I think you should just add a brief note to your clues describing how you made the stamp.

I think what it comes down to is that the new category you're proposing would be so rare that it makes more sense for the stamps you describe to just be listed under custom-made.

For example, I just looked at active boxes on AQ in Michigan. There are 1,777 hand-carved stamps, 176 store-bought, and 21 custom-made. If someone is seeking out carves that are something other than hand-carved and store-bought it's easy to search on custom-made. You can only slice the salami so thin. :)

I don't believe the new proposed type would be so rare. Technology is increasing every day, so although I'm proposing a new type, I'm not necessarily proposing that laser-engraving be the only method of carving within that type. I would like to leave it open for other methods as well. But I'm aware it's important to differentiate itself from being hand-carved, which is why the 'self-made' type should include "not hand-carved" in the type itself, or at the very least, in the definition.

My stamp was not made by someone else, so it does not belong to the definition of a custom-made stamp.

What's wrong with slicing the salami one more time? If you had three guests over for dinner and then a fourth showed up, would you refuse to offer an additional slice? :)

I'm trying to see what arguments are out there, either for or against a new stamp type.

An argument like "that's the way it's always been" doesn't hold much of a basis and is simply resistant to change.

An argument for limiting the number of types also seems resistant to change.

If a stamp does not fit in one of the three types, why not create a new one?

Since custom made is such a small category already, it may make more sense to broaden the definition to include self made designs. I suspect Ryan would be open to that....

RogueOne,
In reading your description and thoughts, I think an adjustment to the definition of 'custom-made' stamps probably would make sense. I am aware of at least one other boxer they makes custom made in a similar fashion as you and the two of you will be joined by others no doubt as technology to make these grows more developed and less costly. Maybe an administrator can adjust the definition so the business made portion does not select out home custom made work? That would eliminate your dilemma of feeling your stamp style doesn't fit any of the current three categories and would capture a broad sampling of 'custom made' while distinguishing them from hand carved and store purchased.

Instead of adding a new category, the categories of stamps ought to be changed. Store bought doesn't make much sense since one can buy hand-made stamps or custom stamps at stores (Etsy). Custom, according to my Funk & Wagnels, means made to individual specification so hand-made stamps could be custom stamps as well if they're made to individual specification. Maybe the categories ought to just be mass-produced, or unique. I'd think the ones you make would be unique.

I do photopolymer stamps. I Mark them as custom-made. Since they're people who believe these are not real stamps? I always warn then what type of stamos I create and let them know that if it's not to their preference they can simply not find my boxes.

Thank you. I can see the point of changing the definition of custom-made to include self-made stamps. But 'custom-made' implies that the owner did not make the stamp, even if the definition is changed. It feels odd saying, "this was custom-made... by me... for me."

Just saw Wronghat's post. And I totally agree with the points that something can be store-bought even if it's hand-carved or custom-made. I think there is more to expand on the thought of having only two categories of 'machine-made' and 'unique' though. If I make a stamp on my machine, and I never do it again, it would be unique.

I believe these are the most important characteristics in a stamp:
1) Is the design original, copied, or a derivative?
2) Who made it?
3) How was it made?
4) Is the stamp unique? (this question can probably be answered from the results of the first three)

I think the most valuable stamp would have an original design and was hand-carved by the owner. If it's hand-carved, but not by the owner or is a copied design, they shouldn't be on the same level as the previous example. The least valuable stamp would obviously be mass-produced and machine-carved. So there is plenty of room in the middle for a few different types.

The definition of 'hand-carved' states: "Letterboxers, as a whole, prefer hand-carved stamps since they are guaranteed to be unique and personalized and it's fun to see what other people can do."

If two letterboxers print out the same design found online, trace it, transfer it, and then hand-carve their stamps... how unique are those stamps? Of course there will be very small details that make them inherently different, but overall, they are not unique or personalized, though they are still considered 'hand-carved.' And seeing "what other people can do" captures the essence of someone making the stamp, not which method was used.

I believe we all have the same basic values in a stamp, but not sure exactly how they should be defined or categorized. It's easy to argue the stamp types should remain the same. It's harder to redefine them.

There are plenty of scenarios to choose from for arguments. More or different types would allow for all stamps to be included.

Since custom made is such a small category already, it may make more sense to broaden the definition to include self made designs.

This seems like the logical solution.

Wow... didn't know about photopolymer stamps. Sweet! I'm glad there is another example of stamps being self-made without being hand-carved. I want to let you know, as a fellow maker, I see the value in your skill and wish there was a better way to define it.

This seems like the logical solution.

It's not the logical solution... it's the easiest solution.

That's basically the definition of a custom made stamp. It's your own design, but if you wanted to you could make a second one that was exactly the same, and there are presumably no flaws or tooling marks that you'd get from hand carving.

Thank you!! I had to go to photopolymer stamps because I have serious arthritis in my hands and for a time there I could not carve. I'm on new medication that allows me to carve but not as well as I used to so I make both types of stamps now.... I appreciate the support!!

That's basically the definition of a custom made stamp. It's your own design, but if you wanted to you could make a second one that was exactly the same, and there are presumably no flaws or tooling marks that you'd get from hand carving.

I agree that because a machine could make a stamp, it could also make a near identical one. However, a machine-made stamp does not imply that it was a custom stamp. A custom stamp implies it was made by one person for a different person.

I makes more sense to change a few words in a definition, since the definition seems overly specific and the intent seems to be based on preferences for DIY carving, with custom and in-between: hand-carved (unique for each carver, but possibly a common image, possibly unique on both counts), machine carved (possibly unique image), store-bought (common: one for every Michael's).

Whether or not a fee is paid or someone cuts/carves it for you is less relevant to me as a finder, and is designated with the Carver distinction in the listing.

I do think there is room to note an original image, mostly b/c I'm jealous of anyone who can do that.

If we did it your way, then we would need yet another thin slice for those who have asked another carver to carve an image they have provided. And another for a planter carved stamp based on an image they sought from someone else. And another for a planter hand-carved stamp with a planter hand-drawn image. And another for a computer generated image, but a hand-carved stamp. And another for an original planter image and a hand-carved stamp. And another for an image carved by someone else, but carved by you. I think I just got lost. Or redundant. You get the idea.

You could go down so many "trails" trying to define what constitutes a stamp category when to me the value of a stamp is the trail you find or plant it on. As I type this I've just logged a find after hiking 3 miles for one box. Best stamp I've found today.

If we did it your way, then we would need yet another thin slice for those who have asked another carver to carve an image they have provided. And another for . . . And another for . . . And another for . . . And another for . . . And another for . . . I think I just got lost. Or redundant. You get the idea.

Totally agree. NOT because "that's just the way it's always been", but because I don't think anyone really cares about that much detail about the exact origin of the stamp. Store bought (usually meaning sold commercially, and not unique), hand-carved (carver is generally credited, may or may not be the planter), and custom (basically everything else, whether you made it or had it made). I just don't see the need to have a separate category for every single possibility.

I agree that it is machine-carved. But the definition for custom-made specifically mentions that someone else (at a business) is making the stamp. In my case, I am making it myself.

I argued this point a few years ago, except with photopolymers. The consensus was to stick with "Custom Made". However, the definition of that term should be updated in the glossary to include any stamps made from one's own image but not hand-carved.

This seems like the logical solution.

Even an act of desperation can sometimes be the logical solution. ;-)

:D

Since custom made is such a small category already, it may make more sense to broaden the definition to include self made designs. I suspect Ryan would be open to that....

After finding this discussion by accident while searching the messages for something and getting a little dizzy from trying to read and scroll through all of them, the one thing I can agree with is perhaps broadening the category of "custom" to include self made and created designs. And I see no reason why it would be a big deal for the creator of the stamp to mention the process in the clues.

I feel very strongly that the category of 'hand carved' should be left alone. This has nothing to do with the fact that it's "always been this way". After spending many hours or perhaps days carving a detailed stamp by hand and getting sore shoulders, a stiff back and a numb rear end from sitting and peering through a magnifying lamp, I want my stamps to be called *hand carved*. Because they are.

See, I don't think it does imply that it was made by one person for another. I think it implies it was designed specifically for this application and made by a machine. Whether that machine was owned and operated by the designer or by someone else is, IMHO, neither implied nor relevant.

Oh boy, this is one of the most ponderous threads I have ever had the misfortune of reading. You're putting waaaayyyyyyyy to much importance on the semantics of a definition of an aspect of a hobby that really has no set rules. As great as this site is, Ryan didn't invent letterboxing and AtlasQuest is not the "be all end all" absolute authority of letterboxing. And although AQ is THE BEST letterboxing resource that I'm aware of, the hobby itself is what you make of it. Every boxer I know uses AQ as a resource and a guideline for the hobby, not as a rule book.... Relax, this topic really isn't worth nearly the amount of discussion it's already been given. Stop splitting hairs about your stamp. It's a 'custom-made' stamp for God's sake.... And honestly, you actually answered your own question in your original post, when you cut/pasted the definition of what a custom made stamp is, saying the design is "taken to a rubber stamp store or some such place".... HELLO, YOUR GARAGE IS 'SOME SUCH PLACE'.

Oh boy, this is one of the most ponderous threads I have ever had the misfortune of reading. You're putting waaaayyyyyyyy to much importance on the semantics of a definition of an aspect of a hobby that really has no set rules..........

..........Relax, this topic really isn't worth nearly the amount of discussion it's already been given. Stop splitting hairs about your stamp. It's a 'custom-made' stamp for God's sake.... And honestly, you actually answered your own question in your original post, when you cut/pasted the definition of what a custom made stamp is, saying the design is "taken to a rubber stamp store or some such place". YOUR GARAGE IS 'SOME SUCH PLACE'.

Well thank you. Someone had to say it. That discussion really took everyone swirling down the AQ rabbit hole. I just didn't want to see "hand carved" get messed with. Back slowly away from "hand carved".

https://memecrunch.com/meme/9TWCL/back-away-slowly

For example, I just looked at active boxes on AQ in Michigan. There are 1,777 hand-carved stamps, 176 store-bought, and 21 custom-made.

Exactly. According to the AQ stats page, Custom-made stamps are 0.8% of the listed stamps! Why add another category that will have 0.01%?? Then what if a letterboxer owns a stamp store? They didn't bring it somewhere else to make but they also didn't make it at home. It that another category??

I am a stamp snob. I will find any box that looks interesting, but I don't even bother stamping store bought stamps. I want unique reminders for my finds. I prefer hand-carved but if it was custom designed for that box then I really don't care who or where it was made.

What's wrong with slicing the salami one more time? If you had three guests over for dinner and then a fourth showed up, would you refuse to offer an additional slice?

It's really not just carving off another piece.
Think of it as filling buckets. If one bucket is 90% full, one bucket is 9.2% full, and the last one has a few drops in it (0.8%) would you really add another bucket for something that is basically no different than the last one and will have an even smaller amount in it? Or would you slightly change the label on that third bucket so that it might reach a whole 1% of the items?

(These are the true numbers from the AQ stats page)

So far there seems to be a few different points of view:
1) Change nothing. Things are fine the way they are.
2) Change the definition of "custom-made." There is a case for more types of stamps to be included in this definition.
3) Change everything and see how many riots will begin :)

At the very least, I would like to see the definition of "custom-made" to be changed to include stamps that are self-made by letterboxers. As you all can see in this thread, there are boxers other than myself that make their own stamps and would like to see a way for their stamps to be valued in a better way.

I've thought about this subject over the weekend, and especially while I was at the "Things that Bite" event (which was AWESOME! Great job PiggyJaunt!). Although my position for an extra type or possible riot-ensuing overhaul haven't really changed, I would be satisfied if the definition of "custom-made" was changed to include stamps that are not hand-carved, but still are the result of hours of hard-work.

How many of y'all would support a change to the definition of "custom-made?"

Add a category? Change a definition? Modify a glossary entry?
I honestly fail to see what all the kerfuffle is about.
Though admittedly, it's that mostly I just wanted to use the word "kerfuffle".

*whistling innocently*

As someone who disagrees with adding another category let me be the first to congratulate you on your current capitulatory stance. While I applaud your ingenuity in the way you create your stamps, in the big picture it's just a means to an end. Speaking for myself, it's the search, the hike and the surprise. While I'm not a stamp snob I do appreciate a unique effort which your efforts seem to satisfy.

I agree with Kirbert's interpretation of "custom" (and thus the current verbiage seems to work) but I wouldn't vote against expanding the definition to include 'everything else'.

Booshmen: Well said!

RogueOne: Umpteen people have already commented. I thought you were done with this topic, but you were just away for a weekend event... The thing is, it doesn't matter how many polls you take; Ryan is the one person who decides what he does with his website.

If you are going to continue to pursue this topic, I'd like to propose re-naming this thread "Beating a Dead Horse".