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Read Thread: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...

Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Jan 31, 2013 8:02pm
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I had an email today from some geocachers who have over 16,000 finds since 2002. They criticized my geocache hybrid as confusing and wasting their time, because NOT AT POSTED COORDINATES, was not in the first short part of the cache description. I did have it as the first part of the full description and in the hint. I admit, at first I felt defensive of my hybrid...... but I realised they were right.

They had said their reviewers insisted final coords lead to the cache. I know from research, that it just has to be an integral and major part of the cache hunt. I've seen several hybrids that had clues and coordinates. I am lucky that my reviewer worked with me on my caches.

At any rate, after having over 50 finds on my cache in over a year, I have updated my listing of Wildlife of Chesnut park to include the word letterbox hybrid in the cache name. I also put NOT AT POSTED COORDINATES in the very first part of the description.

I emailed the distinguished cachers and thanked them, but did say I quite like the CLUES in my hybrid and will keep doing it my way, but that I valued their suggestion, and have changed the wording.

So anyway...we can all learn from each other.... always try not to see red when you get an email... or see through the red, anyway...
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757098 by FloridaFour
Jan 31, 2013 8:20pm
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update: I got an email back from them apologizing and saying they didn't mean to criticize...

They even changed the wording on their find log to be more pleasant. (it WAS critical, and said I had wasted their time), but I guess they felt badly that I actually wrote back! Wow, a cache owner who reads their listing and maintains their box!!!!!!!

I wrote them back again that it was ok, and that I agreed with them and changed my wording.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757098 by FloridaFour
Jan 31, 2013 8:57pm
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because NOT AT POSTED COORDINATES, was not in the first short part of the cache description.

This is the way that it is done around here, but there is no requirement to do this. I think that the reason it is done around here is because of comments just like you recieved.

They had said their reviewers insisted final coords lead to the cache. I know from research, that it just has to be an integral and major part of the cache hunt.

You are correct. However, you won't get anywhere by ticking off the reviewers. I think that you have done well by working with your reviewer, as you stated. If the reviewer in their area doesn't follow the guidelines then just be glad that you don't have to deal with their reviewer.

And have fun making the hybrids.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757098 by FloridaFour
Feb 1, 2013 4:39am
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I emailed the distinguished cachers

Meh, they're Numbers Cachers, the kind that have a list of 20 caches to find that day and spend the entire time racing around the city trying to get as many as possible in that time. That's why they get so bent when they can't immediately find something. But I would agree that because your type of hide is so unusual, the "Cache not at coordinates" note should be immediate. The nice thing about adding it to the title is that a lot of people are caching from their phones now, and the phone apps don't always allow access to the description page.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757122 by Trailhead Tessie
Feb 1, 2013 5:00am
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Yeah, I had my other hybrid listed with it in the title, but this one I was trying to be consistent with how I listed it on AQ. Oh well!

I agree, numbers, numbers... :) They probably only looked for 10 minutes before they looked up the cache page!!! Because numbers people have about a five minute tolerance. But usually numbers people are well-known and liked, and these have been caching for 11 years... also I figured they've seen a few hybrids. I've been letterboxing for 1.5 years with less than 200 finds (although to be rectified this weekend), but when I see boxers who don't maintain their caches and they are all soggy and buggy or have bad directions, I don't go to them.... and we have a lot of those near where I live. In geocaching I have 300 finds in 2 years. Only about 10 of those stand out as fun or interesting, and I seek mostly those types of caches now, or just cache when I happen to have no letterboxes around, as a way to explore.

I did have Not at Posted Coords in the original description, but the word limit made me drop it. I wanted more info to make sure they knew it was a letterbox, and would be different. Well, now it's changed.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757098 by FloridaFour
Feb 1, 2013 6:27am
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Some reviewers are better than others. My reviewer is a PITA to deal with. He insists on having final coordinates, so I put them as a secondary waypoint. The last one I posted, I even copy/pasted the the text from the guidelines page to the Reviewer Note that said "This cache type pays homage to an older form of scavenger hunt. A Letterbox Hybrid must include significant GPS usage for AT LEAST PART of the hunt. Letterbox-style clues may be used to guide seekers to the container, but only if the clues are accompanied by coordinates specific to the hide. The container for a Letterbox Hybrid must include a stamp, which stays with the geocache and may be used by letter-boxers to stamp their personal letter-boxing book. The cache can be logged without using the stamp." I just think my reviewer is anti-letterbox.

One of the first hybrids that I tried placing using directional clues ended up going back and forth about 5 times before it finally posted. I even blogged about that one. http://nativtxn.blogspot.com/2012/09/frustrations-with-trying-to-get-cache.html

Again, the review team on opencaching.us is MUCH easier to get along with.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757122 by Trailhead Tessie
Feb 1, 2013 11:19am
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It doesn't matter how you word it. Those types of geocachers generally never see the cache page. They just bring up the list of all the geocaches in the vicinity and download them directly to the GPS. Only when they don't find the cache at the coordinates will they consider bringing up the listing on their smartphone to see if it's a two-stage or something.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757203 by Kirbert
Feb 1, 2013 11:35am
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I tend to agree with you, Kirbert. Usually they say...duh, I should've looked at the cache page, though. Not....if you would've "X", we wouldnt have wasted so much time. (I bet they "wasted" 5 to 10 min). I'm glad they changed their comment, because of the 50 finders, I've had maybe 3 who said anything about being confused, and only one DNF, because the woman missed seeing a clue, which I can't help if she can't tell a tree from a hole in the ground!
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757143 by NativTxn
Feb 1, 2013 4:01pm
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He insists on having final coordinates, so I put them as a secondary waypoint.

I know that the final coordinates have to be available to the reviewer, so they can be hidden from the general public. Does your reviewer insist that they be visible to the general public? I think you said that was so in a previous post, but I'm just verifying. I must have good reviewers around here, which I'm glad for. We seem to interpret the rules in similar ways.

Both of my crossover letterboxes have been puzzles. With a reviewer such as yours, a puzzle should be able to work because it's obvious on a puzzle that a puzzle's final coordinates shouldn't be open to the public. On both of mine I use the required coordinates as an intermediate point where they then follow clues. They're clues all of the way here.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #757240 by Oberon_Kenobi
Feb 8, 2013 6:55am
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Through some back and forth emails yesterday, he consented that the final can be hidden as long as GPS is used for most of the hunt. He thinks letterboxes should just be an attribute to show that it contains a stamp and shouldn't be a type of its own.
Re: Suggestion from some geocaching legends...
Board: Geocaching and Other Stashing Games
Reply to: #758342 by NativTxn
Feb 8, 2013 9:01pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Through some back and forth emails yesterday, he consented that the final can be hidden as long as GPS is used for most of the hunt. He thinks letterboxes should just be an attribute to show that it contains a stamp and shouldn't be a type of its own.

Glad to hear that he finally conceded that the final coords do not need to be public. His bias (although I agree with it) shouldn't affect his reviewing responsibilities. He is required to follow the guidelines as they are currently laid out for letterbox hybrids. Hybrids must have a stamp and can be either follow the style of a traditional, puzzle/mystery or multi-cache type. At the discretion of the owner, the posted coordinates can be at the box location, a landmark or point along the way to the box, or a starting point with coords at stage 1 and coords to be found at stages along the way to the final.