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Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882060 by Sir Braemoor
Dec 30, 2014 8:22am
Thread (disabled) Board
I agree with Sir Braemoor. Over the years I have seen a ton of things that just seem like questionable finds by so many people and some people very adamant that some are right and some are wrong. Oftentimes, the same person saying one is wrong is engaging in another that someone else sees as equally wrong. I've seen all of these over the years:

  • 100 finds or more in a day (timeframe seems questionable(
  • Taking someone else's logbook on a trail without them and both log
  • Single box with 5 stamps listed as a series on a boxer's door step
  • mailed images counting as finds (Ive even been asked to mail images feom my planted boxes so they can log as a find because they made an unsuccesful attempt)
  • stamping parties prior to an event where everyone there gets the find before theboxes are planted
  • Obvious HIPS boxes all in one location counting as traditional finds
  • Just finding a tupperware lid and counting it as a dind
  • Fake listings
  • a group all plant together and decide who wants it as an F count and who wants as Pcount

And probably a lot of people have done one of these at some point or just view it differently. At pointpount traveling X MarkstheSpot boxes were widely acceptedas traditionals for many years. I thought ofthem that way too butabout a year ago all of those were changed to a different catagory.

So things change, opinions vary. The only thing important for this site is cleaning up wrong listings that will show up in searches. If it doesnt mess up that (which the Admin would then determine) then it isnt anything really worth attempting to enforce.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #881977 by System
Dec 30, 2014 8:35am
Thread (disabled) Board
If the stamp is indeed hidden....and folks are given WOM clues....and have to find the box....

Yeah. It's a find.
And it's still a find when it is moved to a completely different place with completely different clues, and found by the same person that found it before.
I'm not sure that I would count it again...or even go look a second time unless the location was of interest to me, but it is a different place, different clues, I'm also assuming a different logbook, and different experience...except for the image.

Many folks use stamps in more than a one way.
They may use it for LTCs. Then plant the same stamp in a traditional Letterbox.
I bet some folks could have both the LTC and the traditional find image. Would that Traditional find then not count?
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882080 by System
Dec 30, 2014 8:56am
Thread (disabled) Board
I agree....if the boxes are just sitting there and friends are called over to get the image......No!
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882080 by System
Dec 30, 2014 10:14am
Thread (disabled) Board
As others have said, it doesn't seem like a fun way to play the game. It seems, instead, like a way for people to pad their numbers without actually planting or finding anything.

I agree and understand how you feel. Unfortunately, there are always going to be rule benders and cheaters in any game. Run your own race, ignore the F-count - comparison is the thief of joy!
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882081 by Yak King blues
Dec 30, 2014 11:50am
Thread (disabled) Board
Well, if you wanna get picky about it: What if you're with a group and out on the trail, and one or two members of the group are leading the way and find the box while the rest have been chattering away about their husbands or their kids or whatnot. While the finders stamp in, everyone else strolls over and stamps in as well. Should that count as a find for everyone there?
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #881977 by System
Dec 30, 2014 12:59pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I have a word of mouth box. It is planted on private property and sometimes I need to move it to another place on the property. (That is why I don't post the clues; I don't want people looking for it with old clues. If people ask, I tell them where it is.) Friends were given the location and know when it is moved. Some share the location with others and that's fine. There have been events near the box and the host tells people where it is on that day. I feel that is a good example of a word of mouth box. A box that people sign into before it is planted could also be listed as an "other" box and recorded as such. But then others would say it is an extra plant.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882073 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 3:23pm
Thread (disabled) Board
(Ive even been asked to mail images feom my planted boxes so they can log as a find because they made an unsuccesful attempt)

I've done something like that, but never intended to log as a find.

I twice attempted a box that the planted had goofed up on the writing of the clue , just a simple mistake but it made the difference of not being able to find the box.

The planter corrected her mistake and others were able to then find the box, I have stents in my legs and had hiked miles and miles that day, my body said you have reached your limit and I didn't take a 3rd hike out to the box.

I asked the planter if they would send me the image and they said, "WHY would I???

I only wanted the image or maybe an LTC because others had said what an awesome carve it was. I NEVER intended to log it as a find.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882073 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 4:35pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Just finding a tupperware lid and counting it as a find

I confess, one time in the middle of a reasonably long hike, I came to the spot for the 3rd of a 4-box series, opened up the L&L, unzipped the baggie, took out the logbook, unwrapped the piece of felt, and found a little plastic cow inside!!! I inked up that sucker, stamped it in my logbook as best I could, and took a picture of the original stamp in the logbook. Yes, I logged it as a find, and notified the planter that their stamp had apparently been swapped out by a geocacher. Not technically a legitimate "find", I know, but it was close enough for me that day, and I still chuckle when I see the "cow stamp" in my logbook.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882162 by Wise Wanderer
Dec 30, 2014 4:52pm
Thread (disabled) Board
You are just proving my point. There's a lot of different ways people do things. And some agree and some don't. And the same people that don't agree with the original post might look at my list and have done one of those things knowing it was "not technically a legitimate find" as you say, but added their own reasons. So it's simply easier not to compare and judge.

Now if it impacts other boxers it can matter:
So you may have counted it in your own personal paper logbook and it doesn't impact anyone so who cares what you want to count!
If you logged it as a find on AQ, then you could be misleading others into thinking there's actually a letterbox there (this particular site defines a letterbox as containing a stamp) so then it may matter.

Basically, as long as it doesn't impact anyone else's fun, it really doesn't matter.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882162 by Wise Wanderer
Dec 30, 2014 4:58pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I confess, I logged it as a find

You just messed up. Now we're going to have to call the LB police and have you locked up.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882163 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 5:00pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Exactly!!! When does this topic hit the Dead Lemmings or Ferrets or whatever the heck board it goes to???
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882165 by TallDave and ThimbeLinda
Dec 30, 2014 5:27pm
Thread (disabled) Board
When does this topic hit the Dead Lemmings or Ferrets or whatever the heck board it goes to???

I don't understand why this question is asked every time someone thinks that everyone ELSE should stop discussing something. It will die a natural death when no one has anything further to say. If you are already done with it, well, that's why there's an "ignore thread" button. Why not use it??
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882150 by airstream dreams
Dec 30, 2014 5:33pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I twice attempted a box that the planted had goofed up on the writing of the clue

Poop happens! Wouldn't it become tiresome to find every box we set out for.

I asked the planter if they would send me the image and they said, "WHY would I???

Totally the prerogative of the planter.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882169 by Wise Wanderer
Dec 30, 2014 5:36pm
Thread (disabled) Board
We hunt plastic in the woods for FUN!!! 'Score' it as you will, why is everyone so gung ho on policing how everyone else plays the game???
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882163 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 6:56pm
Thread (disabled) Board
You could log it as a find , then put a comment that the stamp has been replaced with a plastic object and future finders would not be mislead .
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882173 by dingus dufus
Dec 30, 2014 7:02pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I don't expect to find every box i search for, thank you.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882073 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 10:44pm
Thread (disabled) Board
At pointpount traveling X MarkstheSpot boxes were widely acceptedas traditionals for many years. I thought ofthem that way too butabout a year ago all of those were changed to a different catagory.

Aha! That would explain why my find count changed. I didn't track it for a long time and when I started doing so again I couldn't get my actual and online logbook count to sync. I didn't feel like going back through 15 logbooks to see where the disconnect was so I just lived with it. Now I know.

I obviously missed whatever discussion there was on this. What was the rationale?
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882204 by Frankie and Benjy
Dec 30, 2014 10:59pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I obviously missed whatever discussion there was on this. What was the rationale?

There was no public discussion. It was just a private decision which the planter consented to.
Different regions of the country viewed things differently, that's all.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882205 by The Wolf Family
Dec 30, 2014 11:12pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Huh. OK, I guess. Although it seems odd that that one and one other box now show up as personal travelers when they're not what I think of as PTs. Water under the bridge at this point.

I think I'll head over to the suggestion board and wish for an auto-generated notification when a find has its type changed.

Thanks for the info, Mama Wolf.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882206 by Frankie and Benjy
Dec 31, 2014 4:45am
Thread (disabled) Board
I think I'll head over to the suggestion board and wish for an auto-generated notification when a find has its type changed.

Thank you! I asked for this a couple of years ago.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882162 by Wise Wanderer
Dec 31, 2014 5:07am
Thread (disabled) Board
found a little plastic cow inside!!! I inked up that sucker, stamped it in my logbook as best I could

I saw this entire episode play out in my head as I read this.
Now everyone in my office is wondering what can possibly be so funny at the receptionists desk.
TOO FUNNY.

As for the "WOM" issue ..... we have experienced several similar things over the years that have had the "thats not right" feeling. Sometimes my feelings are hurt because I think that people are "Cheating" , but most of the time, I just feel bad for them because like any "Game", if you cheat enough, nobody will want to play with you.

Dina B. Seeker
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882215 by theseekers1108
Dec 31, 2014 5:29am
Thread (disabled) Board
As for the "WOM" issue ..... we have experienced several similar things over the years that have had the "thats not right" feeling. Sometimes my feelings are hurt because I think that people are "Cheating" , but most of the time, I just feel bad for them because like any "Game", if you cheat enough, nobody will want to play with you.

Well, it sounds like a group of people benefit from the WOM boxes, so I think they'll all keep playing.

I'm someone who likes rules (it's part of my personality), so I used to be really bothered by stuff like this. Finally, though, I realized that someone else's F- and P-counts have absolutely nothing to do with me. So now I just shrug and go for a hike, which is the part of letterboxing that I love (the hiking, not the shrugging).

Just don't get me started on how I feel about people not rehiding boxes well, though, because that affects all of us! But that's a whole other topic.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882214 by Lovebirds-NC
Dec 31, 2014 3:08pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I asked for this a couple of years ago.

That doesn't bode well for a second request, but I've asked! Keep your fingers crossed.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882206 by Frankie and Benjy
Dec 31, 2014 11:03pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Although it seems odd that that one and one other box now show up as personal travelers when they're not what I think of as PTs.

They _ARE_ personal travelers, it is just the person changes on them. But if you don't find the person with the box, you can't stamp them. Therefore, meeting a person is required therefore, it is a PT.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882326 by Eidolon
Dec 31, 2014 11:26pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Therefore, meeting a person is required therefore, it is a PT.

OK, that makes sense. Although I think an argument could be made that they are WOM boxes.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882327 by Frankie and Benjy
Jan 1, 2015 12:36am
Thread (disabled) Board
Although I think an argument could be made that they are WOM boxes.

If you made that argument, pretty much all personal travelers could be called WOM boxes, so why have an option for personal travelers at all?

If you have to find a person to get a box, it's a personal traveler. Let's not try to make exceptions because that's a slippery slope that leads to nothing good. Doesn't matter if the person changes.... you just transfer the owner from person to person and it's an adopted personal traveler box (and will even show up as an adopted personal traveler in the owner's AQ logbook). I don't really care what you want to call it for your personal logbook, but for listing purposes on AQ, it's a personal traveler.

-- Ryan
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882332 by Green Tortuga
Jan 1, 2015 12:52am
Thread (disabled) Board
I seem to have hit a nerve, for which I apologize. I was just making a personal observation, not trying to lobby to change a decision that was apparently made some time ago.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882332 by Green Tortuga
Jan 1, 2015 7:17am
Thread (disabled) Board
If you have to find a person to get a box, it's a personal traveler.

UNLESS it's in a shop... or so it seems to be with other boxes...
This has always been pretty gray with those boxes. They are unique.

This one has always been a real traditional located in a shop that is accessible whenever the shop is open and been treated as a WOM for many years (as all the others ones were initially treated). Anyone who has ever found it knows that to be the case. You walk up to the counter and ask for it just like any other shop owned box.

But you can't really tell that from the clue. And there's no WOM icon on it. In the past when it was listed as a traditional, it wasn't really a problem (people would see the clue and ask). But now with the owner not attending any events for years, it will never show up in any searches anymore. And it's one heck of an amazing box!!

I still pass it on as a WOM clue and people just list it as a traditional find under Unlisted boxes (assuming premium membership or hat day), but there aren't that many of us who are left to remember it and pass it on. I could update the clue with a COMMENT as I have with other boxes, but as a PT it's not going to show up in anyone's searches anyway now.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882073 by The Wolf Family
Jan 1, 2015 7:31am
Thread (disabled) Board
100 finds or more in a day (timeframe seems questionable)

That depends where you are. I've found 50 boxes in a day several times, and that was only a 6 hour walk in the woods. I quit because I was sick of boxing, not because I ran out of boxes or daylight.

A park near me has 250 boxes in it. A series near me has 51 boxes on a 6 mile hike.
Re: WOM questions
Board: Letterbox Chatter
Reply to: #882358 by RIclimber
Jan 1, 2015 8:45am
Thread (disabled) Board
That depends where you are.

No matter where you are there is still only 24 hrs in a day. :)
I'm not saying that it's not possible, just that it's mathematically unlikely: 100 boxes in a day = a box every 15 minutes in a 24 hr period with no sleeping or stopping to eat (unless I've not done the math right?).

BUT what I've seen is that with boxes packed that close together, you have a group where people all branch off and fetch boxes. Only one member of the group is actually following the clue and seeing the location and oftentimes it's series with no logbooks.

I've NEVER done 100 in a day myself so it might be possible, but I have no intention of finding out. The most I did was 42 in a day and the boxes were literally within a couple of feet of each other (the majority of them in someone's backyard) and I just found it to be tedious after a while. Later, someone just gathered them all up, put them on a picnic table, everyone stamped, and they weren't put back because they were temp boxes. I guess they weren't into stamping every 2 feet either. *shrug* But their "finds" counted the same as mine (they got even more, in fact, since they got all of the boxes when I just got tired of unpacking and repacking and rehiding -- a step, they didn't have to do).

But I've seen enough people say they have done it over the years to just shrug it off. And if Eidolon has, I'd believe it. I KNOW he doesn't sleep or eat on a boxing frenzy. LOL! I guess I just don't have that level of endurance to do it legitimately!