So what would you do differently in a password protected online logbook?

The difference is that nobody could read those comments until they had found the box.

My guess is that few people would use it.

Actually, I suspect the idea of a logbookless letterbox could become reasonably popular, enabling far more "urban" hides consisting of a stamp only in a tiny container, or even a stamp sans container. Also, not having a paper log book inside means you care far less about it getting wet.

Whether or not AQ providing a scheme for having an online log book is the way to enable such logbookless letterboxes, I dunno. It sure seems that expecting everyone to host their online log books on their own web sites would be cumbersome. Whether or not simply using the existing comments feature as the sole log book for a logbookless letterbox would be accepted is another question.

Perhaps the whole idea of an online log book needs something else to catch on. Perhaps it also needs some way to "stamp in". Like, perhaps a way to submit a scan of your sig stamp image that appears along with the log entry.

Actually, I suspect the idea of a logbookless letterbox could become reasonably popular, enabling far more "urban" hides consisting of a stamp only in a tiny container, or even a stamp sans container. Also, not having a paper log book inside means you care far less about it getting wet.

Okay I realize I'm from the old school and believe that a Letterbox has a stamp, logbook placed inside a container with clues available.

Taking your idea a bit further why not just have a container with stamp carving materials inside, or better yet list an address where someone could purchase their own carving materials so that then they could carve whatever image that they would like.

Okay these ideas are pretty dumb, so why change the concept of what a letterbox is? Why break what isn't fixed?

Don

I'm also okay with boxes that don't have logbooks for security or practical reasons. If you're going to try planting a box at the Statue of Liberty--probably not a good idea to begin with--but if you go ahead with it anyhow, it's downright stupid to hide a camouflaged box that also includes a logbook. Better to leave just the same in no container at all. At least then if it's found by accident, it's quite obvious it's not a threat. And in high-traffic areas, a proper-sized logbook may not just be practical for hiding.

My favorite boxes are still stamp and logbooks on a scenic hike, BUT I live in the biggest city in NC so I've been learning to plant very, very urban boxes. And I've been having fun doing it.

Initially, I planted all of them with very tiny logbooks. Problems I ran into:
--the containers were still a little larger than I wanted.
--I worried about them being mistaken for something dangerous.
--maintenance on replacing tiny logbooks is really high (they fill up FAST in high traffic areas).
--urban boxes have a higher rate of going missing (for me) which increases maintenance costs when you are constantly including the little logbooks and containers.

In the end, I stripped the highest maintenance and most urban boxes down to just stamps. I even left several of the stamps completely naked with the magnets mounted inside the stamp itsself (doesn't get any smaller and thinner than this!). No mistaking them for anything dangerous if they are found, easier to hide, lower maintenance.

I put it in the clue that there are no logbooks so people can choose to hunt them or not. I think they are pretty fun in some neat locations.

It took me a lot of time to get to this point since I typically make all my logbooks and spend time doing more than just the index card and binder ring kind. I've always considered the logbook part of the character of the box. But for these highly urban boxes, I had to go with what was working best.

magnets mounted inside the stamp

do you mind sharing how to do this? We've got 2 urban plants.......one has a tiny logbok and one has no logbook at all and they are both in containers..........but we've got a few more up our sleeves :o)

I've thought about something similar and would like to see it implemented as well. I think it would be cool to have a password protected logbook as well, but when found it gave an additional clue to a highly valued box or maybe a solution to a clue.

That being said, can't you just do virtually the same thing with a virtual letterbox? Include the passcode in the letterbox and set the image received after as the clue. People will still be able to log their find here and leave comments.

Just a thought,

Leviathan

... so why change the concept of what a letterbox is?

I have only one stamp-only letterbox hide. Why I planted it:

• I didn't know how often I could get to the city (I was thinking maybe once every few years), so I couldn't maintain a logbook properly.
• It's very wheelchair friendly. It could be retrievd without any assistance. I couldn't do that if I had to put the stamp in a box.
• Where it's located, the stamp needs to be flat so it doesn't draw attention to itself.
• The park has plenty of regular letterboxes, I wanted to add something different to the mix.

... so why change the concept of what a letterbox is?

Many times in Urban locations...no logbook is just much more practical. I do always note that information in the clues. Of course I love a logbook, and I have put some in even the tiniest of boxes...but not always. My vote is to each their own. We all choose what to hunt and what not to. Not EVERY box is for EVERY person. We hear this time and time again...and I think this subject is no different.

do you mind sharing how to do this?

Not at all.
I slit the sides of the PZ Kut with an exacto, slid in one of those slim, strong earth magnets and then hot glue gunned the slit closed.
No container needed.

That didn't distort the stamped image? It must have been really slim

That's a really interesting way to include the magnet.
Thanks for the tip, Mama Wolf

CWT
W.

I slit the sides of the PZ Kut with an exacto, slid in one of those slim, strong earth magnets and then hot glue gunned the slit closed.
No container needed.

Half of my brain said that's the way it would have to be done......but the other half said "impossible!". I didn't think that hot glue would hold PZ Kut........you learn something every day on AQ :o) Thank you.

I didn't think that hot glue would hold PZ Kut...

Maybe it does in NC, but don't use it in Utah! Hot glue does NOT work in areas where there are extremes in temperatures. It is too brittle of a glue. You're better off using a flexible glue, such as E-6000.

GJ

Here's what I've done:
I used silicon sealant- it said it could be used on fish tanks. I carved out a notch in the back of the stamp to fit a tiny rare earth magnet. I put some sealant into the notch and pressed the magnet into it. Then I spread the silicone over the back of the stamp and pressed on a sheet magnet, cut to size.

Gorilla glue is also supposed to do a good job of attaching magnet to rubber. But I haven't tried it myself.

Is the glue water-resistant?

The heat of the glue gun seemed to melt the rubber a bit so possibly. Sealing the slit was just an extra measure, though. It worked fine even before it was sealed shut.

That didn't distort the stamped image? It must have been really slim

Yes, very slim.
I also dug a little hole in the interior. The magnet was almost completely unnoticeable. There's a very minor bump on the back of the stamp. No distortion in the stamp image at all.

That's a really interesting way to include the magnet.

And you have been close enough to find that box. Do the Center City Walking Tour in Charlotte some time. ;)

If you mean they had no stamps at all and had the stickers and so called treasures instead, then they are not letterboxes. Whoever is supposedly "teaching" them to box needs a few lessons themselves. And stop "teaching" kids the wrong way.

I'm sure they're learning on LbNA, since that's where they're posted. The one that was hidden without a stamp (just a logbook) is here on AQ.

They certainly aren't traditional geocaches-- they are not set up for trades, nor were coordinates given. The clues were typical letterbox style.

GJ

I have a whole series of urban boxes (Toronto By Subway e.g. http://www.atlasquest.com/showinfo.html?gBoxId=73096) where the magnet/stamp boxes (put together as Lone R described above) have been right outside in the elements for 18 months - right through a Canadian winter. They're just fine.

I used two 1/4 inch rare earth magnets per stamp, and Zapa Dapa Goo II. The real key is finding a piece of metal to which they stick really well. Anything that rusts is no good.

If you mean they had no stamps at all and had the stickers and so called treasures instead, then they are not letterboxes. Whoever is supposedly "teaching" them to box needs a few lessons themselves. And stop "teaching" kids the wrong way.

This really tickled my funny bone. On one hand I posted that many letterboxers believe that it is only a letterbox if it contains a stamp and a logbook inside a container. That seemed to be pooh poohed.
Here is some folks using sticker and other treasures inside a container and that is not considered a letterbox. Well I too believe that it is not a letterbox but obviously this does point out the problem. Once you start deviating from the norm , and I believe we can all say with some certainty that the norm is a stamp and logbook inside a container, it becomes a slippery slope.

Are some folks on this thread teaching the wrong way?

Don

Next time we are down that way we will look for it, for sure... :)

CWT
W.

Here's what I've done:
I used silicon sealant- it said it could be used on fish tanks. I carved out a notch in the back of the stamp to fit a tiny rare earth magnet. I put some sealant into the notch and pressed the magnet into it. Then I spread the silicone over the back of the stamp and pressed on a sheet magnet, cut to size.

Gorilla glue is also supposed to do a good job of attaching magnet to rubber. But I haven't tried it myself.

Just want to give credit where credit is due, the techique was passed on to me by Green Tortuga - he suggested gorilla glue.

In the end, I stripped the highest maintenance and most urban boxes down to just stamps.

I think it would be neat if we could write down a code on the stamp, and then when someone finds the stamp, having that code allows them to log their find online in an electronic logbook, like a password (maybe somehow their signature stamps could even show). The primary purpose of a logbook I think was to prove to others you had been there (they could see your stamp). Knowing the code on the stamp would do the same. You wouldn't know the code unless you had been there.

I slit the sides of the PZ Kut with an exacto, slid in one of those slim, strong earth magnets and then hot glue gunned the slit closed.

A few weeks back, I got through carving a stamp and then found it didn't stamp right -- one area printed too lightly. Come to find out I hadn't used the acetone scrub on it enough, and the surface of the rubber had a slight dip in that area. After carving it's too late for an acetone scrub, but I did manage to repair it. Nearby I made a slit that went under this area. Then I took a tiny -- and I mean tiny -- sliver of rubber left over from the carving and jammed it into the slit. I cut off the remaining portion of the scrap flush, but you can still clearly see where I crammed in this extra bit. It worked perfectly, bringing this dipped area right up level with the rest of the stamp surface so it printed just great.

So, if that works, I simply don't see how you can cram a magnet into a similar slit without causing the stamp to bulge in that area. Unless you actually remove rubber to make space for that magnet.

Actually, I suspect the idea of a logbookless letterbox could become reasonably popular

I couldn't DISagree more. I would have far less knowledge of who found my plants without the logbooks, because most finders don't post their finds online. I'll give you an example:

Yesterday I checked on a box I replaced just four months ago. According to the logbook, since that time it was visited on 17 separate dates, sometimes by groups of 3 or 4 boxers. Out of over 30 different boxers who've stamped into the logbook, 1 logged a find on AQ, 2 logged a find on LbNA, and 3 others logged a find on both. Of those six people, only two actually left a comment

In other words, 80 percent of the people who stamped that logbook did not log their find online. This is a little extreme. I'd say on average it's more like 50/50. But even then, that's significant enough that I highly doubt an online-only logbook would be viable.

Kelsung

The primary purpose of a logbook I think was to prove to others you had been there

No. The point of a hand-carved stamp is that if you have the stamp image it proves you'd been there. The point of the logbook is to leave a record for future boxers and the planter of your adventure. One is something you take with you, the other is something you leave behind.

Kelsung

I couldn't DISagree more. I would have far less knowledge of who found my plants without the logbooks, because most finders don't post their finds online.

Not the same thing. For a regular letterbox, stamping into the log book is what you normally do; logging online is an optional extra. But for a logbookless box, logging into the online log book would be the SOP. So for how many finders you'd expect wouldn't bother, ask yourself how many don't stamp into your paper log books now.

The primary purpose of a logbook I think was to prove to others you had been there

No. The point of a hand-carved stamp is that if you have the stamp image it proves you'd been there.

When you sign a contract, both you and the other party get signed copies of that contract. Same thing is true here: both your log book and the box log book contain proof of your visit.

when someone finds the stamp, having that code allows them to log their find online

Just some of my thoughts.....

Some don't log their finds.
Someone may have "slipped" and let the "code out of the bag".
Some may have intended to log the find on-line but didn't write the code down and forgot it.
Some may not like it.
Some may think that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Me......I would be the the one that missed seeing the info about a "code" and couldn't log it on-line because of my "get it done quick" style. Now what do I do?

Y~K b

Leviathan:

I have a pirate flag series that I did a while ago each box's stamp is the flag of a particular pirate. Each of the 5 boxes has a fact sheet inside about the particular pirate who's flag is featured. You copy the facts down, then solve a virtual letterbox using the facts that were included in the boxes. After the virtual is solved you get the clues to an elaborate bonus box in the congratulatory message. I did this because I put so much time and effort into the bonus box that I think people should have to do some extra work to get it, also I was afraid that it would go missing. So far this series has been very popular and the virtual method has been working great! I personally think this is my best series so far. If you want to see the clues and info go to my logbook under traditional plants and look at my Avast! Series :)

~Captain Raehawk

the techique was passed on to me by Green Tortuga - he suggested gorilla glue.

I've never actually tried gorilla glue before. I'm not sure I'd take my suggestion too seriously. =) I've heard good things about it, but I'm not vouching for it!

-- Ryan