the GPS to find the right areas, etc. Plus, as has been previously pointed out, there is far too much joy in making the "kill". They don't use their blog to educate anyone, they just use it to brag about the boxes/caches they've thrown into dumpsters. That doesn't sound like a real "forest defender" to me, just someone on a vendetta. I'm also worried, because last week they only had one follower, but today they have four! Also on their newest blog post they are reffereing to themselves as "we". I don't think this bodes well for us. I really hope I'm just paranoid!!!!

They say they won't remove boxes or caches that aren't in eco-sensitive areas, however they have already done just that a few times. I think this person needs to better educate themself.

Yeah, putting on my environmental scientist hat on for a moment, some of those hiding spots didn't look very sensitive to me. I hasten to say I'm not familiar with that part of the country, but still, the forest looks pretty damp, and damp forests tend to grow pretty fast. Connecticut is like that and you can have a social trail form one year at a box, and the following year disappear completely due to the growth of vegetation.

And the worry over fungi can be misplaced. 99% of a fungi is not visible, growing inside a decaying log, for example, for months or years. What we see is just a fruiting body that shoots up real quick. If that is crushed, it's not great for the fungi reproduction, but the fungi is still quite alive and well inside the log.

The one location that DID look sensitive was one along a beach. Generally speaking, beach areas, alpine ecosystems, desert or dry sandy areas...the vegetation in those locations often can't keep up with foot traffic. Not that you couldn't plant in those areas if it was done right, and I don't know how it was done in that instance. A geocache would be a bad idea, though. You tramp around so much more looking for a geocache than a letterbox.

I do run into a lot of well-intentioned crusaders who really are just not very well informed about the environment and how it works. They tend to do more harm than good.

Do they have a geocaching.com account as well?

I believe - and someone, please correct me if I'm wrong! - you have to have an account to get the GPS coordinates... at least on the caches I tried. That's not the case here.
Though, undoubtedly after reading these posts, they would have looked into it, if they hadn't before.

HPL

I wouldn't worry about followers to their blog...it could just be those who want to keep up with their antics. Those who follow blogs are not always 'fans'.

And if you, Forest Defender, are reading this, you have mail:

http://myhartinrubber.blogspot.com/2010/05/dear-forest-defender.html

~SHH :-/

True, some of the names of the followers sound like they are not sympathizers...."Defenderisapig" and "Ofcourseitsjustmeanness" don't sound like compliments.
~Nite Momith

Well done!

I'm also worried, because last week they only had one follower, but today they have four! Also on their newest blog post they are reffereing to themselves as "we". I don't think this bodes well for us. I really hope I'm just paranoid!!!!

I seem to recall that the one follower was a cacher... and I think a few of the new ones are too. A name or two I recognized from the groundspeak thread. The others, as mentioned, are obviously anti-forest-defender. I think people just want to follow to know if their plants are being targeted.

Personally, I'm not too concerned about the "we" thing yet... it's common for people who are too puffed up about themselves and their missions to use the "royal we", when in reality it's only them.

HPL

There is no way to post a message to the Nut Job Forest Defender, but messages can be sent to the "members." The "members" also have other sites they belong to listed.

Nicely done, SHH. Your eloquent and concise words are appreciated. Here's hoping your open letter reaches it's designated recipient!
Kokeshi of TRL

I kinda think this person might be an ex-letterboxer or geocacher who got ticked off at the hobby for whatever reason and basically wants "revenge". . . . . there is far too much joy in making the "kill". . . . . . That doesn't sound like a real "forest defender" to me, just someone on a vendetta.

This is my take on this whole thing, I am also interested that the only people that they "outed" were letterboxers. That seems very vindictive to me. They also seem to be counting their destruction like we and the cashers count finds. This is someone who is very familiar with both sports.

I don't know what the solution is but I do think that there is a lot of us out there that have an investigative, clue solving personalities that this person won't be anonymous for long.

Someone should befriend this poor soul and lure then into a trap. It'll be a sting! We get buddy buddy, then tell them "I think I solved a clue for one in the park, lets go check it out!" then BOOM, ten letterboxers jump out of the bushes and tackle her!

Let it be known that I will cut down ten trees along the Pacific Crest Trail--innocent prepubescent trees that are the future of our forests--for every letterbox or geocache that the forest "defender" kills. I will burn them in campfires, which hopefully won't turn into a full-fledged wildfire, but they already closed the trail for a couple of days because of someone doing that, so there are no guarantees.

And only you, Forest Defender, can stop the insanity.

Cheers. Got a campfire to attend to.... =)

-- Ryan