I know that people don't like pouches, but the last four letterboxes that I have found have been in pouches. In fact, I have found a total of six (that I can remember right now) pouches. Two of those six were planted recently, but the others had been out at least a year. My latest find (yesterday) had been out since November 2015 and was hidden under leaves.

None of these pouches had any bugs in them. So, have I been lucky or is northern Utah just different?

None of these pouches had any bugs in them. So, have I been lucky or is northern Utah just different?

Maybe both. Maybe Utah is drier, or the specific planting spots were better protected from the elements, or . . . . you were lucky. I have yet to find one in the PNW that was not wet, muddy, moldy, chewed, and buggy, although sometimes the secondary bag inside was sealed and the contents stayed dry.

I’m in so cal and have had pretty good luck here but mostly pulled them from under lamp skirts or guard rails

You've been lucky! (It HAS been a dry year though, so maybe that has something to do with it.)

When we were in NY, we found a few in pouches and it was sort of a mixed bag, some nice and dry, and some kind of yucky. I personally had one for a while in Louisiana that was in a pouch and it held up well, but it was located in a spot that was easy for me to check it and make sure it stayed well sealed.

I agree with the mixed bag of the pouch finds and plants. We have one here in Huntsville Alabama that has been in the wild for eight years now and seems to be doing very well. It is near by so we can check on it if needed, but it has held up just fine over the years. We have found some others that have been in rough shape and others, like ours, that seem to be doing just fine.

We have found some others that have been in rough shape and others, like ours, that seem to be doing just fine.

The question is: What makes the difference? Is it all about the particulars in the way the pouch itself is constructed? Or is it about the particulars in the hiding location -- how far above the ground, exposure to rain, etc.? Or is it all about what area of the country?

And: Does it matter? It's clear that the success rate is lower than 100%. The success rate of a Lock 'N Lock has got to be close to 100% (not counting being muggled or dug up by bulldozers) other than in direct sunlight or the heat of Utah. Just because *some* pouches seem to work, is that good enough? Unless we can figure out why some succeed and emulate those, should they be discouraged simply because the probability of success isn't up to par?

Finally: Is it less enjoyable to find a pouch? Even if the pouch is clean and dry, does the fact that the box is a pouch detract from the letterboxing experience?

It seems to be about 60% pouches / 40 percent boxes around these parts. Doesn't matter to me at all. It's about the stamp and what it represents to me. Pouches can be made pretty tight with duct tape on the outside and then separate smaller ziplocks inside, one for the stamp, another for the book, and then sometimes people put both of those inside another one --- all inside the fortified pouch. Kinda depends on the placement locale too, sometimes a box just won't fit!

Mostly location of the hide, sometimes it is the type of pouch, like what is made from.

We have found a few lock n locks with issues too. Some have tabs that are broken off and some of the gaskets have failed.

We try to keep all of our pouches hidden up off the ground and not under rocks.

We have done many pouches that were fine but for the most part I do not care for them here in Florida.
Most pouches just like many boxes here in Florida tend to end up wet, and a pouch just does not stand up to the moisture the way a LnL or a solid plastic containers does.
That is not to say that a LnL is foolproof either. If the previous finder does not tuck the plastic baggie in all the way, the lid will not seal completely allowing water to seep in. If the container is placed on the ground upside down, inevitably it will fill with water.
My experience with pouches are they almost always have some kind of insect cocoon or palmetto bug or ants or something insecty under that flap!!! When I see a pouch I go into football punter mode and will kick it around several times to hopefully dislodge any creepy crawlies. That works 99.9% of the time. I guess I mostly think they suck because even after all that I still have to open the flap and since you can't see what's under it, you fumble that flap blindly. Usually the underside of that flap is wet (YUCK) and often a tiny little 6 legged something or a giant a** palmetto bug will leap out from within.
Then there are the pouches where there is no flap, only the zip. Those never stay dry for very long and while there are no hidden cozy hiding spots under a flap they are usually worse in the staying dry department.
I might also add that Palmetto Bushes attract Palmetto Bugs. Add a tasty adhesive covered pouch and it becomes an almost guaranteed Palmetto Bug Hotel & Restaurant.
I can't speak for other locations, only our palmetto filled wet and humid one.
But if pouches work for you then you should by all means use them! They do have upsides...Pouches are easily made, inexpensive, flexible to tuck into a crevice where perhaps a blocky box would not fit. And there are tons of tape pattern options to camouflage with.

Usually the underside of that flap is wet (YUCK) and often a tiny little 6 legged something or a giant a** palmetto bug will leap out from within.

I looked up palmetto bug. I can see why you dislike them.

I can't speak for other locations, only our palmetto filled wet and humid one. But if pouches work for you then you should by all means use them! They do have upsides...Pouches are easily made, inexpensive, flexible to tuck into a crevice where perhaps a blocky box would not fit. And there are tons of tape pattern options to camouflage with.

I've got a location where the only hiding locations are lamp post skirts or gravel-filled islands (which means a pouch). I'm still looking for alternatives since I haven't carved the stamp yet.

There are six boxes that I remember were in pouches:
1) New (within the past week) plant in an evergreen.
2) Over three-year-old plant found in a depression in the ground hidden under a rock during a rain storm. Pouch was dry inside. I took it back to my car to do all of the stamping.
3) Hidden in a bush. Pouch was dry.
4) New lamp post skirt hide. Pouch was dry.
5) Over a year plant hidden under rocks. Pouch was dry but had some dirt on it.
6) Almost 3-year-old plant hidden under leaves. Pouch was dry.

All of these were in Utah. So, I've had good results. This is why I asked the question.

While people are dis'ing on pouches, I'll remind people about one Lock 'N' Lock that I found: It was planted in a riverbed. It was not under water when I found it but would be under water during the spring runoff. It was kept it place by having a large rock set on top of it. There was about ½" of water in the container, but the inner bags kept the the stamp and logbook dry.

PNW ends up with very yucky pouches unless planted somehow out of reach of the rain. Under leaves and rocks and ooorly sealed ends up with a dirty seal that can’t ever fully close. Very wet, very buggy, Very gross.

As for boxes in The SW desert, sistema which has a real hinge seems to be holding up better than lnl with the creased tab instead of a hinge.

As for avoiding critters I think that may be pot luck. I have a bird house with a lnl inside. You have o open the door on the bird house to get to the box. There is a variety of large spider that seems to like to nest inside the box tho I’m not sure how it gets in. Smacking the side of the bird house a few times with a stick recommended.

[big spider]

So far all of the pouches we have found were in good condition - no bugs. We found one that hadn’t been found in several years but it was in good shape. Of course they were all pretty well made - heavy duty freezer bags.

Smacking the side of the bird house a few times with a stick recommended.

Yowsers! Is that picture of the spider for real?

This is the closest match that I found to the spider pictured. However, I don't think that this is the correct type of spider. Can someone else find a better match?

BTW, that is one BIG spider.

or a 10 foot pole yuk!

Not all pouches are created equal.
Not all pouch hiding places are equal.
Not all boxers re-sealings methods are equal.

Much of that seems to have a bearing on how well the pouch works.

I much prefer a pouch over flimsy Glad-ware.

A lot of the pouches I have found have had bugs, water and wet log books in them. I even found one that had been planted the day before I found it and even it had lots of bugs in it! That was quite a surprise. It just is hit and miss as to dry ones vs bug filled ones.

Someone suggested a wolf spider once. And since this is AZ not likely the one pictured. And yes it is real. Just ask Kurious Jo and Wood Aug.

Fortunately the inside of the letterbox was free of spiders.

In Maine, I have seen them wet inside but don't recall any with bugs inside. The tops is frequently folded over and there are usually some in the fold but not in the bag.

[big spider]

Where's the "yuck" button?

As others have said some pouches are found in better shape than others. I think it depends on the type of bag and tape that is used.....some planters are more meticulous than others in making their pouches as well!

Yowsers! Is that picture of the spider for real?

Yep, that is a Woodsman Spider.

DZ

Actually, after some searching it appears it might be (more specifically) a Olios giganteus (Giant Crab Spider):

https://spiderid.com/spider/sparassidae/olios/giganteus/

If I’m understanding this website, it looks like sighting one is a rare event:

There have been 37 confirmed sightings of Olios giganteus (Giant Crab Spider), with the most recent sighting submitted on June 18, 2018 by Spider ID member jennylee.

I have returned to letterboxing a lot recently after some years of being semi-inactive. During that time pouches have apparently become more common in my local area in Michigan. I saw them rarely or never in the old days, but have recently found more of them than boxes. So far my impression is not good. The ones hung inside shrubs have been all right (except when they've fallen, which seems to happen not uncommonly). The ones I've found on the ground, either because they fell or by design, have almost all been wet or buggy. One I found recently had been colonized by ants under the flap who grabbed their eggs in a panic and rushed out willy nilly as soon as I opened it up. I actually felt bad for them having their colony disturbed. The pouch itself had a inch or so of water in the bottom and while the logbook was fine, a hitchhiker that had been left there had its log destroyed. I have to say I have not gotten a great early impression of pouches. Others' experiences no doubt vary.
-PR.

I think it depends on the type of bag and tape that is used.

My experience with pouches (primarily SW Ohio, Central IN) is that the placement makes a difference, more than the materials. Learned the hard way about bugs in the fold. Very memorable....

In my area, at least, pouches seem more subject to weather than a good lock and lock, other factors being the same.

There is a variety of large spider that seems to like to nest inside the box tho I’m not sure how it gets in. Smacking the side of the bird house a few times with a stick recommended.

[big spider]

It doesn't need to be small, it just needs to be smaller than your shoe.

...there are usually some in the fold but not in the bag.

I think that's the concern being discussed. There might not be bugs inside the bag very often, but they are nearly always in the fold -- and that's bad enough, because you have to open up the fold in the course of opening the bag.