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Msg: 232845
KuKu Subject: Re: Personal Traveler available June 7 & 8 in Portland
Board: State: Washington
Author: KuKuProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 12:25 AM
P-80F-971M-3592PremiumInactive > 3 months
Reply to: Msg 232742 by mudflinginfools
But mud, I will send you the image if you want. It's a special dispensation for my East coast friends, those I have met and those I "met" at the ice cream social.

HaPpY bIrThDaY! Again!

KuKu
Msg: 232846
Claudia and Alex Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: Claudia and AlexProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 12:30 AM
P-104F-1940M-714
Reply to: Msg 232832 by Kirbert
mr. yuk said:

In third world countries, God is downright aloof or even cruel


kirbert said

That's because all those people are heathen


I know that when you said heathen, you were playing into the rhetoric or something. It's probably not your personal view. But I take umbrage with such an uncritical representation. It's one thing to deconstruct religions, but it's quite another to thing to call a whole group of people unenlightened or unprincipled, lacking a culture etc (a connotation of heathen) without specific explanation.

The tone of this debate has been serious and I think it's appropriate to keep it that way. :)
Msg: 232847
KuKu Subject: Personal Traveler available June 7 & 8
Board: State: Maine
Author: KuKuProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 12:31 AM
P-80F-971M-3592PremiumInactive > 3 months
I have just posted a new PT, "Twenty Years of Dragonboats", http://www.atlasquest.com/boxes/showinfo.html?gBoxId=77774

It will be available if you come down and say hi to me at my booth at the dragonboat races in downtown Portland — that's Portland, OR.

Now, I created this PT because I like peeps to come down and see me — not a complicated reason!

However, I know my East coat friends can't come to THIS Portland. (Though somehow I am able to "be present" on the East coast!!!)

So, email me and let me know. Even better if you can find (on an older similar PT) my team's cheer and email it to me.

I will stamp and send to you if you send me your address. If you are coming to L&B, you can get it then instead, if you wish.

KuKu
Msg: 232848
Subject: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: prairie dogProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 12:48 AM
F-497M-240
Whoa, isn't this fun? Sitting at work waiting for another group to finish their work, so I can do my validations; this should help me stay awake.
Msg: 232849
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: Alaska hsmProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 12:55 AM
P-131F-478M-1586
Reply to: Msg 232848 by prairie dog
Ohhh I REALLY like this background!!!
Alaska HSM
Msg: 232850
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: RomanaProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:00 AM
P-123F-121M-5452Premium
Reply to: Msg 232849 by Alaska hsm
isn't it cool when the octopus at the bottom reaches behind him and gets out those tiny barbells??

romana
Msg: 232851
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:04 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232850 by Romana
i like this theme...

where can i find it?
Msg: 232852
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: prairie dogProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:07 AM
F-497M-240
Reply to: Msg 232850 by Romana
I like the moving fish lips at the bottom right better. I've got plenty of time to wait and watch for it tonight.
Msg: 232853
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: RomanaProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:09 AM
P-123F-121M-5452Premium
Reply to: Msg 232852 by prairie dog
her lips move all right, but when the octopus starts pumping the iron, her eyes bug out at his muscles... it's kinda cute.

romana
Msg: 232854
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: RomanaProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:13 AM
P-123F-121M-5452Premium
Reply to: Msg 232843 by Green Tortuga
Christians 33.32% (of which Roman Catholics 16.99%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.53%, Anglicans 1.25%), Muslims 21.01%, Hindus 13.26%, Buddhists 5.84%, Sikhs 0.35%, Jews 0.23%, Baha'is 0.12%, other religions 11.78%, non-religious 11.77%, atheists 2.32% (2007 est.)


I wonder where the CIA is counting mormons...in the 11.78% of "other" or somewhere in the 72.45% of un-accounted-for Christians (which is where they belong)

romana
Msg: 232857
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 1:27 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232491 by Eidolon
Quote Ignorance of the rules is no excuse

And yet at no point did I say that...

Just like how in "the real world" local laws/rules are available for public perusal, free of charge, usually at the local library and/or city hall, such a book of "rules" also would have to be.


Not always; once, I ran afoul of a new piece of state law, and when I asked about it, the guy said it hadn't, yet, been posted, but that ignorance of the law was no excuse.....I was at a loss to know where to begin my protest....Ever had one of those, "that's so ridiculous, I don't even know what to say," moments?

But I was kidding. About the "laws" of letterboxing.

We need an enforcement arm. kgb; kommitiet grazhdanin boxing. people keep disappearing.....
Msg: 232858
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:14 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232497 by Kirbert
*sigh*...really tired of the debate....but we limp along.

Quote Excellent. And why is there a cultural bias, and why is "everyone" saying it?


There are lots of reasons for cultural bias. Part of that is religion, sure. But the way we communicate is substantially different, as well; so when we say "potato," they might hear, "I want to conquer your sister." Part of that is because we developed with substantial geographic separation, and in different environments. Like, in Japan, apparently making big motions is considered aggressive, where in Italy it's seen as a sign of passion and interest. The situation in many cases is ripe for misunderstanding.

It's one of those 'more than one way to open a can of soup' things. If you grow up in a separate place (kept apart by desert, mountains, or whatever), you tend to develop a different way of doing things. There's also the fact that one group of people who tend to do a lot of contacting new peoples is con artists; always looking for new victims. This can lead people to develop an insular attitude.

As far as why "everyone" is saying it, I've seen rumors based on nothing destroy reputation and ruin attitudes; if you're prone to be suspicious of outsiders, rumors like this are more likely to get started, and more likely to spread. And self-defense against the rumors is made more complicated by the culture issue; if I say something, it is more likely to be misunderstood. I might condemn myself in their eyes accidentally....like the time a reporter showed the bottom of his shoe to a Muslim leader; which is a sign of great disrespect.

Also, different environments can change attitudes. Difficult environments tend to polarize attitudes; either everyone is conservative about taking risks of trying new things (except for a few 'heroic' characters) because small errors can result in the death of the whole society, or everyone becomes obsessed with risk-taking, as strength is seen as the only way to defeat one's environment.

Lots of these things. Only a few being religious.

Quote Perhaps a different definition of "innocent"? Perhaps we insist on finding and eliminating the ringleaders while they consider everyone who supports a policy, even passively, as responsible for that policy?


Maybe. I don't know. Differences in accepted methods can be a source of resentment.

Quote Nobody in the Twin Towers worked for the CIA, the KGB, and so on. And even when exterminating the guilty, a rational response would be solemn rather than joyous, would it not?


Well, now, what emotional response is most rational depends on your definition of rational. A warlike society (polarized, you see, to see two types of obstacles: those not dealt with, and those destroyed) might find great joy in the destruction of an enemy. And, again, this attitude is more likely in an extreme environment; since any problem in these environments may mean death, extreme action may be the only one they're used to taking.

Quote Nobody in the Twin Towers worked for the CIA, the KGB, and so on. And even when exterminating the guilty, a rational response would be solemn rather than joyous, would it not?


Well, now. You're talking about secretive organizations. Who knows where they are? Maybe they just see wealthy people, whom they consider enemies, and begin to associate "enemy" with "wealth." As a money target, it makes sense.

Or, maybe they are big believers in corporate responsibility. Since we vote, they may consider all of us part of the problem. I dunno. But these are possible answers.

Quote Do we enjoy hearing about all the Iraqis that have been killed over the past several years? Or all the Spanish killed in the train bombings? Or the misery in Darfur?


Some racist people, no doubt, do. And if you're hating an enemy, it's not a smart bomb. There's collateral damage. "Those people" are the problem. "Over there" somewhere. Which of them? "Do you think I care enough about my enemy to differentiate between those who are directly assaulting me, and those who merely support them? Kill 'em all!" If you get my point.

Of course, not all of these people hate us. Some are moderate in response and belief about us; they don't appear to be in the majority. And problems with corruption of Iraqi politicians which we support exacerbate the problem....

Quote And why are they poor and uneducated? They go to school for many years just as we do. "Taliban" translates into "student".


I will grant that this is, partly, a religious issue. Most of their education does appear to be religious. Their poverty, of course, is not caused by their religion, it's caused by their politicians taking more money than their share....basic greed.

Of course, there are many things to study; understanding one's neighbors and enemies requires you to spend most of your time in studying current events, politics, and other similar topics. Even a well-educated populace which didn't study these things (which don't create a great deal of wealth, on their own) might have trouble accepting those with a different culture. And an insular society might view those who studied such things with suspicion, making their opinions less valued.

And sociology and politics encompass facts from which it is possible to draw multitudinous conclusions. Which can be filtered through one's own prejudices. Check out the many books on these topics which are mutually contradictory, in America, alone.

Quote Why are we "other"? Why aren't we all brethren -- as pretty much every religion claims we should be?

Gee, you didn't even mention forcing the nation of Israel into their midst -- which for them is the big issue.


We are "other" because we're from "somewhere else." We are "other" because we have different ways of communicating feelings and intentions -- if I'm expecting something from you based on what you did, and you meant something different by it, I can use that as proof that you are deceitful. Or you might accidentally insult me.

We are also "other" for a bunch of other reasons; appearance, dress, military policy, and more. The Scots saw anyone who didn't charge into battle as a pansy. There're lots of things other than religion involved, there.

As far as Israel, sure, that's a big religious issue. But it's also a "war" issue. War and resentment and revenge are self-perpetuating. I'll not argue that religion is big in that one, though. As far as "forcing them" on the people of the area, that was a reward (which Balfour promised) for them mobilizing with the Allies in WWII.....there's a mix of things, there; religion, practicality, money, and so on. Religion, sure. But a lot more, too.

Heck, I think one of the reasons they're our allies is that, a.) they make at least an attempt at a stable political system (based upon more than despotism and corruption, though, they're far from perfect), and b.) they're one of the only ones in the region that doesn't decide, once every generation or two, to hate our guts. Oh...and c.) they don't accept political pressure to support those who like bombing airports, just to be left alone by those same nutcases.

Religion might be involved, there. But it's hard to forget that Syria supports those who do bombings; Saudi Arabia does, and so do most of the countries in the region. Whether or not they want to is another issue...for some, it might be blackmail...but it's still a reason to support someone who doesn't do it...even with their killing of locals...but I don't look for simple solutions to unsolvable problems. Random bombings do tend to make one overreact. They shot gramma, NUKE 'EM ALL! A common reaction, if you get my drift. Moderation is hard to value in both Iraq and Israel (and other places with shooting).
Msg: 232859
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:16 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232501 by Baqash
Quote As a grandmother who lives in a town full of road rage, a town where they have to put up billboards that say "Red means Stop" I displayed my possession of a firearm one time. Didn't have to use it. I believe it saved my life. I don't think I would call a permit bearing, gun toting grandmother a pansy. But if that is your perception, so be it. yes, equalizer is a good word.


Man, that sucks....sorry to hear it. But you lived...and that's good.
Msg: 232860
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:18 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232502 by Kirbert
Quote ) Either now or sometime in the past, such a spiritual need or longing was helpful to his survival, and those specimens of the human race lacking that particular trait tended to die without reproducing. Perhaps prayer helped him find food or water? Or perhaps the act of worship brought unity to his tribe that helped it survive?


Hmm....that begs the question, is such a spiritual need still helpful to man's survival? I mean, obviously we're experiencing some trouble with religion, but might it also be necessary? Again, dunno.
Msg: 232861
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:24 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232507 by Kayak Bandit
Quote I do feel a little bit badly that people are “ ganging up”on Kirbert.


I'll agree with Kay Ban, here. It does appear that Kirbirt is outnumbered by people who disagree with him, but then, that's not something we did on purpose. And as far as ganging, hmmm...do you mean we're being mean by disagreeing? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

We're not being intentionally rude or mean, if that helps.

And thanks for the support, kb....although I'm terrible at taking compliments, I appreciate the support. Now, all i need is your credit card....:) heh heh....

And, lest I get too big a head, I have TONS of flaws, so, let's not make more of me than is appropriate....worst case, I might believe ya.
Msg: 232862
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:26 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232516 by Kirbert
Quote suppose it coulda been worse. They could have made potholes illegal, and had the cops out there issuing the potholes tickets! After all, if you outlaw something, that makes it magically disappear, does it not?


Uh....outlaw potholes, and only outlaws will have potholes?

hey, with enough tickets, you might fill the pothole....
Msg: 232863
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:30 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232559 by Kirbert
Quote It's not that I believe in no god -- although I do. It's that I require at least some evidence or reason to support the things I do accept as true -- and there is zero evidence or reason to believe in a "creator". The only reason anyone believes it is, as someone else put it here, "because everyone is saying it."


Well, now; that's a heck of an assumption. Knowing that, for sure, requires both omniscience and telepathy.

In which case, do you have the next Derby winners?

Perhaps people have subjective or experiential reasons for believing in a deity. Perhaps, in the absence of "primary evidence" (directly supporting the belief), they make do with "secondary evidence" (circumstantial, perhaps, or things that might imply the existence of the supernatural, or whatever).
Msg: 232864
mudflinginfools Subject: Re: Displaying Periodic Table LTCs
Board: LTC: Trades and Trackers
Author: mudflinginfoolsProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:50 AM
P-1903F-5646M-7086Premium
Reply to: Msg 232807 by Boxer Lover47
We are taking them to our high school and hanging them in the Chemistry room... the teacher there is a good friend. She was my teacher, she is now my daughters.
mff
Msg: 232865
mudflinginfools Subject: Re: 3rd Annual International Letterbox Planting Day
Board: State: Massachusetts
Author: mudflinginfoolsProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 2:53 AM
P-1903F-5646M-7086Premium
Reply to: Msg 232765 by zess the treehuggers
You have no idea... and its all because of my teenagers Mother's day present! LOL!

mud
Msg: 232866
Papa Bear Subject: Stick a Fork in Them
Board: Sports Emporium
Author: Papa BearProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:12 AM
P-186F-1352M-104
The Penguins are done. Stick a fork in them. The CUP is headed back to Detroit.
Msg: 232867
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:15 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232590 by recycledpaperbags
Quote i understand, also realize now-a-days we actually need them for our protection but i was just saying we didn't ALWAYS need them... there are even ways to get around needing bullets


Arrows and crossbow bolts and slingstones...basically, any ranged weapon can help a weak man against a stronger man. The gun doesn't require any strength to use (though the crossbow requires less than the bow, and the slingstone requires the most accuracy, the longest prep, and the least strength [long moment arm]).

the gun, however, requires less paranoia on the part of the user, since it is fast....

As far as not needing them, well, it depends on what you mean. People have died from strong people for thousands of years...a gun might have kept them alive....but if you consider staying alive not a need...
Msg: 232868
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:18 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232593 by DoubleSaj and Old Blue
Quote I learned something today: Being more than 5 decades into this life, I realize that the word "pansy" may mean something different to me than younger people but never does it suggest to me anything homophobic. Being eager no to offend though, I asked our lovely lesbian daughter if the word "pansy" was offensive to her. Her first response was to ask us what context it was put in. When we told her, she said, "Huh? How old are the offended people?" She suggested that 30-somethings might be offended by this word whereas 20-somethings are definitely not. Interesting.

~~Doublesaj~~


Wanna hear something REALLY weird? I had a lesbian friend (and too bad, too; she was cute and I would'a asked her out) who kept using the word "gay" as a pejorative.....and gave me a mental jar every time she did it.

"Oh, that is so gay."

Me: *wobble* ....uh...what?
Msg: 232869
Subject: Re: Nasty Log Notes/HH
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:19 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232597 by DoubleSaj and Old Blue
Quote No surprise--the rules are WAY different there I hear! (SO glad I live in Calif!)


*snort*....I'm guessing you don't live in Compton.
Msg: 232870
The Little Foxes Subject: Re: Displaying Periodic Table LTCs
Board: LTC: Trades and Trackers
Author: The Little FoxesProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:22 AM
P-169F-987M-4167Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232864 by mudflinginfools
I haven't decided how to display them, but I'm doing some serious thinking about it. I have a wall in my living room...... our "decor" is eclectic at best (to put it politely), so I've just started putting up stuff I like and to heck with everything else ;-))

I'm wondering if a poster frame will fit them - something where I can access the back to arrange them like the periodic table. Guess I need to lay 100 cards out on the bed or something to get an idea ;-))

I like that spinner thingy on that 7 gypsies site, but they are rather proud of it. I could probably stand the price of the spinner, but it would be another $30 or so for the little plasticy things. Wondering if those are standard Rolodex size.... oh, I guess that's what that punch thing is for.........

Well, I still like the idea of putting them on the wall. I know my comic book store guy has these poster frames that he gets from Ultrapro, that's a possibility.

I'm talking to myself - woke up early and couldn't go back to sleep, darn it.....

Mama Fox
Msg: 232871
Subject: Re: My first!
Board: Hitchhikers, Cooties, and Fleas
Author: haiku4uProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:37 AM
P-2F-7M-29Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232311 by vee-dub bug
Yeah! Set free my first hitch hiker. How exciting.


Congrats!

My wife and I are very new to this game (letterboxing now for all of 20 days) and we just found our first HH yesterday! It was so cool to find a "bonus" inside another box. I hope your HH travels far and wide and you are able to track it journeys.

Opening the box
reveals a delightful gift
hitchhiker inside!

haiku4u
Msg: 232872
Bobguyman Subject: How do we keep this as our permanent background?
Board: Letterboxing Help Desk
Author: BobguymanProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:52 AM
P-2F-75M-2082Inactive > 1 year
Is there any way we can keep this fish background as our permanent background??

~BOB~
Msg: 232873
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 3:54 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232620 by Kirbert
Quote That's not true at all. This sort of misunderstanding comes from a common misinterpretation of the word "theory" as though it's synonymous with "hypothesis". Occurrences can be proven -- and it's easily proven that creatures have evolved. "Theory" is the term applied to the line of reasoning offered to explain why those occurrences happened. As such, a theory inherently cannot be proven, since you can never be sure there isn't another explanation -- but theories can be disproven (by demonstrating that the explanation doesn't work), and they can be confirmed or validated usually by using the theory to predict future occurrences. There is no doubt at all that the theory of evolution is a valid explanation for the way creatures change over time; it has been confirmed and validated literally hundreds of times, and there has never been even a shred of evidence indicating any weakness in it at all. As of this time, nobody has proposed an alternative theory of any sort. Its acceptance among people whose minds aren't clouded by mythology is not just widespread, it is in fact 100%.


Well, actually, a number of problems with Darwin's theory; even most evolutionists agree that evolution, if true, is different than Darwin imagined. There are too many problems with the fossil record, and with intermediate states, and with the actual observed occurence of new species without influence of breeding or survival of fittest.

As far as Creation vs. Evolution, comparison of the Gospels with Genesis shows that they aren't necessarily in any conflict, except to state that God was responsible for what DID happen. Luke remarks that his recounting is important, in that it is chronological (in order) which implies that old Hebrew writings may have jumped around a bit....which would explain the variations in the gospels (if they were written topically), and would make a much more interesting reading of Genesis....if the Bible implies that things may not, always, have included all details, and may be jumping around, timewise, I have to figure it's a guideline, contained IN the text, for READING the text....

Evolution theory, as it stands, is incomplete; Creation theory, as it stands, is poorly written and researched. I think they're both junk science; people want to defend their positions, and so reach conclusions pre-emptively, and before the science part has been completed....

Besides; the theist - antitheist debate is really looking into infinity and guessing what lies beyond it...what Christians dislike is the arrogance of the scientific community in saying "This is fact" in a time that the "fact" is still being tested; the tendency to draw conclusions and state them as fact, rather than theory (two points in a straight line could mean a line, a ray, a segment, a sinewave, or a Ford Taurus), the tendency to equate science with antitheism (when you can't prove God one way or the other; Christians who claim science proves God annoy me), and their own lack of questioning something that seems to prove their pet theory (especially if they believe that it disproves God). Scientists need to remember how to say, "We THINK this is what this means."

I hate the whole argument; people spend so much time defending their trenches, that the other (non-religion-debate-related), more important implications of findings are ignored. And the tendency to hypnotize on the debate keeps us from doing the intermediate, and non-associated science.

It is always necessary to question science; destructive testing (much as I'd hate it, if it was MY finding) keeps us from going more wacko than we already do.
Msg: 232874
Lindsays Snowman Subject: Re: Field Trips and penguin boxes
Board: State: Ohio
Author: Lindsays SnowmanProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 4:21 AM
P-61F-3130M-327Premium
Reply to: Msg 232794 by Mama Stork
Hi,

I am now truly sorry that I was such a wimp about Cowabunga!!! Oh well....

PP's boxes and logbooks are amazing and I will miss them. But I have found most of her's in Louisville.

As for the Queen City; I have found almost all of them and now have to venture farther and farther from home. But I do look each day for new plants and do notice some new people in the area. And some are planted on the west side of town!! For those of you who know Cincinnatian's and know that if I live on the East side what that means!!!!!! I have to venture into unknown territory....

Today, the exHarley guy and I will be moving Lindsay of Lindsay's Snowman fame from her dorm into an apartment. And it is her 20th BD today. I am really afraid for what we will find, worry about whether this apartment that we have not seen will be big enough for all of her stuff ( and that she is sharing with two other roommates, but one has sublet it for the summer to two guys and there is one bathroom) and how the apartment will have been left since the previous occupants moved out YESTERDAY!!!!! Oh does this bring back the memories.

I hope that all of you enjoy the Greenville event; I am sorry to miss it.

LS
Msg: 232875
Subject: Re: free to say what you want in a LB or HH?????
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Author: pika rampant sinisterProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 4:28 AM
P-7F-25M-364Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232676 by Mr Yuk
Quote Not only did I find it hard to believe humanity could abide this, but what about this LOVING God letting innocents suffer and die everyday. Original Sin is nice to parlay about in a discussion with your bridge group, but it's a hard sell when looking at a kid who has bugs crawling in and out of his leg.

I think our priviledged society allows Westerners to accept the theory of a loving God. In early American times, God was a heck of a lot more vengeful. In third world countries, God is downright aloof or even cruel.


Well, actually, I did some soul-searching about this, and I came to some rather difficult conclusions. As in, difficult to bear.

First, God gives us an ability to choose. That is a hard thing. If he is to have people with whom he has a relationship, they have to be non-puppets. Socializing with puppets is unsatisfying, for anyone over the age of 12.

Second, if God keeps us from USING the ability to choose, we simply have a more complicated puppet relationship with him. And he's basically given us a self-defeating trait.

If we are immediately punished for doing bad, but rewarded for doing good, how can he, as the judge of the living, prove whether we are doing good because we're greedy, or because we are 'of goodwill?'

Why is he the judge of the living? One: he made us, so he has authority granted by that. Two: he has more power than anyone, so he has the ability to enforce. Three: he was here first, so any precedence of law is in his favor. Four: He is omniscient, so only he has the necessary perspective to judge justly. Five: ultimately, there is no further "up" people can go, when they make their complaints about what is injust.

That's one reason that he does, sometimes, interfere with human history. As the Bible says, "and their cry came up unto God..." But there are a number of reasons he doesn't do it, much. One, it creates great suffering. Think about Pharaoh's armies; those men died in the Red (or Reed) Sea; what happened to their families? The plagues also gave suffering. So he seems to save it for times when it is the last of the last choices.

Two, if he interferes, too much, again we are puppets. He must give us, to judge, "enough rope to hang ourselves." And if he makes it too obvious that only good will succeed, you'll end up with folks parroting good to hide their bad. We already have that with politicians.

That's one of the reasons we're supposed to be "the hands of Christ." Since God keeps himself in certain behaviors to preserve his role as judge and to preserve our ability to choose, WE are supposed to be the ones who fix all this stuff, since we are not limited by being affected by the ethical requirements of being the judge of the universe. This suffering is on US, not God.

There's more, but this is the key issue, for me. And, I know, many atheists will pooh-pooh this argument, because they do not believe that a cosmic judge is NECESSARY. As someone who has seen some of the evil that people do, I really feel that a cosmic judge IS necessary. Not out of vindictiveness, but sheer necessity.
Msg: 232876
Subject: Re: Love the fish background
Board: Atlas Quest Announcements
Author: condoProfileContactLogbookNote
Date: Jun 1, 2008 4:30 AM
P-4F-73M-755Inactive > 1 year
Reply to: Msg 232848 by prairie dog
oh, i love this. have to run and check to sea........if it is one of our picks for preferences :J

condo
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