Skip to Content
Register · Login
About Theme

A Letterboxing Community

Atlas Quest
Search Edit Search

Read Thread: Show Finds

Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817902 by Green Tortuga
Dec 1, 2013 4:24am
Thread (disabled) Board
Something like, "It took me 4 tries to find the dang box, but I finally found it! Yippee!"

I think we've ALL had this particular pleasure! Mine was a store-bought in a very easy hiding spot--and of course it was driving me nuts, since every time I went looking, within 2 weeks someone would log a find. It was taunting me! Boxes like this are frustrating, because you know you're misinterpreting the clues, but it's hard to step out of your own head & get a different perspective.
Re: Show Finds
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817975 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 6:03am
Thread (disabled) Board
Oh good grief. I am probably going to regret not walking away from the keyboard but... It's time to set the record straight.

I initially received three find reports within a minute (maybe two) of each other. The first reports were "n/a", and the last was "found". I have since exchanged several emails with Frenchie. The first that I wrote in response to these "update reports" were to ask where he was looking and offer help/hints. I was told "no hints".

Yesterday, I received 3 messages via AQMail from him, each more openly than the previous accusing me of changing his logbook. Each of which I replied to, reassuring him that I did not do so. And reassuring him that the box was where it was supposed to be. (to be sure, I even checked on the box last night before dinner)

Now, I see this thread about this whole subject. And, this morning, the claim that:
Both the owner and I have previously communicated via email as the owner wanted to know why I selected N/A when the Lbox is "available" where hidden.

No, I did not say any such thing. As far as I know, "n/a" would be the right thing to chose in this situation, because the box was not found but no signs that it is/was gone were found either. As far as I'm concerned, even a "missing" report would be perfectly acceptable, if that's what the LB-er wants in his logbook for this box.

Could one of the powers-that-be help Frenchie change his find report to whatever will put this whole thing to rest?

After being accused of dishonesty and being talked about behind my back (with misinformation), and after several emails saying basically the same thing, I'm done and need to step away from my email and this thread.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817887 by JampersandJ
Dec 1, 2013 6:53am
Thread (disabled) Board
I always interpreted "N/A" as not applicable, meaning I wanted to make some sort of comment about the box, like "the bridge was gone, so I couldn't finish the clues" (does not fit into the "find" or "I am pretty sure it is missing" category).

Perhaps, one reason why N/A may not be listed with usage explanation in AQs Glossary is because "N/A" is open to different interpretation.

It's possible the reason my choice of N/A is shown as "Found" (a green check mark) is because in order for it to be deemed as "Not Acceptable" it first has to be "Found" by the searcher.

Apparently it may be OK for the reporting finder may choose "N/A" if they have good reason to believe any of the following:

1) Lbox location is Not Acceptable as found
2) Lbox container is Not Acceptable as found
3) Lbox contents are Not Acceptable as found
4) Lbox clue is Not Acceptable (misleading, inaccurate)

On the other hand the owner of the Lb may interpret a recorded "N/A" as meaning "Not Available." Implying the Lb was temporarily removed (hopefully not moved or stolen) by another Lber for logging-stamping and therefore "Not Available" for the next Lber to record their find.

Because "Attempted" is no longer a choice option for "Record/Find" (and not explained in AQ Glossary) I chose "N/A" to mean "Numerous Attempts." However, I've been informed that when selecting "N/A" it's apparently recorded on the owners list of plants with a green check mark indicating that particular owners Lb was "Found" by me (even though it wasn't).

Removing "Attempted" as an option has resulted in some confusion and consequently hard feelings toward me because of a misunderstanding by the owner. One reason why "N/A" may not be listed with sufficient explanation in AQs Glossary is because "N/A" (Not Applicable) is open to different interpretation. Removing "Attempted" as an option has not been helpful.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818020 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 6:57am
Thread (disabled) Board
when selecting "N/A" it's apparently recorded on the owners list of plants with a green check mark indicating that particular owners Lb was "Found" by me (even though it wasn't).

No. Again, N/A is what you chose when you don't want to do anything with a box. It doesn't log a find and it doesn't log an attempt. You must have accidentally logged a find (the page does default to having found selected). N/A does not add/drop finds and it does not affect the status of the box.

Unless you also leave a comment, the owner won't even know that you're even submitting the form if you select N/A.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818020 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 8:25am
Thread (disabled) Board
Apparently it may be OK for the reporting finder may choose "N/A" if they have good reason to believe any of the following:

1) Lbox location is Not Acceptable as found
2) Lbox container is Not Acceptable as found
3) Lbox contents are Not Acceptable as found
4) Lbox clue is Not Acceptable (misleading, inaccurate)

Oh, good grief. I hate my job sometimes.... I can't even reply to this. =)

If anyone feels sorry for me right now, please hit the hug button!

-- Ryan
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818054 by Green Tortuga
Dec 1, 2013 8:41am
Thread (disabled) Board
I can't even reply to this. =)

Well, I can--but didn't send the post after all. Just spent some time thinking of other phrases that NA could stand for that are applicable in this case, but this is a family site, so . . .
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818054 by Green Tortuga
Dec 1, 2013 8:56am
Thread (disabled) Board
Not all letterboxing sites are for all letterboxers.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818054 by Green Tortuga
Dec 1, 2013 9:18am
Thread (disabled) Board
I can't even reply to this. =)

{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}

N/A (not applicable) is there if you want to leave a comment without logging a find or an attempt.

Attempt was changed to (might be) Missing: To clarify, you believe you looked in the correct location but did not find the letterbox because some people were logging attempts when they didn't even get to the location for some reason.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818020 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 9:38am
Thread (disabled) Board
Have you ever filled out a survey?

Was 'N/A' an option?

Did you have any confusion about what it meant?

If your answers are 'yes', 'yes' and 'no' then please stop posting on this pointless thread and topic.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817893 by Aiphid
Dec 1, 2013 10:17am
Thread (disabled) Board
I actually use it regularly when I wish to contact a letterboxer regarding their box but do not need to list a find one way or another.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818020 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 10:23am
Thread (disabled) Board
I do not think that means what you think that means!
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817893 by Aiphid
Dec 1, 2013 10:47am
Thread (disabled) Board
It's questionable whether "N/A" is even necessary.

Sometimes I'll log a find then decide I want to add a comment. N/A is useful for that.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #817890 by WiseOldOwl
Dec 1, 2013 11:42am
Thread (disabled) Board
Have you asked the owner for an extra clue? I see that she's recently checked on the box & that all is well.

After striking out with 3 different attempts over 3 months (the last in November), I showed a copy of the clue -- http://www.atlasquest.com/boxes/clue/?gBoxId=184637 -- to the senior employee. I'm a regular customer and acquainted with the senior employee of this Axman Surplus store. You'd like to believe that a 300+ word clue is sufficient enough without the need for any additional hint. However, he couldn't make any sense out of the clue. He told me that there are no "golf" clubs, no type of "x-ray" apparatus and no transmitting receiving apparatus exists in the store used for this kind of military clue jargon. To the best of his remembrance such communication apparatus of any kind has never existed in this Axman Surplus store since his years of employment.

Frankly, I'm really, really frustrated that I wasn't able to find this Lbox. BuncoQueen found it on October 22nd within a few days of one of my 3 attempts, so in good faith I couldn't report is as "Missing." Part of my frustration is that "N/A" is not even included in AQs Glossary -- implying that its interpretation is rather ambiguous. It would be helpful if N/A was adequately defined, perhaps as "Not Acceptable" for reasons previously listed. The following are generally accepted meanings of N/A.

n/a or N/A is a common abbreviation in tables and lists for not applicable, not available or no answer. It is used to indicate when information in a certain table cell is not provided, either because it does not apply to a particular case in question or because the answer is not available.

--also--

A commonly used abbreviation in the English language for entering nothing in a form or table field because no data are relevant to the situation.

--also--

"It doesn't pertain to you" --also-- "something doesn't apply or is irrelevant in a particular case" --also-- "It means that it is not involved in the situation you are discussing. Has nothing to do with it."

I hope Ryan sees the need for the inclusion and application of "N/A" in AQs Glossary as it pertains to its purposeful Lboxing usage.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 11:49am
Thread (disabled) Board
is not even included in AQs Glossary -- implying that its interpretation is rather ambiguous.

I think it's not included because it's not ambiguous and it's not a letterboxing term.

It would be helpful if N/A was adequately defined, perhaps as "Not Acceptable" for reasons previously listed.

No. Redefining it to something that it is not would not be useful. At all.

All of the definitions that you included mare valid and have nothing to do with acceptability.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 11:49am
Thread (disabled) Board
I noticed that 'found' is also not in the glossary. Could we have some clarification/definition in case some letterboxers become confused as to what constitutes a find?
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818093 by Summerfun
Dec 1, 2013 11:53am
Thread (disabled) Board
N/A is useful for that.

Yes, there are a bunch of situations where N/A is useful, but more important than being useful it's a necessary option when you're not logging a find or attempt on a box.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 11:55am
Thread (disabled) Board
You must be great at making balloon animals as I've been following every twist you have on the old N/A selection. It really hasn't had to be defined up until this point.

Feel free to read into that any way you wish.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 12:05pm
Thread (disabled) Board
So wait... let me get this straight...
It says SPECIFICALLY in the clues:
Planted with permission but please do not ask the staff for help.

And then:
I showed a copy of the clue to the senior employee.

Yes, I can see how "do not ask the staff" is every BIT as ambiguous as the (apparently) confusing "N/A".

At this point, I would like to point out the following AQ requirement:
http://www.atlasquest.com/about/wiki/question.html?gWikiId=99

Perhaps you should bring responsible adult along with you next time you go letterboxing. It might save everyone a bit of confusion.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 12:06pm
Thread (disabled) Board
You'd like to believe that a 300+ word clue is sufficient enough without the need for any additional hint. However, he couldn't make any sense out of the clue. He told me that there are no "golf" clubs, no type of "x-ray" apparatus and no transmitting receiving apparatus exists in the store used for this kind of military clue jargon. To the best of his remembrance such communication apparatus of any kind has never existed in this Axman Surplus store since his years of employment.

Lol! You had me going there for a moment. Now I know we're all really just down the rabbit hole.

Dead Lemurs, anyone?
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818119 by wassamatta u
Dec 1, 2013 12:26pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Perhaps you should ....

Frenchie is responsible enough to (still) be married, and hopefully for a long time. While I agee with the first part of your post, the last two paragraphs were over the line. As a new letterboxer (14 finds) we should be more encouraging to new letterboxers like Frenchie.

N/A is a common abbreviation which has been defined before in this thread. This thread is definitely a dead lemur that has been run over to many times. It needs to be removed from the road and buried.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818128 by Oberon_Kenobi
Dec 1, 2013 12:57pm
Thread (disabled) Board
the last two paragraphs were over the line. As a new letterboxer (14 finds) we should be more encouraging to new letterboxers like Frenchie.

A few years ago, I would probably have agreed with you.
However, time after time, we get people who, no matter HOW many times you answer their questions, still keep arguing and asking the same thing over and over, presumably hoping for a different response. Half a dozen experienced people have provided lucid, thoughtful, correct responses. Experience (and yes, I have been on these boards for a LOOONG time, and am subscribed to EVERY public board) has shown me that such people cause a lot of grief and headaches for Admins. Most of the time, people don't see it - we get emails and messages and "flagged" posts - and we end up having to monitor troublemakers (though they NEVER think of themselves as "troublemakers"). Yes, this is a newbie. Better to deal with the situation via a little lighthearted "snark" now, than have to monitor/disable/ban later.

Of course... the possibility exists that we are all being Pranked by some old-timer just trying to push buttons. The "the store has no Golf equipment" statement is rather suspect, to me, of someone jerking our collective Adminny chains. If so, then it has been exceedingly well hidden and, admittedly, well played, because we have been most thoroughly duped.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818132 by wassamatta u
Dec 1, 2013 1:23pm
Thread (disabled) Board
The "the store has no Golf equipment" statement is rather suspect, to me, of someone jerking our collective Adminny chains.

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking all along. Just trying to figure out who. And we're definitely being trolled!
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 2:06pm
Thread (disabled) Board
I've been reading the thread but only casually. I had to comment on this post.

However, he couldn't make any sense out of the clue. He told me that there are no "golf" clubs, no type of "x-ray" apparatus and no transmitting receiving apparatus exists in the store used for this kind of military clue jargon.

I read the clue and I can already tell that the clue writer never intended for you to find anything relating to golf or xray. I don't want to give anything away since it isn't my clue, but in this particular case, remember it is a clue and not directions. I'll leave it at that. The box owner specifically stated in the clue, "(If you have trouble finding it, I'd be glad to help. Just let me know.)" so I would recommend emailing her. Her last login was today so I would think you'd get a pretty quick response.

Part of my frustration is that "N/A" is not even included in AQs Glossary -- implying that its interpretation is rather ambiguous. It would be helpful if N/A was adequately defined, perhaps as "Not Acceptable" for reasons previously listed. The following are generally accepted meanings of N/A.

It actually is defined. Not in the AQ glossary but personally I don't see the need to add something to the AQ glossary that's already on dictionary.com where it states, "no account; not applicable." I would assume that the only reason to add it to the AQ glossary is in a case where it doesn't mean what people would think it should mean, as defined by the dictionary. For instance, SPOR is added to the glossary because in a letterboxing reference, they do not usually mean a fungus.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818132 by wassamatta u
Dec 1, 2013 2:27pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Actually, it is quite clear that this is someone deliberately yanking chains and not a newbie. If this "newbie" had really only had an account since September, they would have no frame of reference to use the phrase:

Because "Attempted" is no longer a choice option for "Record/Find"

This is clearly someone trying to dig up a VERY old debate under the guise of inexperience and stupidity. It belonged on the Dead Lemurs board 24 hours ago with Frenchie's 2nd post.

K
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818151 by Kelsung
Dec 1, 2013 2:45pm
Thread (disabled) Board
This is clearly someone trying to dig up a VERY old debate under the guise of inexperience and stupidity. It belonged on the Dead Lemurs board 24 hours ago with Frenchie's 2nd post.

That makes me feel a lot better, Kelsung. I was really getting worried that there was a letterboxer out there who was really that....um..., I'll just call it "clueless."

Such a farcical debate has no place here.
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818132 by wassamatta u
Dec 1, 2013 3:48pm
Thread (disabled) Board
This isn't the first day of April, is it?
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 1, 2013 5:14pm
Thread (disabled) Board
It would be helpful if N/A was adequately defined, perhaps as "Not Acceptable" for reasons previously listed.

Just for you, you can assume N/A means "Not Acceptable." If you find a letterbox as not acceptable for any reason at all, that's the option you should use. =)

Everyone else.... it still means "Not Applicable." Although I won't complain if more people start using the N/A option to mean Not Acceptable. It's actually a pretty good option compared to the other alternatives people sometimes use for boxes that they feel are not acceptable!

-- Ryan
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818136 by Coyote
Dec 1, 2013 5:16pm
Thread (disabled) Board
And we're definitely being trolled!

Gotta admit, though, as far as trolls go, this one seems relatively benign. =)

-- Ryan
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818176 by Green Tortuga
Dec 1, 2013 7:52pm
Thread (disabled) Board
Apparently not benign to Dame Lac. After rereading her post, I'm actually willing to believe this isn't a troll, but in fact a really stupid person. Either way, I still don't understand how this thread hasn't been moved.

K
Re: Reinstate "Attempted" or redefine "N/A"
Board: Dead Horses, Lemurs, and Kittens!
Reply to: #818109 by Frenchie
Dec 2, 2013 3:15am
Thread (disabled) Board
After striking out with 3 different attempts over 3 months (the last in November), I showed a copy of the clue -- http://www.atlasquest.com/boxes/clue/?gBoxId=184637 -- to the senior employee. I'm a regular customer and acquainted with the senior employee of this Axman Surplus store. You'd like to believe that a 300+ word clue is sufficient enough without the need for any additional hint. However, he couldn't make any sense out of the clue. He told me that there are no "golf" clubs, no type of "x-ray" apparatus and no transmitting receiving apparatus exists in the store used for this kind of military clue jargon. To the best of his remembrance such communication apparatus of any kind has never existed in this Axman Surplus store since his years of employment.

Uh...you're kidding now...right?